Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

[Steve DeGaetano]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

I love the Island the only change I would make is reopening the Fort, but it stores Fantasmic stuff so won't happen.

It didn't used to. How were they able to accomplish this before?

[Bruce Bergman]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

It didn't used to. How were they able to accomplish this before?

Before, they had the items stored in the "Backstage" area of TSI, and they use the Fort as a big dressing room fence so it couldn't be seen from the shore what they were doing.

They found the timbers of the fort were rotten and closed it off to the public, and patched it together structurally from the inside. Part of the issue was where they sank the timbers into concrete for foundations, and then tried to seal the rain-water out with more concrete and tar at the bases - which trapped water that only accelerated the rot...

So now they just leave the stuff inside the locked stockade gates. They really need to tear it down and start over with treated timbers (TimberSil or CCA) for the outer walls, and have a seperate (treated) timber frame on the inside to support the building.

--<< Bruce >>--

[Jayce]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

So now they just leave the stuff inside the locked stockade gates. They really need to tear it down and start over with treated timbers (TimberSil or CCA) for the outer walls, and have a seperate (treated) timber frame on the inside to support the building.

--<< Bruce >>--

^ This

[BlAcKoUt510]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

I love TSI. Though I don't always pay it a visit on my trips, it serves a good and fun purpose.

I do wish they'd rebuild that fort already.

[Steve DeGaetano]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

Before, they had the items stored in the "Backstage" area of TSI, and they use the Fort as a big dressing room fence so it couldn't be seen from the shore what they were doing.

That was a rhetorical question there, Bruce.

They really need to tear it down and start over with treated timbers (TimberSil or CCA) for the outer walls, and have a seperate (treated) timber frame on the inside to support the building.

Um...no. The best thing about the fort was that it was authentically constructed, with period details, materials and techniques. A reproduction with Tyvek insulation and a steel subframe (or even treated lumber) simply will not do.

Somehow, the original fort lasted 50 years; I'm sure they could do it again, and this time take better care of the thing.

[Ortizmo2000]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

Or they can work their magic and remove all the pirate crap and turn it back over to Tom and Huck. They need to bring back the teetertotter rock and the mary-go-round rocks and reopen Ft Wilderness.

This.

[DLcub]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

While DLP is fantastic in many ways, their version of Frontierland is not something that I want to see repeated. The whole point of having an accessible island surrounded by a river (as I've understood it) is to offer a peaceful, secluded area where guests can unwind and take in the scenery of the surrounding lands as well as the island itself. To have a loud roller coaster occupy the area instead (in DLP) is a decision I will never understand.

[CoasterMatt]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

You don't hear a lot of it on forums dominated by fans of today's Disney Corp, but what Steve wrote is exactly what many longtime Disneyland guests who loved the ambiance of the riverfront at night feel about Fancrasstic -- an invasion of Las Vegas bombast in the middle of 19-century Americana. From its hordes of picnic-blanket squatters to its ruination of the romance of Disneyland's west side at night, the only thing good about it is when it's not there.

Yeah, that Fantasmic! show is terrible, NOBODY likes it.

In case you didn't notice it, a couple of generations have now grown up with Fantasmic, and cherish it just as much as anything you might be holding on to from your childhood. You just sound like you're bitter that the world (and fun and imagination) have passed you by.

[Steve DeGaetano]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

Yeah, that Fantasmic! show is terrible, NOBODY likes it.

In case you didn't notice it, a couple of generations have now grown up with Fantasmic, and cherish it just as much as anything you might be holding on to from your childhood. You just sound like you're bitter that the world (and fun and imagination) have passed you by.

Yeah...right.

I'd much rather experience an environment where I could actually use my own imagination than sit motionless, passively watching a show where the story is force-fed to me and I don't need to use my imagination at all.

The difference between past generations and today's...Your screen name says it all.

[techskip]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

That was a rhetorical question there, Bruce.

Um...no. The best thing about the fort was that it was authentically constructed, with period details, materials and techniques. A reproduction with Tyvek insulation and a steel subframe (or even treated lumber) simply will not do.

Somehow, the original fort lasted 50 years; I'm sure they could do it again, and this time take better care of the thing.

