Possible DCA Expansion Themes

[dshimel]

Okay potentially tenuous idea here but how about a development involving Yosemite.

How about you just get in your car and drive 5 hours and see the REAL THING!!!!

Why on earth would anyone want to see a shrunk down, weak imitation when the real thing is a few hours away!?!?!?!?

And, sadly, Grizzly Peak is already a weak imitation of the real thing.

Go see the REAL sequoias. I live in Arizona, but every year I drive out to spend time in Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks.

[ah schucks]

While I appreciate your opinion, I'm going to ignore it. I would not mind if someone mentioned they are Christian, so see no reason anyone should be offended by my mention of my atheism.

I feel the same way but what you mentioned was an exhibit to promote the education against how did you put it "THOSE SILLY RELIGIONS" I did not call athehism silly and I am simply stating that an opinion as such, even fascious does not belong in a group like this, it brings down the levity of good people, religious or otherwise.

Besides I don't need to convience YOU about the importance of educationally based rides. Disney already conceides the point. It was part of Walt's vision of lifting the best elements from the World's Faires, which included educational exhibits. Just because we are moving forward in to the next millenium, we should not abandon the idelogy that Walt started.

[Michelle]

Being a Bay Area girl, I really loathe the "San Francisco" area that is basically a block of houses that don't even look like SF victorians. Cable cars, anyone? As a Big Thunder ride or just transportation; that area is really lacking.

Or how about some Haight Ashbury?

[ModHatter]

Just a friendly reminder...

This is intended as the most non-confrontational thread in the world.

That said... I think Cannery Row was a great example of taking the idea of California Literature and translating it into a theme. I mean, if nothing else, that seems a much more interesting, specific and immersive theme than the generic "Pacific Wharf." Of course, having lived in Steinbeck Country, I have to resist the urge to change the name of the Mision tour to "Tortilla Flats."

Anyhoo, lots of cool ideas so far.

[emz84]

How about you just get in your car and drive 5 hours and see the REAL THING!!!!

Why on earth would anyone want to see a shrunk down, weak imitation when the real thing is a few hours away!?!?!?!?

And, sadly, Grizzly Peak is already a weak imitation of the real thing.

Go see the REAL sequoias. I live in Arizona, but every year I drive out to spend time in Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks.

I have gone and spent time in Yosemite, Kings Canyon and Sequoia parks, in fact on our trips every two years we do make the effort and go and see the parks themselves.

And the same could be said of a lot of DCA, that the real thing is within driving distance - for example the Hollywood backlot springs to mind.

I agree that it is better to go and see the real thing but at the same time isn't DCA supposed to be a microchism of the Golden State?

Grizzly Peaks is one of my fave rides and altho it is a weak imitation it could just have a little resculpturing for those people who fly out to LA and think that is all there is to CA

[ModHatter]

Extreme theme - from Death Valley to the Sierra Nevada

Just curious... are you meaning like an Extreme Sports kind of extreme? DCA already had an X Games event, so if Disney didn't burn any bridges, there could be a sponsorship/partnership?

Of course, if you were being literal about the two extremes, I think that's something Condor Flats could communicate better than it does.

[dshimel]

the same could be said of a lot of DCA, that the real thing is within driving distance - for example the Hollywood backlot springs to mind.

exactly... The whole them of DCA, not just the execution, is the problem.

Fortunatly, Disney is running away from the original theme as fast as budgets will allow.

I agree that it is better to go and see the real thing but at the same time isn't DCA supposed to be a microchism of the Golden State?

Which is why the park has to give away tickets.

[dshimel]

Besides I don't need to convience YOU about the importance of educationally based rides. Disney already conceides the point.

Really.

What is the last "education based" attraction opened in a Disney park?

Once upon a time they built education based rides. Then they realized that they aren't very popular when they open, and are even less popular within a couple years.


Therefore, Disney doesn't build them any more.

[cellarhound]

Now you're just joking... right!?! You have to be!!!

You're just trying to find an idea that is worse than "city-dump-land", right?

Who's going to pay $53 to go to a library/museum? NO ONE!!!!!

It has to be fun!!!! Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun................... and mix in some FUN!

People do NOT go to theme parks to be bored to sleep. If they did, Golden Dreams would be much more popular.

