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Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

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  • mratigan
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    come on

    Leave a comment:


  • Riebi
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Originally posted by Dagobert View Post
    That's unbelievable!!!! That's so typical Disneyland Paris.

    In my opinion Disney should put the consruction of Ratatouille on hold. I know WDSP needs all the help it can get, but all the money should be used to improve the condition of the parks and for CMs to operate ALL attractions EVERY DAY from PARK OPENING to PARK CLOSING. There is no big difference when WDSP doesn't have Ratatouille in the next years, but it makes a big difference in guest experience when every attraction is open.

    ---------- Post added 07-31-2012 at 11:31 AM ----------

    Leave a comment:


  • Dagobert
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Originally posted by Fultimate View Post
    They don't have to build a third theme park. They can. The second theme park was an obligation, but the third one is just a possibility. Instead of a theme park, they can build something else.

    In my views, they'd better build two or three E-tickets in the Disneyland Park (Indiana Jones Adventure, Western River Expedition or Splash Mountain for example) BEFORE considering a third theme park.
    Okay, thanks for the info.

    Due to the current financial situation of ED SCA, I can't see a third park in the next ten years. The existing parks need more attention and I don't mean new rides. Despite all the refurbs there is still so much to do to improve the condition of the parks and rides. AFTER bringing the parks up to Disney standard, they should build new rides in both parks. Indy and Splash Mountain with a different theme would be great for DLP.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fultimate
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Originally posted by Dagobert View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, I think Mr. Gas mentioned in one of the round table discussions that they are working on a new master plan for the resort.

    As for WDSP, it was a big mistake to build it. Back then ED SCA started to make profit, but the contract with the French Government forced them to build another park until 2002. Otherwise they would have lost the land rights. According to the first agreement ED SCA had to built a third park until 2017, but they re-negotiated the contract and now they have time until 2030.

    I hvae never understood why they have reworked the first Disney-MGM Europe Studios Park so much. That park looked fine, at least on the concept arts. They only thing they had to do, was to scale it down.
    They don't have to build a third theme park. They can. The second theme park was an obligation, but the third one is just a possibility. Instead of a theme park, they can build something else.

    In my views, they'd better build two or three E-tickets in the Disneyland Park (Indiana Jones Adventure, Western River Expedition or Splash Mountain for example) BEFORE considering a third theme park.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dagobert
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Originally posted by WDW1971 View Post
    Yes, they could easily bring over some of the attractions from Tokyo Disney Sea or even Soarin'. Disneyland Paris needs to recognize that it takes money to make money.

    WDS was a huge mistake. That was a perfect example of money spent the wrong way. There was no demand for a second park and even if they did have to build a second park, it would have been better to build something small and with good bones rather than banal like we got. Look at how Disney's Hollywood Studios opened: it had 1 ride and 3 shows yet was extremely popular; also it was cheap to build. This success was due to the fact that there was QUALITY present when they built that park. This QUALITY snow balled into further expansions which were necessary because of its popularity. If it was mandated that a park be built where WDS is by 2002, they could have built something small but with quality and expanded it as needed rather than the bare bones park known as WDS.

    If hotel occupancy was a problem, they could have provided cheaper alternatives to building theme parks to keep guests on property more.

    Disneyland Paris needs a master development plan to ensure it can succeed. So far I have seen no indication of planning for the future.
    If I'm not mistaken, I think Mr. Gas mentioned in one of the round table discussions that they are working on a new master plan for the resort.

    As for WDSP, it was a big mistake to build it. Back then ED SCA started to make profit, but the contract with the French Government forced them to build another park until 2002. Otherwise they would have lost the land rights. According to the first agreement ED SCA had to built a third park until 2017, but they re-negotiated the contract and now they have time until 2030.

    I hvae never understood why they have reworked the first Disney-MGM Europe Studios Park so much. That park looked fine, at least on the concept arts. They only thing they had to do, was to scale it down.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hathaway Browne
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    ^Excellent points. I couldn't agree with you more. WDS needs a heckuva lot spending on it, but even a DCA style budget could not adress some of the fundamental issues the park has - ie the hodge-podge left over from the parks early days - such as the odd placement of the ToT.

