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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    This was in refrence to Darkbeers post but I realized after a reread that he is responding to another post about a connection to the city outside the resort. So now it just stands as my opinion and continued faith in the future of monorail at the DLR.

    With a significant investment like that required for a subway, monorail trains could also be developed to fit on extra trains, its just the current Disney designs that do not permit this. A subway is good for a network under roads in a grid with many stops, but I think Disneyland's point to point transportation needs are better suited for a circut. The costly underground installation is unfeasible and no more efficient. Furthermore replacement of the concrete beam would be needed far less often than the replacement of metal tracks. Likewise, trams and busses need a dedicated, at grade lane which would hamper the aesthetic of the parks theming. Some would question the Monorails presence in Fantasyland but I think a bus (in any sense) running through the park paths would be significantly more intrusive than the monorail beams.

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  • Darkbeer
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    One big difference between Monorails and other sources of "trains", including subways, light rail, etc.

    The Monorails are built to be "one unit", while trains can add or remove individual cars when needed.

    Why do subways work better than Monorails?

    First, there is large initial costs to build the tracks/tunnels. But Subways can have multiple track and switchbacks a lot easier than a Monorail. It is also easier to repair and replace rail track versus Monorail track.

    And as mentioned above, you can have a 4 car train during a slow period, but bump it up to 12 or so cars (depending on the system) when it is busy. The trains still run every "x" minutes, but you have doubled or tripled the amount of passengers per hour as compared to Monorails which have a "fixed" amount of cars.

    You can build special roadways for Buses, just like LA did for the Orange Line. And that benefit (similar to trams), you can just drive the bus/tram around the one broken down on the road.

    Most trains/light rail have many bridges/underways that avoid busy intersections in traffic. Plus for some systems, much of the route is on current train tracks (such as the San Diego Trolley) which has limited street crossings.

    The San Diego Trolley is a great example of how they can increase capacity to handle the large amount of folks riding at the same time going to and from the Charge and Padres games. Special routes, extra trains, trolleys have more cars, special "parking" areas near the stadiums so the extra trolleys can just wait until the game is over to start adding additional trains as the crowds start to show up.

    San Diego Trolley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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  • Waking Beauty
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    I can't agree with the idea that the monorail shouldn't go far from the park due to safety concerns. There isn't a form of transportation in the history of humanity that hasn't caused injuries and death - and that includes walking. I don't see the monorail as significantly deadlier than any other manner of getting from Point A to Point B.

    I also don't agree with the idea that it would be a disadvantage for Disney to connect with an entertainment "competitor" like Hollywood. As far as Disney is concerned, the price of admission is the same, whether you stay for a few hours or for the entire day. There are definitely folks visiting Hollywood who would love to check out Disneyland but can't, due to time and travel issues. Imagine hopping onto the Monorail at the El Capitan on Hollywood Blvd., and exiting in Tomorrowland! I believe this would be hugely popular. It would also assist in the revitalization of Hollywood so much in evidence now, and which Disney in fact helped along thanks to its investment in El Capitan.

    And as for the "Disney won't", or "I can say with certainly", or "there is no way" - these type of statements assume that Disney will forevermore be stuck in a cynical, penny-pinching mode and there's nothing that can be done about that now. Tides do shift. Things go dark and fall to ruin (Hollywood being an example), but then they revive and thrive (Hollywood being an example). There are such things as Golden Ages - that's how we got Disneyland in the first place! - and a fresh one could arise at any moment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Code90
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    Originally posted by Retrocool View Post
    Last I checked, ALL trains are limited in capacity. So are all planes, ships, and automobiles. The Disneyland Parking Tram? Yep, limited in capacity.

    This "limited in capacity" argument just doesn't hold water. All forms of transportion are, by nature, limited in capacity. Even sidewalks only hold so many bodies at a time.

    So please, those of the anti-monorail contingent, find another argument to use.
    Designed originally as an attraction, the Disneyland Monorail System was designed as a low capacity system. Each train accommodates just over 122 passengers. In addition, Disneyland cut the size of their monorail fleet from four to three. Compare that with WDW Monorail's 12 trains (minus two after the recent incident) and 365 per train load capacity.

    For the DL Monorail to operate at maximum efficiency, three trains need to be operational. Since one train is usually down for refurbishment, we may never see three monorails operating again. On the busiest days, two trains is simply not enough to move guests efficiently.

    If you've ever been at the Downtown Disney station after dinner on a summer night, you would know what I mean. When the line gets long, monorail cast members have to count the number of available seats, or make everyone get off there. When Disneyland was operating three monorails, this was never an issue. Back when they had the Disneyland Hotel station, I remember getting on the monorail much faster than today... Even when the line extended down to the Neon Cactus.

    The point I'm trying to make is that the low capacity and number of trains that Disneyland has makes it an inefficient system for adding more stations. And I can say with certainty that Disneyland won't invest the money to build higher capacity monorails or a wider beamway to handle bigger trains.

