[Chat] Disney's America?

[The Forbidden Eye]

I read about Disney's America, a project that failed to get a location twice. The first attempt was near Washington D.C., that was repelled by protestors. Then in 1997, the Knott family announced the plans to sell Knotts Berry Farm. Disney offered to buy the property which would've bring Disney's America to Buena Park. The ghost town and Independence Hall would've been kept with thr Roaring 20's, Fiesta Village and Camp Snoopy being converted into different lands. Out of fear that Disney would eliminate most of Walter Knott brought in to Knotts, it was sold to Cedar Fair, which ironically backfired because Cedar Fair eliminated more than what Disney would've eliminated. And this was just one of the reasons. The other was transportation problems.

So lets say that Disney got Knotts:

1.) Would Disney's America been more succesful than Disney's California Adventure?
2.) Would the Chicken Dinners remain?
3.) How would Disney solved the transportation problem, getting people from the Disneyland Resort to Disney's America?
4.) Would Disney's America be considered the third theme park of the resort even though the property is 10 minutes away from DLR?

[ChessurInWonderland]

Re: Disney's America?

I had never heard of this before. =o Interesting, great post! I love the chicken dinners, my mom picked some up the other day, and also got some biscuits and apple pie. My cats dropped the apple pie and then my dog ate it yesterday morning, so I was just sulking about not getting to eat apple pie when i saw this. :P anyways, back on topic, I wonder if disney wouldve even made DCA if they bought Knott's in 1997?

[The Deadman]

Re: Disney's America?

Disney's America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[JoeCool]

Re: Disney's America?

I read about Disney's America, a project that failed to get a location twice. The first attempt was near Washington D.C., that was repelled by protestors. Then in 1997, the Knott family announced the plans to sell Knotts Berry Farm. Disney offered to buy the property which would've bring Disney's America to Buena Park. The ghost town and Independence Hall would've been kept with thr Roaring 20's, Fiesta Village and Camp Snoopy being converted into different lands. Out of fear that Disney would eliminate most of Walter Knott brought in to Knotts, it was sold to Cedar Fair, which ironically backfired because Cedar Fair eliminated more than what Disney would've eliminated. And this was just one of the reasons. The other was transportation problems.

So lets say that Disney got Knotts:

1.) Would Disney's America been more succesful than Disney's California Adventure?
2.) Would the Chicken Dinners remain?
3.) How would Disney solved the transportation problem, getting people from the Disneyland Resort to Disney's America?
4.) Would Disney's America be considered the third theme park of the resort even though the property is 10 minutes away from DLR?

Nice post. Disney's America was a great idea but was shot down because of all the political and cultural fighting going on in Virginia.

I am not sure if DA would have been more successful than DCA is.

[JohnZ46]

Re: Disney's America?

I read about Disney's America, a project that failed to get a location twice. The first attempt was near Washington D.C., that was repelled by protestors.

Sooo... Disney built a park about California in California, and wanted to build a historic theme park in a state that already has many, many actual historic parks.

Is the Disney corporate culture so repressive that no one will point out the obvious?

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Re: Disney's America?

Another option would have been to build this in the parking lot INSTEAD of DCA.

And didn't they consider this theme as a re- do for DCA before deciding to go the character route with Mermaid, Cars etc.?

[ChessurInWonderland]

Re: Disney's America?

Another option would have been to build this in the parking lot INSTEAD of DCA.

And didn't they consider this theme as a re- do for DCA before deciding to go the character route with Mermaid, Cars etc.?

Are the imagineers new from the ones in 1997, around the time they had ideas for disneys america? Maybe they didnt even consider this idea. Or maybe they just had moved on from that idea. Maybe they thought it wasnt any better than the original DCA.

[Zovreign]

Re: Disney's America?

Is the Disney corporate culture so repressive that no one will point out the obvious?

Back in the 90's Disney corporate was.. "out there"

Different management now that Eisner is gone...

[The Forbidden Eye]

Re: Disney's America?

