Your Forgetting, It Started With A MOUSE!

[Derekuda]

After reading alot of articals on these boards, I have come to the conclusion that you have all forgot walts idea. That it all started with a mouse. Alot of people on these boards keep complaining that they don't want any more rides to be "Pixared" or to have "annimation themes". Well if that be the case, then Disney might not have ever been created if you were all in charge. Disney started the company with, (gasp) ANNIMATION!, and a small mouse named Mickey. And all of disneys themes of Dreams and Imagination can all be achied thruout annimation.

I think the way that alot of new rides and attractions are being overlayed with new and current disney charecters is smart, because Disney is targeting their future fanbase (your children, the next generation). When Disney was targeting us they used Beauty and the beast and such. It all depends what era you were born.
I know all the classic disney charecters can be applied to the current upcoming generation as well, but if Disney never came out with new themes and attractions then Disney would become stale. Kids don't always like what parents like.
Take older cars for example. Kids don't love old hot rods that you love, they love fast and new sports cars, but then later in life they learn to appriciate and love the older stuff. But it just takes time.

I think Disney knows what they are doing. And if they don't or make a mistake, then Disney fans like US will be around to tell Disney to change. Disney loves and listens to their fans.

Derek =]

[Ghostbuster626]

Im affraid Disney DOES NOT know what they are doing. Walt Disney, Frank Wells, and Matt Ouiment knew/knows what their doing, people like Eisner/pressler do not. It goes by who calls the shots and right now for the most part the people calling the shots dont know what their doing.

[ksejr1]

I think your right. Mr. Disney created the park for children and families. Of course there might be some things that I dont agree with, I still think having movie themed rides is great. But they need to get rid of the one's that kids dont know about. Like Mr. toads wild ride, get rid of that one and put something else. I know it's been there from the very begining, but hey, kids today dont know who mr. toad is.

[ModHatter]

Yes, it started with a mouse. So, show me on a map where Walt built the Mickey Mouse ride.

Walt, in fact, built four original lands and Main St. USA, pushed for concepts like Liberty Street and Edison Square, actually produced the sub-land known as New Orleans Square, and completely redid Tomorrowland. In all nine of those lands, only one contained animated characters.

To say that Walt and the Disney Company were JUST about animation is to forget Walt's achievements in live action. Why were coonskin caps so popular in the 50s? Disney's Davy Crocket. Disney did everything from live-action features to television and even the True-Life Adventures. Disneyland USED to respect the place that ALL of these elements of the Disney legacy had in Disneyland. And they even acknowledged that new characters, like the Pirates and the residents of the Haunted Mansion, could be created in this magic kingdom.

And let's not forget, it was Eisner who brought non-Disney characters from A Long Time Ago to Tomorrowland. It was Eisner that first made rides with Toons outside Fantasyland. And it was Eisner who built Toon Town, though the only real ride of the land was built around a character Disney didn't even control the rights to.

Walt Disney did indeed know what he was doing. And for a while, his successors did too. Now, instead of creating great rides to draw us to the park, it feels like the powers that be are luring us with Pooh and Pixar to the Edsels of attractions.

[melmel]

I think your right. Mr. Disney created the park for children and families. Of course there might be some things that I dont agree with, I still think having movie themed rides is great. But they need to get rid of the one's that kids dont know about. Like Mr. toads wild ride, get rid of that one and put something else. I know it's been there from the very begining, but hey, kids today dont know who mr. toad is.

Well, psh, kids nowadays BARELY know who Mickey Mouse is. I mean, it's sad, but my little sisters have never seen classic Mickey cartoons! O_O It's really sad, and upsetting, when I take them into the Cinema on Main Street and they ask what those characters are. THey don't even recognize Mickey that way.

[ModHatter]

I think your right. Mr. Disney created the park for children and families. Of course there might be some things that I dont agree with, I still think having movie themed rides is great. But they need to get rid of the one's that kids dont know about. Like Mr. toads wild ride, get rid of that one and put something else. I know it's been there from the very begining, but hey, kids today dont know who mr. toad is.

How many kids know about Uncle Remus?

We can get the Ichabod and Mr. Toad DVD, but when is the last time kids got to see Song of the South? It hasn't been legally available in this country for about 20 years. Still a heck of a ride, even if they did have to violate the theme to put it where it is.

More kids know about Pinocchio and Snow White, and yet more kids ride Toad. Why? Because it's the better ride.