    Still, trying to be an optimist, it can only go forward from here, so hopefully someone in Burbank decides to get a plan in place. It won't be cheap though, they'd have to hope for the same reception that Cars Land had (or Harry Potter Land as another example) and even then there's still the hotel issue which will still be there long after the 'honeymoon' has ended.

    Leave a comment:


  • WDW1971
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Originally posted by Hathaway Browne View Post
    I do believe it is a governmental requirement that the Resorts operator be a certain percentage French. Similar situation in Hong Kong and Shanghai.

    The news that these two attractions are being partly mothballed is a sad news for the resort, but it surely must highlight that these are not pulling the numbers that justify their opening 7 days a week.
    I know its an argument as old as the hills, but should they consider replacing Autopia? (Not that they could afford it). Just look at how much land it sits on. Plenty of room for a couple of C or D tickets.
    Yes, they could easily bring over some of the attractions from Tokyo Disney Sea or even Soarin'. Disneyland Paris needs to recognize that it takes money to make money.

    WDS was a huge mistake. That was a perfect example of money spent the wrong way. There was no demand for a second park and even if they did have to build a second park, it would have been better to build something small and with good bones rather than banal like we got. Look at how Disney's Hollywood Studios opened: it had 1 ride and 3 shows yet was extremely popular; also it was cheap to build. This success was due to the fact that there was QUALITY present when they built that park. This QUALITY snow balled into further expansions which were necessary because of its popularity. If it was mandated that a park be built where WDS is by 2002, they could have built something small but with quality and expanded it as needed rather than the bare bones park known as WDS.

    If hotel occupancy was a problem, they could have provided cheaper alternatives to building theme parks to keep guests on property more.

    Disneyland Paris needs a master development plan to ensure it can succeed. So far I have seen no indication of planning for the future.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hathaway Browne
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Originally posted by SparkChaser View Post
    Why can't the whole resort be owned by an outside company and do what businesses do in franchising they can use the Disney name but give them a percentage of the profits. That's what they did in Tokyo with the Oriental Land co. I believe.
    I do believe it is a governmental requirement that the Resorts operator be a certain percentage French. Similar situation in Hong Kong and Shanghai.

    The news that these two attractions are being partly mothballed is a sad news for the resort, but it surely must highlight that these are not pulling the numbers that justify their opening 7 days a week.
    I know its an argument as old as the hills, but should they consider replacing Autopia? (Not that they could afford it). Just look at how much land it sits on. Plenty of room for a couple of C or D tickets.

    Leave a comment:


  • andycov
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    !

    Leave a comment:


  • SparkChaser
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Why can't the whole resort be owned by an outside company and do what businesses do in franchising they can use the Disney name but give them a percentage of the profits. That's what they did in Tokyo with the Oriental Land co. I believe.

    See ya walkin' right down the middle of o'l Main Street USA.

    Leave a comment:


  • WesternMouse
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Autopia is incredibly slow and Armageddon is dull. However, paying guests deserve to have the rides open. I've been pricing out a trip for my family this year and since the 20th anniversary celebration started, prices have more than tripled, but they can't find the money to operate their rides? DLP has got some serious issues that are keeping me away.

    Leave a comment:


  • ImagineerJoe
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Nara dreamland, is that you?

    Nah, but this is upsetting. I hate to see this happening! I really hope attendance goes up so they get more money! And I also hope they stop blowing it out on expansions for other parks, when this one hasn't had a huge one nearly as recent as the others.

    Leave a comment:


  • WDW1971
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Just make WDS a seasonal park and DLP a full year park so they do not have to worry about operating costs for a whole park for half a year. Only until they are on better financial standing.

    Leave a comment:


  • nathan detroit
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Originally posted by Fultimate View Post

    Captain EO is now closed for a mysterious reason.
    I don't think the reason is particularly mysterious.....

    Leave a comment:


  • Baby-T
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    If they just hadn't used the numbers from WDW to calculate attendance for DLP, the resort would be fine.

    I'm not sure if it is that easy to form a new company that buys ED SCA, since the French Government is involved and many big banks as well. And under French Law a foreign company is not allowed to own the whole company, that's why they chose that legal structure which gives TWDC the whole control, but the own only 39,8 % of ED SCA.

    Wasn't it a German or a Swiss company that announced the take over, but no one knew anything and then nobody showed up at the press conference?

    Leave a comment:


  • Dagobert
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    You can bet on that!