Don't let us be SILLY! Sarcastic monkey boy...

Twain (Celibrated Jumping Frog of Calivaris County, there is nothing more fun than having jumping bullfrogs?)
Stevenson (He made Petrified Forest's cool - Did you know the first time he used a Telephone he was at the Union Hotel in Calistoga California? This is the same guy that wrote... Wow, Treasure Island? Who doesn't like to BE a pirate)
London (The Wolf House in Sonoma? The shack he lived in at the Docks of Oakland CA... The man was a winemaker as well as a literary genius... As well as looked snappy in a Pee-coat... Ahh, the smell of the sea and high adventure...)
Stienbeck (I would love for kids to discover that Lenny comes from Of Mice & Men about two struggling workers in Butte County traveling from Weed to Yuba City durring the depression... Besides who doesn't love Mouse!!!! and hug him and pet him and call him... Mickey...)

It's all in the presentation...

Do you thing this is integrated into the park? No... Is it part of a California Aventure's theme? Yes...

But wait!!!! "Disney does not have an obigation to educate." - Michael Eisner

[ah schucks]

Really. What is the last "education based" attraction opened in a Disney park? Once upon a time they built education based rides. Then they realized that they aren't very popular when they open, and are even less popular within a couple years. Therefore, Disney doesn't build them any more.

They revamped Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln didn't they? Also Innoventions (an educational and informative operation) was opened in the late 90's. Only new rides recently at all have been dark rides (thanks Pressler) Besides when was the last time they opened an original E-class ride either? Tower of Terror is a cloned ride so don't star that bs and Indy was early 90's if memory serves. ....so once upon a time must be just a few years ago.

[cellarhound]

They revamped Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln didn't they? Also Innoventions (an educational and informative operation) was opened in the late 90's. Only new rides recently at all have been dark rides (thanks Pressler) Besides when was the last time they opened an original E-class ride either? Tower of Terror is a cloned ride so don't star that bs and Indy was early 90's if memory serves. ....so once upon a time must be just a few years ago.

One of the things about DCA that gets me is that it functions on the WDW, "Wow, I got a whole heck of a lot of space to work with now to develope an immersive experiance, don't I" mentality... Look at ToT's cheque... Talk about wishfull thinking over kill...

I think a "Backroads" section with a Herbie Car ride would work too... Uncontrollably driving over the extreme rugged landscape... almost falling off the cliffs on Hwy 1... Going around the laguna seca speed track... Wizzing through a ghost town in death valley... Skidding over sections of Lake Tahoe...

[Jspider]

Dshimel remebers my LA expansion great (even if ya dislike it)

anywho I still think the LA expansion would be terrific for keeping the vague "backlot" theme from spreading and infecting the rest of the park as well as representing one of the key areas of California in a very interesting way (of course if you want htat you should read the LA expansion THREAD: http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=271 )

I've also supported expanding the farm theme for a more immersive and educational/exciting experience (http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=1041)

besides that I've always thought that a SanDeigo section could go behind the warf, not sure what exactly to put there but art/history stuff works well and so would marine rides

A Ghost Town section could be well done and could even match the modern feel of the park and we could simply use Pirates type theming to pull you from a modern abandoned ghost town back to the days when it's flourishing, I've just about mapped out the ride idea, maybe I'll make a post on it soon

some of the Zorro ideas are interesting but I dunno, I'm mostly not a big Zorro fan so I really don't want to see a ride with him in it put in the park (sorry Z fans but it doesn't seem to match the "feel")

while in some respects I agree that the California theme is a bit more "bleh" then I'd like I think that Disney should work with it, if they don't I can see the park becoming very conviluted and not making much since, I'm sorry but it's WAY too late to try retheming and reopening the park again, it's just not going to happen

of course I think that you could easily theme attractions to the land rather then the park and if Disney could do a few clever tie ins then thie mermaid darkride would be terrific for the Pier (http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=773)

and would go well when tied in with a lagoon show (http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=798)

[ah schucks]

I rather like the idea of a deserty area- more San Diego based attractions, even going along with something more reflective of our strong heritage and link to Mexico. Maybe an indoor themed roller coaster on the back lot that has to do with Montezuma's Revenge (yes rip of Knotts) with ghost conquestadors and what not.