Having a tie-in is fine. Nature's Wonderland, the Mike Fink Keel Boats, Swiss Family Treehouse, even Matterhorn, all had tie-ins to some extent. However, the trend we're seeing is not the creation of great attractions with tie-ins. We're seeing tie-ins that are the sole basis and excuse for attractions. If Disney is going to insist on tie-ins, let's make sure the ride itself would be just as good without one.

[melmel]

We can get the Ichabod and Mr. Toad DVD, but when is the last time kids got to see Song of the South? It hasn't been legally available in this country for about 20 years. Still a heck of a ride, even if they did have to violate the theme to put it where it is.

Song of the South has NEVER been legally available in this country. It's never been released on dvd or video.

[MickeyJCA]

I'm not neccessarily for or against animation-based attractions, but I think it would be wrong to base everything in the parks on animation or a commercial concept (movie, TV show). Animation-based attractions have their place, but so do attractions that come from the creative minds of Imagineering. I love Indiana Jones, Star Tours, Roger Rabbit, etc., and I'm looking forward to the Monsters, Inc. and Nemo additions. But the big draws at the parks (Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, Jungle Cruise, Thunder Mountain) came from a place far away from "let's promote the latest movie."

I think the thing that sets the Disney parks apart from the rest (or at least what used to set them apart --- and may again someday) is the superior storytelling within the attractions. Disneyland should never become a real life, live action commercial for whatever the Disney Company wants to promote.

I recently watched Mary Poppins on DVD, and time and again in the bonus material it was pointed out how the film was Walt's greatest achievement to date. But the "Mary Poppins' Jolly Holiday Adventure" never did materialize at any of the Parks, even though Walt could easily have fastracked it into production. (Yes, Mary Poppins makes a brief appearance in The Great Movie Ride, but she's hardly the star.)

While I'd never try to guess what Walt might or might not have done, it seems to me that he was less interested in promoting his company through his Parks and more interested in providing quality entertainment.

(Oh, BTW, when I taught in in southern California, the 6th graders at my school were required to read "The Wind and the Willows" as part of their classroom experience. Every year, at the end of the year, they took a class trip to Disneyland and each student was required to ride Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and report back on how it compared to the book. So lots of kids DO know who Mr. Toad is.)

[Tom Chaney]

If Disney is going to insist on tie-ins, let's make sure the ride itself would be just as good without one.

Exactly right. Most of Disneyland isn't tied-in to anything except Walt's and the Imagineers' imaginations. You can't blame a large film studio for promoting its products in its own theme park... but just a tie-in isn't sufficient. The original tie-in rides were either associated with proven classics or were rides (like the Matterhorn) that didn't really need the tie-in. If a ride is inspired by or associated with a film, it still needs to be able to stand alone. INDY is fun whether you've seen the movie or not. Tarzan's Treehouse is meaningless if you haven't seen the movie.

[ah schucks]

If we wanna get technical it started with a rabbit that got stolen, but I see what you are saying.

[ModHatter]

Song of the South has NEVER been legally available in this country. It's never been released on dvd or video.

Well, back in the day, they used to have re-issues. As a kid, I was able to see SotS on the big screen, the way it was meant to be seen.

Matter of fact, with how inferior Disney hand-drawn animation has been for a while, it seems like Disney could make more money reissuing its classic features. Let's face it, no matter how misbehaved the child, parents do enjoy taking their children out to a movie. But I digress...

[disneylover4ever]

Song of the South has NEVER been legally available in this country. It's never been released on dvd or video.

Acually I bought it for my mom on dvd last christmas. I am sure it was a bootleg copy but it plays really well

[JiminyCricketFan]

You are right!

The current people who are running Disney have relied on strategic planning, marketing, and MBA's to determine rides and budgets for rides. They only evaluate an attraction on the $$$$ coming in. Many making decisions don't even like amusement parks. Michael Eisner rarely has visited Disneyland even though he is only a freeway trip away. In contrast, Walt Disney had a small studio apartment built there because he practically wanted to sleep at Disneyland! If your heart is in something, then magic happens. Walt designed and improved Disneyland on the basis of what HE liked and disliked. He also talked to guests continually asking what they liked or disliked. He had a passion for the place. That passion is probably not unlike all of us who spend time talking about Disneyland. :o The point is, Walt was not above asking for suggestions from whoever had a good idea. The current management would roll their eyes if an ordinary guest suggested a ride or improvement. I can hear management's response, "What do they know? They don't have the education or training to make those kinds of decisions!" Walt reminded everyone with the statement, "It all started with a mouse," of the humility one should approach all that was created by Disney. Walt knew that is was kind of divine providence that made the magic happen because of a mouse!

