[Idea] This is what it means...

[mycroft16]

Honor Hunter has a great article up:
Blue Sky Disney: The Hidden Sea...

If you haven't yet, go read it. This is exactly what the word "story" means. It isn't a plotline, it doesn't have a beginning, middle or end. It is simply the layered and multi-faceted history of a place that makes it feel real.

Disneyland had this sort of thing from the beginning. Rides like the Jungle Cruise have all sorts of layered history in the queue area. Clues and hints to the past of the business. It's never in your face and is probably missed by 90% of guests. They simply don't look and probably don't see it, but if it weren't there, something would be wrong and they'd know it.

This is the kind of "story" that needs to be used again. Richly detailed history. If this building is supposed to look old, why does it look old? What made it look old? Was it the elements? Battles? What kinds of weapons? Was it sun or wind or rain? It's the story of how something got to be the way it is, not a story you read and follow.

Sometime in the 90s, Disney forgot this meaning of story and got sidetracked by plots. Plots don't offer the rich, real world details that make Disney parks magical. A plot isn't what makes BTMRR so amazing. It's the history of a mine that is well crafted and layered without actually every coming out and saying a single word. It's told through the tools laying around, the bits of old and frayed rope, the rusted pulleys and rotting wooden towers.

As much as I enjoy the newer rides, this type of storytelling seems to have been lost and I really truly and dearly hope for its return.

What say you?

[Datameister]

Re: This is what it means...

What say you?

Aye.

[Cuddles McHenry]

Re: This is what it means...

Agreed 100%. Aside from the fact that they remind me of being a kid, Pirates and Mansion are probably my most favorite Disney rides ever. Story. They cant really seem to quite get that aspect down lately. Immersive and believable. While I love ToT, the story seems incidental and doesnt truly have anything to do with what your experiencing ultimately.

[dizzneeland]

Re: This is what it means...

Agreed. And well said.

[sleepyjeff]

Re: This is what it means...

I know I sound like a broken record but so long as Disney continues to treat the park like a cheap all-you-can-eat buffet we shouldn't be surprised when they bring in a clown to entertain on Tuesdays.

Bring back the ticket books!

[Steve DeGaetano]

Re: This is what it means...

Definitely agreed.

The layering upon layering upon layering of detail, to create an experience (which, by definition, involves the guest), instead of framing a story that must be told to us (thereby making us passive), was always Disneyland's hallmark.

[Mr Wiggins]

Re: This is what it means...

What say you?

I say... bingo. You hit the nail smack on the head.

[astrologic]

Re: This is what it means...

Wonderfully said. Now all we can do is hope that someday this form of story returns to us.

[BigThunder]

Re: This is what it means...

You are 100% correct. Disney's got some very smart and creative people, why don't they get this?

[OHSNAPiTSEG]

Re: This is what it means...

Definitely agreed.

The layering upon layering upon layering of detail, to create an experience (which, by definition, involves the guest), instead of framing a story that must be told to us (thereby making us passive), was always Disneyland's hallmark.

Could not agree more --

Read this quote today:

"Happiness is not something really made. It comes from your own actions."

And I guess how that applies is that to really have a fun, memorable experience -- guests can't just be told a story. They have to be immersed in it and feel as if they are part of it. IMO Disney's ability to do so is one of the reasons why I keep coming back for more.

[ttrocc7007]

Re: This is what it means...

I agree whole heartedly, and Steve nailed it down very succinctly.

[Princess Victoria]

Re: This is what it means...

Well said. It seems a lot of newer attractions these days are dumbed down instead of letting the person experiencing it come to their own conclusions and think up their own story based on where they are at and what is going on around them. Basically, the attractions are not given the life they once were. A story doesn't always equal a memorable experience. There are so many other factors that must be key players in making that happen.

[mycroft16]

Re: This is what it means...

A story doesn't always equal a memorable experience.

I really like this line. Everyone has had really great points, but this one really summed up the problem for me. For it to be a memorable experience, I need to feel some kind of a connection with the attraction, on some level. If it is a story that someone else came up with and is ramming down my throat, then I'm most likely not going to connect with it. That story has had to be carefully crafted to appeal to a very general audience, or to a very specific one. In the first case, it will probably feel really watered down and weak. In the second, it's probably not geared at me.

With the way things used to be done, giving the guest and experience and letting them come up with their own understanding of it, anyone could connect with it on any level they wanted to. The attraction meant different things to different people and often changed depending on mood, etc, but EVERYONE could participate in it. It meant that you found new ways to appreciate it as your life experiences changed you as a person rather than being told the same thing over and over again as Steve pointed out.

We have become passive rather than active.

[JerrodDRagon]

Re: This is what it means...

wow its sad to know this is true....We Cars land, Little Mermaid, and Star Tours may have some great Q lines along with a good theme and story for the attractions.

[sediment]

Re: This is what it means...

Disney's got some very smart and creative people, ...

Are you sure about that? Before we wonder why smart and creative people aren't making smart and creative attractions, let's take a step back.

[WestsideCM99]

Re: This is what it means...

And it's not being used today you say?? *sarcasm intended*

What about the story of the Indian tribe who were driven from their native island by the Caribbean Pirates.. the Pirates claimed the island as their own, casting the Indians out to distant shores, desicrating their ancient burial grounds, and flushing the chieftans from their caves.

Jim Bob Boondock, a frontiersman and civil war veteran who made his home on the island was propositioned by the Pirates to help them to design a grand fort that would keep the indians from ever making it back to their home. In return Jim Bob was allowed to continue living peacefully on the west edge of Pirate's Island no longer having to worry about his cabin being torched every night by the wild indian warriors.