Nice post. Disney's America was a great idea but was shot down because of all the political and cultural fighting going on in Virginia.

I am not sure if DA would have been more successful than DCA is.

At least DA would've had better themeing than DCA had back in 2001 and would probably had better sucess than DCA.

[PhillyFan89]

Re: Disney's America?

Are the imagineers new from the ones in 1997, around the time they had ideas for disneys america? Maybe they didnt even consider this idea. Or maybe they just had moved on from that idea. Maybe they thought it wasnt any better than the original DCA.

The Imagineer who came up with the concept and designed what would have been Disney's America, Bob Weiss, left Imagineering under the Eisner regime to start his own Theme Park design company. However, once Iger took over and made Lasseter Head Creative in Imagineering, Lasseter personally invited him to come back to Imagineering. Now he is overseeing all of the DCA refurb. So yes I would assume that he may have considered Disney's America before deciding on the Character route, but obviously they must feel that this is the best route to take.

[d.N.d.]

Re: Disney's America?

IMHO...sounds boring kids dont want to go to a park about the history of America and who wants to learn on vacation especially kids. Even the Imagineers said they scrapped it because they were trying to mix history lessons with thrill rides. DA would have taken the same critizicsm as DCA if it was right across the street too. It would have been built on the same budget and reading about the different lands to many of them to have a solid attraction in each.

Glad they did DCA.

[SuburbanGiant]

Re: Disney's America?

IMHO...sounds boring kids dont want to go to a park about the history of America and who wants to learn on vacation especially kids. Even the Imagineers said they scrapped it because they were trying to mix history lessons with thrill rides. DA would have taken the same critizicsm as DCA if it was right across the street too. It would have been built on the same budget and reading about the different lands to many of them to have a solid attraction in each.

Glad they did DCA.

Have you read the Wiki? There are MANY ideas borrowed from Disney's America...

The plans for Disney's America called for nine distinctly themed areas:

• Crossroads USA - A civil war era village that would serve as the hub of Disney's America. Guests would enter under an 1840s era train trestle, which featured antique steam trains that circled the park.

• Native America - A recreation of a Native American village that would have reflected the tribes that were known in that part of the country. Guests would have also enjoyed interactive experiences, exhibits and arts and crafts, as well as a white water river raft ride (Grizzly River Rapids)that travelled throughout the area, based on the Lewis and Clark Expedition.

• Civil War Fort - A Civil War fort (read: playground, like Wilderness Creek Challenge Trail...) would have plunged guests into a more turbulent time of American history, and adjacent to it, a replica battlefield where Civil War re-enactments and water battles between the Monitor and the Merrimac would have once again been fought.

• We The People - Moving into the 20th century, a replica of the Ellis Island building, which acted as the gateway to America for many immigrants in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Guests would have lived the "immigrant experience" through music, ethnic foods and a live show presentation. (Golden Dreams?)

• State Fair - An area that was going to show how even during the Great Depression in the 1930s, Americans knew how to entertain themselves. With folk art exhibits and a live show on baseball, guests could also have enjoyed classic wooden thrill rides reminiscent of Coney Island. (Paradise Pier is screaming at you!)

• Family Farm - A recreation of an authentic farm where guests could have had the opportunity to see different types of farm industries related to food production in addition to some hands-on experiences like milking cows and learning what homemade ice cream tasted like. (Bountiful Farms anyone?)

• President's Square - A celebration of the birth of democracy and those who fought to preserve it. The Hall of Presidents from Magic Kingdom, Walt Disney World would have been moved to this section of Disney's America.

• Enterprise - A mock factory town, it would have highlighted American ingenuity where guests could have ridden a major roller coaster attraction called the "Industrial Revolution", traveling through a 19th century landscape with heavy industry and blast furnaces. And, on either side of the coaster would have been exhibits of famous American technology that defined the American industry in the past, and new developments that would have defined industries in the future. (Sounds a bit like the Wharf to me, minus the coaster...)

