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  • #21
    Re: Where's your line in the sand?

    Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    In almost every case, those enterprises existed during the turn of the 19th Century, so they functioned more as product placement. Coca-Cola, General Electric, and several other strategic allies of Walt Disney all have brands and histories that were substantially tied to that period in American life.

    [...]removed for brevity of quote[...]

    Hills Bros., Nescafe, and other brands didn't have the same problem because they did not represent coffee bars and other establishments that exist in overabundance throughout the outside world. So, much will depend on how well Disney actually integrates the products into the parks.
    A most excellent post. Starbucks could work on Main Street if Disney is allowed to really tone down the whole Starbucks-ness of the store. If it is merely Starbucks coffee and pastries but it remains the Market House in all other respects, then it might just work. If Starbucks digs in their heels and insists that is a regular old Starbucks, then it's going to be a catastrophic failure in terms of how well it works at Disneyland. Oh it will make money regardless because they do have good coffee and such, but it simply won't work on Main Street as part of Main Street.

    If I were Disney I would be driving a very hard line and telling Starbucks that they will sell their coffee, but in Disney cups. They can sell their own pastries, but in Disney wrappers or bags. All merchandise in the store will be Disney and the Starbucks label will be relegated to a "sponsored by:" tag below the Market House name. I would remind Starbucks that they are getting the opportunity of a lifetime to sell their coffee as the exclusive coffee sold INSIDE Disneyland. A more or less captive audience of around 50,000 people.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

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    • #22
      Re: Where's your line in the sand?

      Do you all forget that MONSANTO sponsored one of the prime Tomorrowland rides for 20 some years, Adevntures Through Inner-Space.

      If you don't know, Monsanto is a heck of a lot worse than Starbucks when it comes to evil planet destroying corporations.


      What I'm trying to say is: Huge Massive Invasive Corporate Sponsorships have been apart of Disneyland since Walt was alive.

      It truly is the AMERICAN WAY.

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      • #23
        Re: Where's your line in the sand?

        Even to the point where some people still refer to Adventure thru Inner Space as "The Monsanto Ride." However we were not able to buy a gallon jug of Round-up in a Monsanto gift shop somewhere.

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        • #24
          Re: Where's your line in the sand?

          Originally posted by Usul831 View Post
          Do you all forget that MONSANTO sponsored one of the prime Tomorrowland rides for 20 some years, Adevntures Through Inner-Space.

          If you don't know, Monsanto is a heck of a lot worse than Starbucks when it comes to evil planet destroying corporations.


          What I'm trying to say is: Huge Massive Invasive Corporate Sponsorships have been apart of Disneyland since Walt was alive.

          It truly is the AMERICAN WAY.
          At the time, when Tomorrowland was being created, there was no concern for "evil planet destroying corporations". Monsanto was a very Tomorrowlandish kind of company willing to sponsor an attraction. So Monsanto was an appropriate sponsor for the land.

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          • #25
            Re: Where's your line in the sand?

            Originally posted by Usul831 View Post
            If you don't know, Monsanto is a heck of a lot worse than Starbucks when it comes to evil planet destroying corporations.
            You're applying our 2009 viewpoint of environmentalism to that of 1966 (the year Adventure thru Inner Space was conceived and designed). The argument is as invalid as using 1966 criteria to evaluate events of 1923.


            Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-18-2009, 12:44 PM.
            "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
            it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
            together with every variety of recreation and fun,
            designed to appeal to everyone."

            - Walt Disney

            "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
            - Michael Eisner

            "It's very symbiotic."
            - Bob Chapek

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            • #26
              Re: Where's your line in the sand?

              Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
              You're applying our 2009 viewpoint of environmentalism to that of 1966 (the year Adventure thru Inner Space was conceived and designed). The argument is as invalid as using 1966 criteria to evaluate events of 1923

              The arguement is not about environmentalism. The point I was trying to make is that whomever are the largest capitalist companies of the day will make sponsorship deals with Disney.

              There are some people who think Main Street should be mummified and preserved and not changed or altered in anyway. I'm glad they are in a tiny minority

              And for the record I don't drink coffee, and hate Starbucks, but have absolutely nooooo problem with them serving it at DLR. It's 100% Capitalistic and 100% USA to get in bed with Disney and put your name on a hat, ride, mug, or whatever...

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              • #27
                Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                In addition to Adventure thru Inner Space, Monsanto also sponsored the Hall of Chemistry (1955-1966) and House of the Future (1956-1966). Monsanto ended its sponsorship of the Adventure Thru Inner Space in 1977, and the park took Monsanto's name off the attraction and started charging a C ticket (previously it had been free).

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                • #28
                  Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                  Originally posted by Usul831 View Post
                  There are some people who think Main Street should be mummified and preserved and not changed or altered in anyway. I'm glad they are in a tiny minority
                  You rock.

                  Anywho..