Or steal some attractions and events from Animal Kingdom and hone in on some of the action from the San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal Park and Seaworld.

Lastly I am still hoping that someone has the guts and glory to clone the Rock and Rollercoaster and put it in the backlot area, it makes so much sense and is wildly popular in Florida. Between that and the Great Movie ride, it would be cool to see the expansion of the Backlot, because its the obvious direction for DCA.

[dshimel]

They revamped Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln didn't they?

Yes, in an attempt to make it less education-y and more fun with hair cuts and flys buzzing and people stomping about....

Also Innoventions (an educational and informative operation) was opened in the late 90's.

You're not serious, are you? 1) Innoventions was added as a way to get sponsor dollars. No one wants to give money just to have their name on an attraction. They will give Disney money IF the product IS the attraction. 2) You're not using the most hated attraction in Disneyland as the example for what kind of new attractions Disney should add... are you?

Only new rides recently at all have been dark rides (thanks Pressler) Besides when was the last time they opened an original E-class ride either?

2003... Mission:Space. A thrill based attraction. There is a small bit of reality, and some interaction, but it isn't education-based like you're talking about.

And, I didn't limit it to ride. I said "education based" ATTRACTION. And why exclud clones?

Let's look at the recent attractions added/being added to Disney parks.

Expidetion Everist.... Thrill
Soarin'... Mo-sim. Reality, but not educational based.
car stunt show
Buzz
Talk to Crush addition to Living Seas
ToT
Snow White show
Pooh
Aladdin show
Mission:Space
Philharmagic
Playhouse Disney
WWTBAM-PI
Bugsland


Oh yeah, you're right.... You don't need to,

"convience YOU about the importance of educationally based rides. Disney already conceides the point."

I can see by all their additions to their parks over the last 4 years that Disney is convinced of the importance of Educationally based rides.

[ah schucks]

Let's look at the recent attractions added/being added to Disney parks.

Lets not look at the Florida parks which operate under a more efficient managements and planning staff and has a large emphasis on education rides.

The revamp on Lincoln, was an attempt to make an education based ride more fun. Education does not preclude fun- that are not opposing themes, so why you are confussing the two is bewildering.

Why do you so loathe education being tied to theme parks? Worried your precious E- ticket rides won't be developed so a bunch of school children might actually get more than a souviner out of there trip to Disneyland.

Other people in this thread have shown signs of support and interest in the intergration of education and entertainment, you seem opposed by set of standards that are neither clear nor follow the Disney model. People can go to crappy theme parks like Knotts or Six Flags and wait in line for roller coaster after roller coaster- they come to Disney for the atmosphere and the variation of rides and attractions...the best things in Disneyland are things fail to notice or check out because they far too busy to stop and open there imagination up to the possibilities that Walt invisioned in all of his films, parks and characters.

[ModHatter]

But back to the TOPIC...

I've been struggling with a concept. Technically, part of it is covered in the Eureka Bay/Gold Rush concept, but seeing as how this is the California Adventure, it seems a shame not to incorporate Sacramento. Is there even anything in the present DCA that represents our capitol?

Unfortunately, it's been years since I've been there, so I don't know what you could really do with it. About the best I can come up with is conflating Sutter's Fort and Sutter's Mill (which is actually out near Coloma). And I know there's a big train museum up there, so if DCA ever gets resort-perimeter transportation, they could get something themed to railroads. But without getting any closer to politics than replica buildings of the capitol building and/or the governor's mansion, what else is there about Sacramento that might translate to a themepark?

[dshimel]

Why do you so loathe education being tied to theme parks? Worried your precious E- ticket rides won't be developed so a bunch of school children might actually get more than a souviner out of there trip to Disneyland.

I don't loath them.

I see that Disney has tried them over and over again, and each time they've tried them, Disney has found that they do not age well.

It is Disney, not me, that has abondoned the idea of the edutainment type ride. I just understand and support the decision for a corporate need to maxamize profits. You maxamize profits by not needing to rebuild the parks every 10-15 years, and that means not building edutainment rides.

This is why Disney tried to turn Tomorrowland into Sci-fi/Space-fantasy land. That is why it is doing thrill rides like Test Track and Mission:Space at Epcot. That is why the land is being "ruined" as many claim with the addition of Soarin'.