• Victory Field - Guests would have experienced what America's soldiers faced in the defense of freedom during the world wars. It would have been themed to resemble an air field with a series of hangars containing attractions based on America's military fight using virtual reality technology(!!!). The air field would have also served as an exhibit area of planes from different periods, as well as a place for major flying exhibitions. Soarin' from Epcot and Disney's California Adventure was originally proposed for this area. (Condor Flats?)
  

[The Forbidden Eye]

Re: Disney's America?

Wow, they way they put in those ideas into DCA is like putting in a ride with a different theme like they did with the Dinosaur attraction in DAK with IJA's ride system.

So Disney's America was in someways similar to what happened to DisneySea that was supposed to be built in Long Beach, but unlike DA, it found it's way to TDL.

[d.N.d.]

Re: Disney's America?

Im not talking about the lands im talking about the concept. I just think a historic park would not be very interesting even if disney had done it.

[The Forbidden Eye]

Re: Disney's America?

Im not talking about the lands im talking about the concept. I just think a historic park would not be very interesting even if disney had done it.

Thats what I think about DCA. The concept of the park is not very intersting but now they are improving it.

[d.N.d.]

Re: Disney's America?

Groover i was also going to point out that while some ideas were taken from the DA concept. They are not what make the bulk of the area. You still have the whole land of Hollywoodland. No to mention that the Pier we have is turn of the century 20th, there concept is 30th century which is not romanced but rather more carny. We have the whole addition of Carsland not mentioned, and Golden Dreams is not around anymore so what would have made DA work?

Pretty much your stating that DA would have been just a disaster as the first years of California Adventure (sorry read on another thread we have to stop calling it DCA :P) therefore it just proves that any concept derived regardless of the parks theme was doomed just like CA.

[The Forbidden Eye]

Re: Disney's America?

Groover i was also going to point out that while some ideas were taken from the DA concept. They are not what make the bulk of the area. You still have the whole land of Hollywoodland. No to mention that the Pier we have is turn of the century 20th, there concept is 30th century which is not romanced but rather more carny. We have the whole addition of Carsland not mentioned, and Golden Dreams is not around anymore so what would have made DA work?

Pretty much your stating that DA would have been just a disaster as the first years of California Adventure (sorry read on another thread we have to stop calling it DCA :P) therefore it just proves that any concept derived regardless of the parks theme was doomed just like CA.

Well actually, the California Adventure Concept would've worked but it was poorly executed by WDI.

Disney's America on the other hand is a concept that would entice historians and Civil War Reenactment groups.

[d.N.d.]

Re: Disney's America?

^ Which make up the bulk of the American and international travellers?
And the same park would have been built by the same WDI team no?

[The Forbidden Eye]

Re: Disney's America?

^ Which make up the bulk of the American and international travellers?
And the same park would have been built by the same WDI team no?

Heres the thing, before DCA there was supposed to be our version of Epcot that was known as Westcot. That was scrapped for some unknown reason and the WDI team then put their best on the concept board. At the same time, Disney's America was being planned.

The California Adventure concept seemed to be rushed as it already failed in the first few months alone. If they had more time to work on the DCA concept like they did with the Westcot and Disney America Concept then it would be a sucess and we would only expect the new Carsland and WOC.

[d.N.d.]

Re: Disney's America?

^Granted. And unfortunately i never paid as much attention to disneyland back then as i do now.

However, im stating that Disney's America from what Groover was stating in showing the relation to California Adventure would have been the same disaster. Time, Money and Budget Cuts cant be speculated only seen when the product is finished. Who knows the same fate could have been for Westcot.

Im just stating that in a comparission of Disneys America and California Adventure i dont think DA would be more sucessful and the idea was scrapped not due to land issues...they had the land across from them. So in regards to the quote in Wiki the imagineers stated they scrapped the idea because of the combination of education and thrill rides.

Therefore, a historic park by Disney, i think would not have been very interesting. At least for CA you have a non historic theme, and i agree with more time and money they could have pulled it off and the 2012 additions would not be lifesavers thrown into the water.

So in a side by side comparission i would pick CA over DA.