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  • 2/7: Bad Habits

    Kevin takes a look at DisneyWorld's latest offering, Habit Hereos at Epcot. Discuss it here...

    DIRECT ARTICLE LINK: Bad Habits - MiceAge.com
    "Politics is the profession whereby the inevitable is made to seem a great human achievement" - Quentin Crisp

  • #2
    Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

    Mixed feelings about Fast Pass enforcement.

    My biggest gripe is when we show up for the Fast Pass and the return time is two hours later... what are we supposed to do during that time? We could walk to the next attraction... wait in line and ride... and then when we get out of that building, there's not enough time left to head to a third attraction and clear the line and walk back before the reserved Fast Pass time. You always end up with 35-40 minute gap... so rather than wasting that time, we've headed to the third attraction and ended up getting back to our Fast Pass reservation about an hour late. We've actually found the Fast Pass system adds additional walking back and forth time and so the result is you don't save "time" but you do save mental tiredness of standing in line. However, it seems we are "forced" to use Fast Pass for Soarin', "Space Mountain," "Test Track," and a few other attractions.

    Not to hijack the thread, but a few weeks ago, we noticed a troubling trend. EVERYBODY was using one of those phone apps that lists wait times. Great in theory!! However, we found ourselves getting frustrated. We would look at the times list and see that "everything" had a long wait. Seemed to dampen our enjoyment knowing this line information at every turn during the day. I think it's a case of too much information is not always good.

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    • #3
      Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

      After walking MILES at any given Disney park, Disney feels the need to have people exercise?? That's not when people need exercise. They need it when they're home and sitting on the couch all day. WDW has always been much more about guilt tripping their guests than Disneyland ever has. This is just another stab.
      "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations, the new needs friends." - Anton Ego

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      • #4
        Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

        I'm not overjoyed that the return times will be enforced, but I can cope; managed it in Paris with their 30 minute window. Feel for the CMs, though. What concerns me about some of the reports/rumours of this next gen stuff is that I fear it's going to go from giving resort guests extra perks, which is fine, to taking from day guests, which is not. And even as the type of planner who bought an UOG to WDW 3 years before a trip, I don't want to think about what time I want to ride Splash Mtn 6 months from now.

        A bientot.
        Remember
        What the dormouse said
        Feed your head!

        sigpic

        You've read it; you can't unread it!

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        • #5
          Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

          I don't want to think about what time I want to ride Splash Mtn 6 months from now.
          Very much agree with this. It's sounding like something that sounds good on paper, but putting into practical use? Not so much. The people who DO pay for this will eventually miss the reservation for the attraction and will ultimately feel they were ripped off.
          "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talent, new creations, the new needs friends." - Anton Ego

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          • #6
            Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

            Any form of additional exercise for the average WDW guest is a good thing. Bring on the dancing, full body and all!
            http://twitter.com/wdwprince

            http://youtube.com/wdwprince

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            • #7
              Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

              I've experienced WDW as both a highly-scripted, restaraunt-reserved guest and as a spontaneous let's-just-do-whatever-we-feel-like guest. I enjoyed both experiences. The tight time-line trip was very rewarding, but extremely tiring and a little bit nerve-racking.

              I would be hard pressed to pick a favorite, as both featured different girlfriends experiencing the parks for their first time. But I guess isn't the point of a vacation to relax a bit?

              Maybe I did just pick a favorite. Hmmm..
              Last edited by mickeyandme67; 02-07-2012, 03:18 PM. Reason: spelling!
              Permanecer sentado por favor...

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              • #8
                Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

                I might sound more relaxing and less embarrassing if they had stretching exercises and a pseudo Tai Chi moves. I don't think anyone wants to work up a sweat especially since they have a full day remaining in the park.

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                • #9
                  Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

                  Those of us of a certain age have fond memories of Mad magazine's Spy vs. Spy feature.

                  In Spy vs. Spy, both "sides" increasingly ratcheted-up inane schemes to counter the other side's incremental adjustments to each other.
                  It was obvious, to the reader, how pointless the whole exercise was -- and that's what made it so comical.

                  Increasingly, Walt Disney World is becoming Spy vs. Spy.
                  Instead of being comical, it's pathetic.
                  Far from improving the guest experience, all the tinkering with how to manage the guests -- in order to extract the maximum dollar from them without actually giving them anything in return -- is not only tedious, but infuriating!

                  As a local (typically an annual pass holder), and this applies to any spontaneous day-trip visitor as well, all the "improvements" keep coming at our expense. Disney keeps taking access and value away from many, so they can dole-out what's still left out at a premium to their desired targeted marks (yes marks, no longer guests).

                  I fully expect all these NextGen guest management sleights-of-hand to bring the "magic" of the "free dining"/dining plans (i.e. the destruction of the once wonderful Disney dining experience) to the entire park experience.

                  I let my annual pass expire 14-months ago, as WDW was just not all that much fun anymore. Even still, I assumed I would eventually return after taking a break.
                  After what I've been reading over the past year, I may never go back

                  Without writing a book, I cannot begin to explain to you what a WDW fan I once was!
                  How has Disney -- through their greed and short-term bottom-line management -- managed to so totally alienate an emotionally-invested guest who has spent real money for many years, to the point of walking away angry and disgusted?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

                    Originally posted by BigBobxxx View Post
                    Those of us of a certain age have fond memories of Mad magazine's Spy vs. Spy feature.

                    In Spy vs. Spy, both "sides" increasingly ratcheted-up inane schemes to counter the other side's incremental adjustments to each other.
                    It was obvious, to the reader, how pointless the whole exercise was -- and that's what made it so comical.