    I agree with you that a monorail is a great idea for mass transit. However, to all those who think Disneyland should expand their system to include more stops is simply unrealistic. Theoretically, I think a station at the Paradise Pier Hotel could work, but certainly not in DCA or any parking lot.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    I dont know if they are really that much of a safety concern seeing as there have only been a few incidents over the past 50 years in all of the resorts utilizing monorails at an almost nonstop rate. If there is a mistake, its almost always human error to blame. Really, with the extreamly low chance of derail, collision or need for evacuation, monorails are not a bad choice in the future.

    Leave a comment:


  • MickeyMania
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    You really don't want the Monorail to be going too far out into the world because they are a little bit of a safety hazard.

    A Mark IV caught on fire once. Was a miracle nobody was killed, and nobody had any disabilities that prevented them from walking along the roof of the train, sliding down the nosecone to the track (whoof!), and then into the Contemporary. And I should mention the heights of the track when it goes into and out of the Contemporary are high above ground, much higher than DL's track has ever been.

    The Monorail isn't going to go to Hollywood or downtown LA, but a stop at Anaheim Station (Metrolink/Amtrak) is a within the realm of feasibility.

    If the California HSR actually happens (seems unlikely that it will go enough years without getting it's funding cut, but...) then I wouldn't be surprised if a spur to the station was actually built. Of course, the HSR won't be around for another 20 years even if everything goes well (and it won't), so attitudes at Disney will have changed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    At current, Disneylands monorail serves no purpose in efficient transportation of guests. You can indeed walk to DTD faster then it takes you if you miss a train. As Walt said though (cliche alert), and as you can tell from the loops in the autopia area, the ride at current is more of a sightseeing attraction than a means of transportation.

    As someone said earlier, all means of transportation are limited by capacity, but the diffrence is that Disneyland's Monorail is Negativly affected to the point it cannot move the people required to the locations they need to go as an efficient transportation system should. Sure there are lines at New Yorks subway, and sometimes you have to wait a bus at any major city, but you do eventually get there much faster then you would if you were forced to walk. Disneyland can not claim this fact.

    In regard to the hollywood line, Disney would never pay to have people shipped to an area with its main competition's theme park in the vicinity. However the Artic (i think) project is slated to have government money used to install such a system.

    However, if you wanted a good resort baised monorail, you could install this.

    much to my distress, for accuracy we now have to cut the top left corner of the "strawberry field" property off after Anaheim gave the new hotel the green light.

    Leave a comment:


  • Retrocool
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    Originally posted by Waking Beauty View Post
    My wish is that the Monorail would make an express connection with Hollywood, where Disney buffs could catch a movie at the El Capitan or check out Graumann's Chinese Theatre, the Walk of Fame, the Hollywood & Highland Center, or the new Madame Tussaud's.

    But then I suppose that the fake Hollywood in California Adventure would be rendered pointless in turn.

    Still, Disneyland and Hollywood both have HUGE groups of tourists who would no doubt LOVE to have the ability to easily shuttle back and forth between these two great "imagination centers." Disneyland and Hollywood have a LOT in common in terms of their shared objective of bringing dreams and imagination into reality.

    Another option might be an express PEOPLE-MOVER to connect Disneyland and Hollywood. It's just been ages since anybody's had any fun with transportation, and a working, practical People-Mover would serve as a mighty cheery antidote to that sad fact.
    All of these are excellent ideas, but they cannot be done, because they make sense, and would only too likely result in increased profits for Disney and others.

    And Disney is having NONE of that nonsense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Retrocool
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    Last I checked, ALL trains are limited in capacity. So are all planes, ships, and automobiles. The Disneyland Parking Tram? Yep, limited in capacity.

    This "limited in capacity" argument just doesn't hold water. All forms of transportion are, by nature, limited in capacity. Even sidewalks only hold so many bodies at a time.

    So please, those of the anti-monorail contingent, find another argument to use.

    You know the real difference between monorails and at-grade light rail? One shares the same ground level with cars in the street, one doesn't.

    Guess which one is more efficient and has a much better record of safety? That's right, the method that doesn't occasionally involve accidents with wayward cars and trucks that share the same road level, and doesn't have to stop for traffic lights (which light rail does - I should know; I use my city's local light rail sytem and I see how it works).

    Like kidgenie said, the Disneyland Monorail System is just a demo track. Monorails in the United States have, by and large, never REALLY been implemented as full-fledged primary components of a mass transit system. Monorails outside the US, however, have flourished as parts of several mass transit systems.

    Monorail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Oh, and oddly, both New York and Chicago have managed to have rapid transit rail systems that are ELEVATED ABOVE the traffic (or otherwise separated from it) and seem to work just fine. The only difference between elevated rail systems and monorail is in how the train interacts with the track. That's really it.

    Chicago 'L' - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    New York City Subway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Now if you want to see a REAL Disney monorail system, you've gotta go to Japan.