[sorceress1986]

But they need to get rid of the one's that kids dont know about. Like Mr. toads wild ride, get rid of that one and put something else. I know it's been there from the very begining, but hey, kids today dont know who mr. toad is.

That helps explain a lot of problems though. It's not that they don't know and don't care, but I think the point a lot of people are trying to make with the "Pixarization" of the park is that classic films like Mr. Toad become forgotten and considered obsolete. It's a bit of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, the company chooses to push certain films and characters, while others just as worthy get left in the dust, and not pixie dust. On the other hand, why don't the parents care enough to show these movies to their kids. It's not like their hard to find!!! This goes right to the point og this thread. It's a social thing. The parents don't do their job in the area of giving thier children perspective on more of the world around them and just hand them whatever is handy so they don't have to bother. Eisner/Pressler make it easy to facilitate this deconstruction of the company.

As to the overall issue, I agre on the end that, yes, it was started by a mouse, and that animation is the pinacle of the company, or at least was. I think the problem for the time being, until Eisner leaves hopefully, is that those who call the shots do not understand the field they work in as an art, something sentimental to so many. Eisner pretends to have that side the Ouimet obviously has, that love for what they have been placed in charge of, but he is merely a businessman, and by NO means an artist.

I also agree that things are tending to be a little one-sided in terms of attractions created of late. But, come on, Pixar is/was the only outlet the company has/had for actully good family movies anymore. Again, Eisner's doing in lack of knowledge. It's just that when something is good (like the pixar movies), he likes to squeeze EVERY last ounce of sincerity out of it until you can't stand to look at the characters without wretching. Like Pooh, the movie itself is so wonderful, but stuff keeps on being shoved in your face. It gets tiresome. Aladdin was the same thing. I'm not a major Aladdin person, but I like it enough. What bugs me is that EVERYTHING became about that one stupid movie, to the point where I call it "stupid" because I don't want to see another cheap-quel, another series continuing it or the Little Mermaid!! Stitch, Beauty & the Beastthe Princesses. I think people are just getting more sensitive to the "at naseum" tactic.

[sorceress1986]

Well, psh, kids nowadays BARELY know who Mickey Mouse is. I mean, it's sad, but my little sisters have never seen classic Mickey cartoons! O_O It's really sad, and upsetting, when I take them into the Cinema on Main Street and they ask what those characters are. THey don't even recognize Mickey that way.

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My point exactly!!! I asked my former roommate is she knew what Splash Mountain was about-no clue! She's a dumb bimbo anyway (sorry, it's true) but, kids just don't know, it's ridiculous!

[sorceress1986]

Song of the South has NEVER been legally available in this country. It's never been released on dvd or video.

Yes, it has. A friend of mine has it. His brother loves it

[winniepooh]

To me you are basically saying that kids wont enjoy the rides unless there is a cartoon tie in. You make it sound like we are all against family rides. But since when does familyrides mean cartoonrides. A lot of the truly great old rides in the park have no cartoon tie in and still manage to be something the whole family enjoy. While I welcome the addition of any new attraction I dont see why it all has to be pixar, why not something brand spanking new, the way Pirates was back when it opened.

[Witches of Morva]

ORWEN: Now you're singing OUR song, Derekuda, duckling! Us Cauldron girls feel the same way you do! But there are some ducklings out there who DO forget the point Walt and you were trying to make and either deliberately mis-interpret you or would, actually, prefer a park without Disney mythology. Disneyland should and most likely always will be a theme park based on Disney movies--both animated as well as live action.

ORDDU: As long as the attractions are done of high quality, this is what matters most. Winnie the Pooh's attraction, for instance, is NOT of very high quality. As a result, some guests turn against the silly ol' bear, himself, instead of the bean counters and lawyers who prevented this attraction from being as good as the one in Tokyo.

ORWEN: If it HAD been as good as the one in Tokyo, Winnie the Pooh wouldn't be so maligned by others. (sigh) As it is, the real culprits behind the scenes are the one's who deserve to be flogged.

ORDDU: My sisters and I also have a problem with non-Disney movies being inserted into a Disney theme park--such as Indiana Jones--regardless of how wonderful the attraction is. We realize this was done because Michael Eisner came from Paramount and pushed to have this block buster movie inside Disneyland. But if you're to remain faithful to all things Disney, attractions should actually be based on Disney movies, only.

ORWEN: Some of us still haven't forgotten that it all started with a mouse!