While I respect you as a friend, I question if modern building codes would allow them to build a fort in that fashion for general public use. This isn't 1955. As Disney has found out MULTIPLE times, when you retrofit or demolish and rebuild you have to comply with modern codes. The Falls at Jungle are a great example of this.

That said I doubt you could even make a period authentic wagon wheel these days without DOSH jumping in.

[Chesire]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

Yeah, that Fantasmic! show is terrible, NOBODY likes it.

In case you didn't notice it, a couple of generations have now grown up with Fantasmic, and cherish it just as much as anything you might be holding on to from your childhood. You just sound like you're bitter that the world (and fun and imagination) have passed you by.

Yea, nobody likes Fantasmic, people just like to sit in the cold for two hours in front of Rivers of America cause they don't like Fantasmic.

[DARTH MAUL]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

This, of course, would require the removal of Fantascrap!, another move which would be in the right direction for this area of the park. Las Vegas shows don't belong in DL.

you have GOT to be kidding

[techskip]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

F! stay or go I could care less either way. The island was a LOT more realistic before the installation, but some would argue that the "improvements" also prevented possible drownings. Fantasmic is a fun show, and it really captures the "magic" of Disneyland. It has contributed to countless family memories, becoming a tradition for many on vacation. Few things compare to the wonder in a child's eyes when they see the dragon for the first time.

At the same time when F! is dark, one honestly appreciates the tranquil quiet of the big river. Whether by train, or by boat, the scenery and sounds offer a brief trip back into history, even if only for a moment. Suddenly life slows down, the puff of steam, the creak of timbers, the clank of the tracks and the sounds of splashing water all invite you to finally relax and simply take in the experience. When F! is dark you feel that void, but you don't necessarily miss it.

[4th Gen Disney Fan]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

As others have mentioned, the only "change" should be reverting the island back to its original Missouri frontier glory, by reproducing the fort complete with rifles in the block houses, the escape tunnel, and a snack bar selling dill pickles and beef jerky. All references to the outlandishly-misplaced pirates should be scrubbed into oblivion. Teeter-totter rock and the merry-go-round rocks should be returned.

Oh, and while we're at it, lets get that silly stage removed, and get that part of the island back to its original state with the working grist mill. This, of course, would require the removal of Fantascrap!, another move which would be in the right direction for this area of the park. Las Vegas shows don't belong in DL.

I happen to live in Missouri. Tom Sawyer's island doesn't look like anything I have ever seen in this great state. The (simulated) rocks are totally different for one. I understand what you are trying to say about bringing back the past experience, and I agree with that, but please don't compare it to Missouri. If this was the look they were going for then they failed miserably.

I really hope that you were being sarcastic in your remarks regarding Fantasmic! I have been a fan of this show since the beginning, and I know my kids enjoyed every minute of their 6 viewings on our last trip. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, of course.

[penguinsoda]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

Yeah, that Fantasmic! show is terrible, NOBODY likes it.

In case you didn't notice it, a couple of generations have now grown up with Fantasmic, and cherish it just as much as anything you might be holding on to from your childhood. You just sound like you're bitter that the world (and fun and imagination) have passed you by.

Well if you want to be specific, a generation is defined as anywhere from 20-25 years, depending on what source you access. Fantasmic has been around for just over 20 years so a "couple of generations" from a technical standpoint is not valid.

Be that as it may.... just because people have grown up with Fantasmic, doesn't mean that everyone under the age of say.... 40 LOVES the show. It sounds like you are attempting to make a blanket statement as to who and how many people like Fantasmic. Just because one "grows up with something" does not necessarily equate to them automatically liking something.

People from all ages and all walks of life both like and dislike Fantasmic. Is it still a popular show? Well if the "acres" (sarcasm) of blankets laid out hours before the show are any indication then yes.... its still popular. But for everyone who sits on those blankets and loves the show there is someone who could care less about it. If you love the show... great!! If you don't... great!!!

I saw Fantasmic the very first year it opened. I sat on the grass across from the island (there was a section of grass back then that has since been removed for the flow of traffic), and I remember enjoying it greatly. I still enjoy some parts of it.