                    Increasingly, Walt Disney World is becoming Spy vs. Spy.
                    Instead of being comical, it's pathetic.
                    Far from improving the guest experience, all the tinkering with how to manage the guests -- in order to extract the maximum dollar from them without actually giving them anything in return -- is not only tedious, but infuriating!

                    As a local (typically an annual pass holder), and this applies to any spontaneous day-trip visitor as well, all the "improvements" keep coming at our expense. Disney keeps taking access and value away from many, so they can dole-out what's still left out at a premium to their desired targeted marks (yes marks, no longer guests).

                    I fully expect all these NextGen guest management sleights-of-hand to bring the "magic" of the "free dining"/dining plans (i.e. the destruction of the once wonderful Disney dining experience) to the entire park experience.

                    I let my annual pass expire 14-months ago, as WDW was just not all that much fun anymore. Even still, I assumed I would eventually return after taking a break.
                    After what I've been reading over the past year, I may never go back

                    Without writing a book, I cannot begin to explain to you what a WDW fan I once was!
                    How has Disney -- through their greed and short-term bottom-line management -- managed to so totally alienate an emotionally-invested guest who has spent real money for many years, to the point of walking away angry and disgusted?
                    Well said. As long as Disney continues to rake in cash from the marketing, discounting and packaging of its theme parks on both coasts, it will ignore the increasing number of alienated customers who, quietly or otherwise, are leaving it.
                    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
                    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
                    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

                    - Neil Gabler

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

                      Kevin, I'm still awaiting your long-form critique of FastPass and its logical conclusion to dismantle the system.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

                        I don't think FastPass is perfect (and please note that I've only used it at Disneyland in CA and at Disneyland Paris Resorts), but I think that for the most part it's fine.

                        I do NOT, however, like the sounds of this XPass system. Like another poster said, I don't want to plan my ride on Splash Mountain 6 months in advance. What if the weather forecast is off (and, let's be honest, that happens all the time) and I find it's too cold to ride? I decide not to ride the day of, but I take away a pass that someone else could have used (and it's doubtful that I would ride alone, so there is a whole party of passes to consider). Maybe the Standby line eases up a bit, but those willing to pay premium for the service miss out because my party abandoned their return time. On top of that, my whole party has wasted some of their money as well by paying premium for something ahead of time but I end up not using.

                        There's another thing! Heaven knows there are days where you show up to a park and it's empty. What if you splurge on XPass as a preventative measure, but when you get to the park you find out you didn't need it because wait times are so short? It's not like Disney is going to refund you your money. You're trapped because you were forced to plan out your day months in advance without knowing how reality would actually play out.

                        By leaving Fastpass mostly the way it now is, you can still plan your day on the fly. The once a year visitor doesn't show up to one of the parks at 5 p.m. because that's a waste of their money. They come in the morning, they measure up the crowds, and pick what attractions they want a Fastpass for. And if a ride breaks down, they can still show up to their return time later, no harm done.

                        And here's another thing - I don't think any form of Fastpass should be an added expense. Disney already offers it for free...changing the rules and slapping on a new name doesn't change the intention of the thing. They won't reduce the price of admission over chopping Fastpass out as a given for any guest, will they? They're just going to keep bumping prices up, like they always do.




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                        • #13
                          Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

                          They bemoan the standard teenager of today, who eats too much and does no exercise.
                          And then they tell us we have no imagination.
                          Last edited by ttintagel; 02-09-2012, 10:42 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

                            Last time I was at WDW, I picked up a fastpass in the morning for Mission: Space, but the line was short so son and I got on it. (review: awful carny ride.)

                            Then, we met up with my brother who went golfing that day and gave him the fastpass. (review: he thought the same thing, and he works for Disney.)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 2/7: Bad Habits

                              Wait...

                              Originally posted by Kevin Yee
                              The thing is, the system will FORCE everyone to become ultra-planners, the same way FastPass forced everyone to abandon spontaneity
                              Did I miss something in the last decade.. no one has been able to enjoy the parks with spontaneity since FP came around?

                              It should be pointed out that there are countless people that don't know any better then to just return during the FP window. Where are they crying about how FP ruined their lives and their theme park trip? When in reality most of them praise it.

                              And...
                              Originally posted by Kevin Yee
                              Their parks have Express Pass that is given out to their hotel guests (a small sliver of the overall population inside the park) or upsold to people with money and desire to buy it (an equally small sliver), so in practice their parks have almost no ride reservations, and everyone just waits in the standby line
                              If it's so small - why is the express pass so expensive during peak times? It's crazy expensive. Less we forget UNI has over 750 + 650 + 1000 = 2400 hotel rooms that get free Express pass. Even at only double occupancy, at 4500+ guests a day, or upwards of almost 10,000 people if the hotels were really filled - that's not insignificant for a park that only has a mathematical average of less then 17,000 guests a day.

                              I see far more advertising from USO about SELLING the passes then I do about getting the pass for free. I doubt USO is gonna turn around and act like there is nothing there or its free.

                              And..
                              Originally posted by Kevin Yee
                              For those who think the abuses of “late returning” on the old system clogged up the system, just remember that if they are coming late, that means the line was moving faster earlier in the day during the nominal return time
                              This logic has been debunked in other threads. It's a theory based on sterile uniform conditions that don't exist. The demand load is not uniform and constant throughout the day. Just because Space Mountain was a short wait at 10am does not make your wait at 10pm any shorter because 'less people were in line' at 10am. The number of people that would have been in line between those times is not fixed.


                              The habit heros sounds like something that should have been in WoL. The ability to have enclosed exerpiences like that is one benefit of the restructuring of Innovations.. but I'd still take the open busy vistas of communicore...

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