Once again, the reality is that the company is owned by institutional investors. Institutional investors are only interested in stock price, which means profits. Profits require you not rebuild the theme park ever 10-15 years. Edutainment rides, time and time again have show they do not age well, needing to be rebuilt or replaced every 10-15 years.

It isn't that I loath them... The rality is that Disney is no longer interested in building them.


What Disney is interested in building is E-Ticket thrill rides and cartoon themed carnie-rides and Pooh quality dark rides. They think that using this formula will allow them to maximize profits.

I think there is still plenty of need for Pirates quality dark rides... especially for DCA, a park with none of these.

I simply agree with Disney that they can't maxamize profits by building edutainment-y dark rides that are unpopular when first opened, and grow ever more unpopular very quickly.

[dshimel]

seeing as how this is the California Adventure, it seems a shame not to incorporate Sacramento. Is there even anything in the present DCA that represents our capitol?

Yeah, we should pick a stupid land theme simply because it fits the stupid park theme.....

NO, no, no, no.... NO!

Stop thinking like Pressler. Stop thinking, "Yeah, that will fit the theme, let's slam that in here." That is what got us "farm" and "ugly-run-down-airport" and "Six Flags Paradise Peir".

Stop thinking like Kevin Yee. Disneyland wasn't a hit becuase of patriotism or national pride... If it was, then DCA would have been a WILD hit with every CA native that had pride and attatchemnt to their state.

Stop thinking "how can we do California better"? The theme is the root cause of ALL of DCA's problems. Boring theme that adds nothing to the rides, boring rides, boring park.



Start thinking like Walt. Where would our guests LOVE to go but CAN'T easily go? What would the love to see, but can't easily see? What would our guests LOVE to do, but can't easily do? What exotic, distant (in time or place), totally awesome setting can we magically transport our guests into? What WAY fun things can we let them experience?

[MegarooFifi]

While I think that it's good to think of possible expansion themes (which, btw, I really like yours ModHatter) I think that DCA's development needs to be focused on the theming (or lack thereof) that they already have. They need to develop the existing "lands" a bit more before they can think of expanding.

However, when or if they do expand, I'm all for a Silicon Valley/Tech area... the only difficult part of that would be the fact that technology changes so quickly, that the area would have to be constantly updating.

I also like the idea of a Gold Rush theme, the only problem is, DL already has something very similar... it's called Frontierland. So, I doubt that would ever fly because of the duplicate theming.

I really like the idea of developing more of the San Francisco Bay Area feel. I think that they could successfully operate a cable car ride (maybe even have it going around the perimeter, like the DLRR). Throw in a bit of Chinatown and I know I would really like it!

I think a Mission/Mexican themed land is badly needed as well. It's such a huge part of Californian history, it's sad that it's reduced to a mission looking winery and a tortilla factory. However, I'm not really sure what types of rides/attractions you could put in there. I'm sure though, with their imaginations, the Disney Imagineers could definitely come up with something quite spectacular.

If they were wanting to be cheap, they could add a Dinosaur themed land (La Brea Tar Pits anyone?) and just steal ideas/rides from WDW.

As for edutainment, I'm all for it. I love those types of attractions... however, after the fiasco that is the tortilla factory, "winery" attraction and the bread bakery, they're going to have to really work (and think through) to make the edutainment attractions entertainment as well. I think that attractions (and rides for that matter) can be both educational and fun, but I think that there's a very fine line between making an attraction work and feeling that it's too educational for a theme park. They'd have to be much more careful this time around...

[Giant Panda]

How about an Inland Empire Land (or is that redundant?). You could have acre after acre of cookie-cutter tract homes and strip malls (each with a Starbucks). The land would be ringed with beautiful snow-peaked mountains that you can't see because of the imagineered smog layer.

The featured attraction would be the Commute of Death, which simulates a typical commute from LA/Orange County to Victorville/Banning/Temecula. The unique feature of this ride is that even with a two-hour queue on opening day, the ride would last longer than the line! Listen to disgruntled talk show hosts and 55-year old hippies playing "classic" rock, get rear-ended by someone on a cell phone, be sideswiped by an SUV-driving Road Rager, go thru a fast-food drive-thru (sponsored by McD's), eat in the car, spill ketchup on your shirt, get stuck in a Caltrans construction job ... good times .......