But not enough to sit on the ground for hours waiting for it. The area was never designed to be a "stage" for a presentation for hundreds of people. It just wasn't. I haven't seen F! in its entirety in years not because I dislike the show per se, but because I refuse to either sit for hours waiting for it (its just not worth it) or stand and try to see over the heads of people in front of me for what while its a nice show, is not worth the time and effort when I could be doing something else.

What I really miss? Being able to ride the Twain around the river at night. Its just a beautiful, peaceful thing to be able to do. I agree with techskip, that the area especially at night without F! is a wonderful area of the park to relax, and forget the real world on the outside without the sensory overload of the show and the people clogging the walkway waiting for it.

As for TSI... I'm not sure what I would do to fix it. Maybe the first thing I would do is get rid of No Child Left Behind, so instead of teaching kids to pass a standardized test, they could actually teach some culture and creative works of literature, so that kids now days actually know who Mark Twain and Tom Sawyer are. And while we're at it, how about teaching them some of the great American folk lore/stories like Paul Bunyon and Johnny Appleseed.... it could be themed to actual American history, when kids had imaginations and could think for themselves and didn't need computer games, and tv and smart phones to be entertained.

[4th Gen Disney Fan]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

Well if you want to be specific, a generation is defined as anywhere from 20-25 years, depending on what source you access. Fantasmic has been around for just over 20 years so a "couple of generations" from a technical standpoint is not valid.

By your own definition, the poster is in fact, correct. 20-25 years vs. just over 20 years certainly qualifies. I was a preteen when the attraction premiered and my own children certainly enjoyed it as well. Probably more than I do. That's 2 generation right there who have cherished memories of this show.

Semantics aside, I think it's more than fair to say that the vast majority of park visitors truly look forward to seeing the show. They certainly don't want to see it removed. The longevity of the attraction speaks to this. 20+ years later and still going strong.

[penguinsoda]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

A single generation is 20-25 years. A couple means 2. Therefore a couple of generations would be a minimum of 40 years. A couple of generations is what was stated, which would be by definition 40-50 years and since F! has only been around for 20 years, it has only been around for a single generation... but that is semantics and in reality has little to do with the original question or basis of the thread so I won't derail it any further. I was just pointing out what happens when you make blanket statement and sweeping generalizations.

[4th Gen Disney Fan]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

A single generation is 20-25 years. A couple means 2. Therefore a couple of generations would be a minimum of 40 years. A couple of generations is what was stated, which would be by definition 40-50 years and since F! has only been around for 20 years, it has only been around for a single generation... but that is semantics and in reality has little to do with the original question or basis of the thread so I won't derail it any further. I was just pointing out what happens when you make blanket statement and sweeping generalizations.

There are so many things wrong with your definition of a generation I don't even know when to begin, so I won't. I'll stick to the points you made in your previous post.

I don't see how anyone made any kind of blanket statement at all. Saying that there are a lot of people who cherish memories of the attraction as much as you cherish other memories from your childhood is not a blanket statement. It's a fact. To say otherwise would be to say that you cherish nothing from your own childhood.

There seems to be a general vibe of elitism or entitlement present on this board currently. Anyone that expresses a point of view that differs from the DLR Regulars is immediately cast aside and dismissed as making "blanket statements" or "fallacies". This is apparent in the tone of multiple threads currently up on this board.

I don't get the hate for the show at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to give the perception that folks that camp out for the show are somehow "clogging up the walkways" and "wasting their time" is certainly counter to the opinion of most people who have seen the show. I would bet my last dollar that the overwhelming majority of people who have seen it would like to see it again. That's why the show has run for so long and they have invested so much money into refurbs. People love this show. There are others who come to the park just to see it and then leave. I don't think they consider it a waste of time.

CoasterMatt didn't say that everyone likes the show, He made a very general comment. As you said, if you like it, fine. If you don't, that's fine too. But to imply that people who are willing to camp out to see it are wasting their time is a really harsh thing to say.

[Mouser172]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

I like the bambi idea. They really need to do something with that real estate. It's pretty lame as is.

[calsig31]

Re: Tom Sawyer Island - Time for a Change

They really need to do something with that real estate. It's pretty lame as is.

It wasn't before they desecrated it with the out of place pirate theme.