    Disney Resort Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    OLC GROUP > About OLC > Summary of TOKYO DISNEY RESORT > DISNEY RESORT LINE

    Tokyo Disney Resort: Disney Resort Line

    Leave a comment:


  • Sambo
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    The Disneyland Monorail was indeed a glimpse into what our future could become. Other places have caught on, but here in the US we are controlled by the rail industry and their billions to promote dangerous "light rail" as the premiere mass transit option.

    The Monorail Society - Monorails: safe, fast, economic, green and proven. You've arrived at THE monorail website!

    Leave a comment:


  • Timon
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    Originally posted by Circa1966 View Post
    I know - it's difficult to find good Mark IIIs...I personally think they are the definitive model...
    You would think a train that's been running for 20 years would have a few good pictures. I have the same problem with the Mark IV's which were out for over twenty years also. I think because of the all the pictures being on film or print I have to wait for a good shot and someone willing to have a good scan made. Frankly because of nastalgia and that the older trains look so different I'm more likely to find a Mark III than a Mark IV.

    Leave a comment:


  • Timon
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    Originally posted by BiggestDisneyFan View Post
    Well, this isn't perfectly clean, but it's pretty clear:
    http://www.bigbrian-nc.com/postcards...ds/DL-1201.jpg
    Really nice shot. I always liked the way the windows wrapped over your head and of course the dome for the pilot. The picture you have looks copied from a book and has a slight pattern from the printing method. Otherwise it would be perfect. What I'm looking for is shot like that, from film with no plants or things crossing over the train for easy clipping out. Dang this would have been a good one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Circa1966
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    Originally posted by Timon View Post
    Actually I haven't been able to find clean and clear shots of red Mark III and IV's to complete "All Monorails Named Red". I wanted the Mark VII featured as the newest in the middle, which worked out.
    I know - it's difficult to find good Mark IIIs...I personally think they are the definitive model...
    Originally posted by BiggestDisneyFan View Post
    Well, this isn't perfectly clean, but it's pretty clear:
    http://www.bigbrian-nc.com/postcards...ds/DL-1201.jpg
    Ooooh...good one!
    Last edited by Circa1966; 09-27-2009, 12:15 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BiggestDisneyFan
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    Originally posted by Timon View Post
    Actually I haven't been able to find clean and clear shots of red Mark III and IV's to complete "All Monorails Named Red". I wanted the Mark VII featured as the newest in the middle, which worked out.
    Well, this isn't perfectly clean, but it's pretty clear:
    http://www.bigbrian-nc.com/postcards...ds/DL-1201.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • Timon
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    Originally posted by TheDude View Post
    I see a pattern in every's posts about the problems with DLR's monorail, WDW's monorail and LV's monorail... lack of expansion.

    Go ahead, look at previous posts bashing the monorail... If it was expanded, we would all love it (even with the lack of capacity for the DLR.)
    You are right with that! At WDW we have 400 buses and counting. These buses run on the same roads as the cars do and there are times especially in DTD at night when there is grid lock. It often looks like the buses out number the cars. Although this has been temporarily eased by closing Pleasure Island of anything that might attract a crowd.

    Betting on just Buses or Monorails won't work but Buses feeding Monorails at major stations and then you have something cool. DL Monorail is just a classic in need of more destinations.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheDude
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    I see a pattern in every's posts about the problems with DLR's monorail, WDW's monorail and LV's monorail... lack of expansion.

    Go ahead, look at previous posts bashing the monorail... If it was expanded, we would all love it (even with the lack of capacity for the DLR.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Waking Beauty
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    My wish is that the Monorail would make an express connection with Hollywood, where Disney buffs could catch a movie at the El Capitan or check out Graumann's Chinese Theatre, the Walk of Fame, the Hollywood & Highland Center, or the new Madame Tussaud's.

    But then I suppose that the fake Hollywood in California Adventure would be rendered pointless in turn.

    Still, Disneyland and Hollywood both have HUGE groups of tourists who would no doubt LOVE to have the ability to easily shuttle back and forth between these two great "imagination centers." Disneyland and Hollywood have a LOT in common in terms of their shared objective of bringing dreams and imagination into reality.

    Another option might be an express PEOPLE-MOVER to connect Disneyland and Hollywood. It's just been ages since anybody's had any fun with transportation, and a working, practical People-Mover would serve as a mighty cheery antidote to that sad fact.

    Leave a comment:


  • LangenFox
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    Pointless? Pointless?! Who told you that?

    Make a monorail in RCT, RCT2, and RCT3. Then you will know how important transportation is at Disneyland and theme parks.

    Leave a comment:


  • DisneyIPresume
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    I miss the days that my mom would surprise me after school and take me to the Disneyland Hotel and pay $1 for a round trip on the monorail.

    Leave a comment:


  • spacejockey
    replied
    Re: Monorail at DLR Pointless?

    It's not pointless. How else can you get a cocktail at Disneyland? You take the monorail of course to DDD!

    Leave a comment:

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