    If they just hadn't used the numbers from WDW to calculate attendance for DLP, the resort would be fine.

    I'm not sure if it is that easy to form a new company that buys ED SCA, since the French Government is involved and many big banks as well. And under French Law a foreign company is not allowed to own the whole company, that's why they chose that legal structure which gives TWDC the whole control, but the own only 39,8 % of ED SCA.

    Wasn't it a German or a Swiss company that announced the take over, but no one knew anything and then nobody showed up at the press conference?

    Leave a comment:


  • Baby-T
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    That's unbelievable!!!! That's so typical Disneyland Paris.

    In my opinion Disney should put the consruction of Ratatouille on hold. I know WDSP needs all the help it can get, but all the money should be used to improve the condition of the parks and for CMs to operate ALL attractions EVERY DAY from PARK OPENING to PARK CLOSING. There is no big difference when WDSP doesn't have Ratatouille in the next years, but it makes a big difference in guest experience when every attraction is open.
    ED SCA does have a problem with the hotels, but it's a positive one. They need another hotel, either a Deluxe or a Budget hotel, because they need more rooms in these segments. The hotel occupancy rate is very good for Europe.

    You just have to read the Annual Report. The big problem is the debt, because the cash flow isn't bad either, but the debts consume all the money. That's why ED SCA tries to pay back as much as possible currently, just to reduce the interest rate. In my opinion they are doing that in a bad way, because they try to save as much money as possible and that causes inconvenience for guests. If I'm not mistaken they plan to repay €250mio alone this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sir.Mouse
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Reading things like this makes me wonder why Disney is so invested in building international resorts. Once the product is built, it's left there to deteriorate. Doesn't Disney care about quality control?

    Leave a comment:


  • Dagobert
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    That's unbelievable!!!! That's so typical Disneyland Paris.

    In my opinion Disney should put the consruction of Ratatouille on hold. I know WDSP needs all the help it can get, but all the money should be used to improve the condition of the parks and for CMs to operate ALL attractions EVERY DAY from PARK OPENING to PARK CLOSING. There is no big difference when WDSP doesn't have Ratatouille in the next years, but it makes a big difference in guest experience when every attraction is open.

    ---------- Post added 07-31-2012 at 11:31 AM ----------

    Originally posted by WDW1971 View Post
    Wow, now this is depressing. Euro Disney really needs to deliver to it's guests the experiences and quality available in the states. Why would anyone want to go to Disneyland Paris now if you could just as easily go to WDW which offers more to do, nicer hotels, better weather, and beaches close by. It is a shame that Euro Disney cannot provide a product that the Disney name requires.

    Why not just close all of Walt Disney Studios and only open it in the summer mounts. Make it a seasonal park like the rest in Europe while keeping Disneyland Park open all year round. This way they can focus on the main park without keeping the second one running.

    If the hotels are still a problem, how about leasing one or two of them to companies like Marriott or Starwood. In WDW Disney leased to Shades of Green and the Swan and Dolphin. Euro Disney can give these companies a 10 year lease perhaps to operate for example Hotel Santa Fe and Newport Bay Club where Disney still operates Hotel New York, Disneyland Hotel, Sequoia Lodge, and Hotel Cheynee. When they are financially stable, the lease can be terminated and the hotels brought under Disney's ownership again.
    ED SCA does have a problem with the hotels, but it's a positive one. They need another hotel, either a Deluxe or a Budget hotel, because they need more rooms in these segments. The hotel occupancy rate is very good for Europe.

    You just have to read the Annual Report. The big problem is the debt, because the cash flow isn't bad either, but the debts consume all the money. That's why ED SCA tries to pay back as much as possible currently, just to reduce the interest rate. In my opinion they are doing that in a bad way, because they try to save as much money as possible and that causes inconvenience for guests. If I'm not mistaken they plan to repay €250mio alone this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • tloolgb
    replied
    Re: Euro Disney SCA can't afford opening Autopia and Armageddon Special Effects

    Originally posted by WDW1971 View Post
    In WDW Disney leased to Shades of Green and the Swan and Dolphin.
    Not that I am not shocked as well, Disney sold Shades of Green to the US DOD and Swan and Dolphin were never owned by Disney, but built to get out of a lawsuit by Tishman. Just so we're being accurate.

    Leave a comment:

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