But all was not well on the island, the Pirates had secretly been searching for the lengendary "lost gold of Rainbow Ridge" rumored to have fallen deep underground during a disasterous earthquake. When Master Gracey found out about the Pirate's intentions he commissioned an army of american soldiers. Using his own mansion as a makeshift base he waged war with the Pirates, a battle that took six months to end, claming the lives of countless soldiers, Pirates, and ultimately Master Gracey himself as he was found hanging atop his ceiling the day before he was to announce to his army of renagade soldiers that he had ran out of money that he promised to pay them.

In the end the Pirates, having exhausted themselves in their search for gold and having lost countless lives in the war with Gracey's army decided to sail off to the spanish seas where they would have many exciting adventures in their search for booty.

Meanwhile back on the banks of the American rivers life was returning to the war torn area, critters from all over were making the nearby mountains their home, one in particular was barraged by so many cannonballs that it created a series of unnatural underwater caves interconnected to one another with a river flowing through it. It was rumored that all sorts of animals migrated to this mountain (bears, rabbits, possums, and foxes to name a few) and at night as ol' Jim Bob will attest to you can almost hear the sounds of singing coming from that mountain. And then a blustery day came and blew Christopher Robin and all his friends far from Great Britain to the shores of the Mississippi.. something about balloons.. hefalumps and woozles.. and a birthday party..

..some imagination huh?... fireworks, closing theme, Mickey dissapears.

I guess that my point with the story is to show that a) I have way too much down-time at work now and b) if you have enough of an imagination you can find ways to tell a story with almost anything that is thrown at you. However I also wanted to show how much of a painful stretch on the imagination it is now to tell a story about the big cluster eff that was formerly known as "Frontierland".

Added: In bringing up Steve's point earlier in the thread, if almost anyone (including myself) can make up thier own stories, why does Disney insist that they need to impose their stories on us sometimes? Wouldn't it be easier for Disney to do it the traditional way and let the guests, especially children, exercise their imaginations by making up thier own stories based on their own experience in the parks?

[bfdf55]

Re: This is what it means...

Are you sure about that? Before we wonder why smart and creative people aren't making smart and creative attractions, let's take a step back.

Currently, the smart and creative people aren't part of the anointed favorites. They have been pushed aside, lucky to even have anything to do. Those who ARE making dumb and unimaginative attractions are mostly the remnants of the earlier Imagineering management system who still wield the political power there.

While Lasseter came in and reinvigorated creativity over finances, he is loathe to deal with the politics. So he just accepted the powers that continued to hold authority.

[Karalora]

Re: This is what it means...

I think this:

Sometime in the 90s, Disney forgot this meaning of story and got sidetracked by plots.

...is one of the most insightful theories I've seen about the decline that a lot of us long-time park fans have been sensing. I don't know when exactly the change began, but I can point to two rides that illustrate how it has proceeded: The Indiana Jones Adventure and Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin. Both of these are generally agreed to be excellent rides--innovative, immersive, highly themed, and based on popular movies without simply rehashing them.

And yet...the scenarios proposed by the rides are more explicitly spelled out in the queue than those of classics like the Haunted Mansion or Big Thunder. With Indy, we have a pre-show film explaining exactly what's going on, and with Roger an assortment of character voice recordings throughout the queue do the same job. Less is left for the guests to wonder about and try to figure out on their own. In other words, we're being told and not shown, and isn't one of the cardinal rules of good writing "Show, don't tell"?

Disneyland has always put a strong emphasis personalizing each guest's experience, starting with a name stitched on the back of a pair of mouse ears. It seems ironic that management is frantically looking for ways to keep up that tradition when they keep wearing away at one of the big ones: give guests a situation and let them work out the backstory explaining how it came to be. That way, the entire ride is personalized, because they feel they designed part of it themselves.

[QuestionableKri]

Re: This is what it means...

Imo, it depends on the ride you build whether or not having an open story works.
For example, The Haunted Mansion, the openess and mystery works because it's a haunted house. It's filled with 'spooky' things that can't be explained.
And Pirates, all its intended to be is a look through piratey lives and lore. so the openess works there.

But on Indy, you need that kind of set up to get into the mood. 'You're part of this group of adventure/treasure seekers going to this temple, Doc Jones has disappeared inside said temple, and don't look into the eyes of the idol or else you won't return. (the only hint on to what actually will go on inside the ride is really about the mechanics, which is something you need to know. especially if you have a bad back, etc.)' And they way they go about it, the newsreel video, I think is done tastefully. Other than that, you really have NO clue what will happen on the ride.

just thinkin'.

[mycroft16]

Re: This is what it means...

Even with Indy there is still much that is open. The ride itself may be going through a very specific sequence as part of a story, but the actual setting is, once again, layered history.

You get the tree roots growing in through a crumbled roof. Bamboo poles lashed together holding up the wall and roof. Almost completely faded hyroglyphics and symbols. Skulls of people long dead impaled on spikes. Chambers with oculi letting the sun in. What was this room used for? Why is there a well in the center? And once on the ride you get similar layerings of history. The thousands of skulls with candles. How did they get there? Who built this temple to Mara? etc. So even on a ride with an actual plotline, it is still possible to put in this layered history.

Roger Rabbit does it as well. In the garage you can see the first Simoleon they earned. Tools, stains, etc. Smog warnings, legal documents. You get that layering again. Things you would expect to be in a garage, that you notice in passing without really noticing them.