                  I draw the line in the sand when Disneyland does something that personally offends me. And they just can't do that.. unless they buy the rights to that god-forsaken Twilight book series.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                    Originally posted by stitchon View Post
                    I draw the line in the sand when Disneyland does something that personally offends me. And they just can't do that.. unless they buy the rights to that god-forsaken Twilight book series.
                    Would make a great Haunted Mansion overlay!

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                      Originally posted by Usul831 View Post
                      Would make a great Haunted Mansion overlay!
                      Only if Edward Cullen is the one hanging from the rafters.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                        oops..double post. sorry~!
                        Last edited by SnorkletsMom; 10-18-2009, 01:47 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                          When "Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln" becomes "The Best of Hannah Montana"

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                            My line in the sand is people who claim to be Disney fans, and then talk about how much they hate what Disney is doing.

                            People who claim to love Disney, and Disneyland, and then bad mouth everything that's changed.

                            I love Disneyland. I understand that changes will always happen. I might not like them all, but with the exception of the horrifying WalMart idea, none of them will stop me from going. And even then, if it's well themed, I'll just smile and walk past it.

                            No matter if its Welch's, Kodak, Coke, McDonalds, or Starbucks... as long as the theming is good, I'm ok with it.

                            I <3 Disneyland.
                            Check out my Disney pix at: http://picasaweb.google.com/westsidejuggalette

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                              Disneyland hasn't crossed the line for me yet. Now, that would be an entirely different story if Disneyland were composed entirely of elements built according to Disney's recent strategies. But the fact of the matter is that it's not. Despite all the poor choices that have been made, there are still so many intact good choices in the park that it's still worth my money on occasion. That's because the things done right in Disneyland are just that powerful, not because Disney hasn't made some pretty whopping errors.

                              I hope the line will never be crossed for me. But it's absolutely possible. All Disney would need to do would be to stop partially shielding my favorite attractions and areas - HM, the various Mountains, Pirates, Indy, etc. - from their current approach to theme park design. If enough of those started really resembling Disney's late-90s/2000's output, I'm sad to say I'd stop visiting. Wouldn't be an easy choice, but I'd do it. As I said, I hope it never comes to that - and I hope we stop having valid reasons to even discuss this.

                              EDIT: Sorry you (and others) feel that way, pin_up_pixie. Maybe someday you'll understand that there are other valid types of fan-dom in addition to your own. The sound arguments for why that's the case have all been made ad nauseum and with little effect, so I won't bore you with them now.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                Maybe some people criticize the company out of love for the park.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                  Poppycock!

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                    Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
                                    Maybe some people criticize the company out of love for the park.
                                    Indeed. It's precisely BECAUSE people love it that they criticize. If I didn't love the park, I wouldn't care what anyone did to it, would I? To imply that loving something or someone means you can't also recognize when they make a mistake is a ridiculous and dangerous thought.

                                    Remember, the opposite of love isn't hate, the opposite of love is indifference.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                      My bad. I didn't mean to upset anyone. The question was, "Where's your line in the sand?" That's mine. Too many people being too hard on Disney. It breaks my heart to be in the park and hear people do nothing but complaining. I just want to have a happy, joyful, loving, time. If the park was filled with those people, that would be my line.

                                      I was just posting to answer the question that was asked. Not to upset anyone. Again my bad.
                                      Check out my Disney pix at: http://picasaweb.google.com/westsidejuggalette

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                        Originally posted by pin_up_pixie View Post
                                        My line in the sand is people who claim to be Disney fans, and then talk about how much they hate what Disney is doing.

                                        People who claim to love Disney, and Disneyland, and then bad mouth everything that's changed.

                                        I love Disneyland. I understand that changes will always happen. I might not like them all, but with the exception of the horrifying WalMart idea, none of them will stop me from going. And even then, if it's well themed, I'll just smile and walk past it.

                                        No matter if its Welch's, Kodak, Coke, McDonalds, or Starbucks... as long as the theming is good, I'm ok with it.

                                        I <3 Disneyland.
                                        do finally decide to have Wall Mart run the Emporium and maybe then give up?

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                          Thanks for clarifying, pin_up_pixie; I can appreciate you weren't trying to offend anyone. Careful about the assumptions you make about people, though - being willing to decry a decision on a discussion board is different from spending all one's time in the park obsessing about it. I mean, I've certainly made and agreed with a fair number of posts that speak negatively about decisions Disney's made, but anyone who's been to the park with me will tell you that when I'm there, I have a great time. Period. Sure, I make note of things that seem off - Walt allegedly did that, too - but I don't let them ruin my day. I work to let those things slide off me, while hoping that in the future, those things won't be around for me to let them slide off.

                                          EDIT: While I confess that I often find myself thinking the same way, bfdf55, I don't think making that sort of accusation is any more productive. There's something to be said for appreciating whatever one gets...just as there's something to be said for designing theme parks to satisfy everyone, even the harshest critic.

                                          Comment

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