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  • #61
    Re: Where's your line in the sand?

    I recoil at the thought of how Disneyland would have turned out if it had "reflected the times" in 1955...

    EDIT: This statement will inevitably be misconstrued. May as well do some damage control in advance. Of course Disneyland has always reflected the times in which it has existed to some degree. I'm just saying that the influence should mostly be in the form of positive ways to make the park relevant - ew, buzzwords! - and not ways to cheapen the experience just because everyone else is doing it.

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    • #62
      Re: Where's your line in the sand?

      Including the words "Disneyland" and "cheaper prices" in one post makes the software crash, as it is an impossible parameter value.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Where's your line in the sand?

        Originally posted by Usul831 View Post
        If there was an affordable manufacturing base that could make unique and high quality merchandise I'm sure DLR would use it. Unfortunately that doesn't exist and nearly ALL "stuff" is made in the same generic overseas factories. Again DLR is just reflecting the times...
        Meaning no disrespect, the argument is specious. The switch to generic merchandise was accomplished by the Pressler regime swiftly and proactively, not in response to the manufacturing base suddenly becoming unaffordable, but to deliver the double digit profits that Eisner demanded.

        The switch to generic merch was part of a draconian rethinking of Disneyland away from its former purpose as a premiere showplace and vacation destination: at the same time, rides were closed, restaurants were shuttered, ODV carts proliferated, entertainment was cut, maintenance was slashed, and Disneyland overall was re-purposed as a marketing channel for the franchise brands of Disney's other divisions.


        "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
        it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
        together with every variety of recreation and fun,
        designed to appeal to everyone."

        - Walt Disney

        "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
        - Michael Eisner

        "It's very symbiotic."
        - Bob Chapek

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        • #64
          Re: Where's your line in the sand?

          If Disneyland and I have seen Casa De Fritos, Chicken of the Sea and a bra store on Main Street come and go... Starbucks seems like a great idea.

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          • #65
            Re: Where's your line in the sand?

            The worst thing for me is crowds and the poor distribution of said crowds (another topic). However, with the magic annual pass, I can keep trying until I find a good a few hours to enjoy the park.

            And when it's not crowded, the park is still magical and still worth the effort it takes to visit it. Disneyland hasn't yet seen the thematic destruction of say, Knott's Berry Farm.

            However, when compared with the Disneyland of 20 or more years ago, the current park is less well themed, the dinner options are less interesting, and the stores are more generic and generally less accurately themed. I simply don't understand some choices like marquee lights lining the pre-electricity Frontierland buildings, making them just like the Main Street buildings. Other choices to support shows, I understand, but I simply don't like. But, it hasn't been all bad. Some rides have clearly been improved. Some thematic elements are vastly more detailed. And the fireworks? They are amazing.

            In summary, It'll take more than a Pooh ride or a Star Bucks to keep me away. At the current rate of thematic destruction, Disneyland still has at least 20 years of Walt magic left to destroy!

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            • #66
              Re: Where's your line in the sand?

              Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
              IMO the Depp "integration" is a hamhanded, in-your-face, blatant promotion of Bruckheimer's Pirates franchise -- the characters, the music score, the whole commercial schmeer -- and it ruined POTC for me.


              I am guessing you don't have a five year old son who worships Jack Sparrow. Any grandkids? It's the equivalent of seeing Zorro in Frontierland in the 60's.

              Where do I draw the line in the sand? Better not try to do a Babes in Toyland overlay on Main Street!

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              • #67
                Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
                What would it take for me?

                Oh, I dunno. Maybe something like...

                Turning the Submarine Voyage into a cartoon video sequel. 99 cents to add two slices of tomato to an overpriced, inedible hamburger. Ripping out the Skyway. Replacing Disneyland's unique merchandise with generic crap. Innoventions. Making a merch location out of the Main Street Bank. Toons in Small World. $3 to get your name embroidered on your Mickey Mouse ears. Closing the PeopleMover. Turning the Swiss Family Treehouse into a Disney Store display for Tarzan. Depp of the Caribbean. Mall-style color palette on Main Street buildings. Monorail windows. Parking from hell. Winnie the Pooh. Senior Imagineers who call Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage "our major E-Ticket." Turning Disneyland into a mosh pit of uncontrolled APs and promotions. Fifteen years of lowering the quality of food. Letting Fort Wilderness rot. Trashing Tomorrowland. Turning the Courtyard of Angels into a merch location.

                Starbucks on Main Street.

                I love this post! I've been going to DL since 1968 and I agree 100% with all of the above. Including Starbucks!!! I live in Seattle and can get it on every street corner. (Or so it seems.)

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                • #68
                  Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                  Originally posted by I Heart Disneyland View Post
                  I love this post! I've been going to DL since 1968 and I agree 100% with all of the above. Including Starbucks!!! I live in Seattle and can get it on every street corner. (Or so it seems.)
                  heck, I can get it on every street corner and they sell it at my work ....and I'm in California.

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                  • #69
                    Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                    Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                    I am guessing you don't have a five year old son who worships Jack Sparrow.
                    How is what your kid likes relevant to how I feel about how WDC ruined for me an attraction that I love?

                    What, 5-year-olds worship Jack Sparrow, so that justifies turning a Disneyland classic into a commercial for the Pirates movie franchise? The Barney the Dinosaur set is keen on Nemo, so let's put his underwater video sequel in the Submarines? Kindergarten girls are hot for Tinkerbell, so let's push her and her pixie pals in every corner of the park? Please.


                    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                    designed to appeal to everyone."

                    - Walt Disney

                    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                    - Michael Eisner

                    "It's very symbiotic."
                    - Bob Chapek

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                      Originally posted by SCUBAbe View Post
                      heck, I can get it on every street corner and they sell it at my work ....and I'm in California.
                      Amen SCUBabe! I know they are everywhere!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                        My line in the sand will only be such a time that they price the annual pass where I can no longer afford it. Until then, I will continue to go to the park, hicups, warts, issues, crowds, problems and all because no matter what its an escape from reality for me.




                        Help me get more security in Pingvinivlle! Click here!


                        Originally posted by AGhostFromThePast
                        all you need to know about the mommy stick is.. out of all the bad things that could happen to you... it's right between wetting yourself and death.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                          Mr. Wiggins, I don't have children either, but I posit that the genesis of your problem was turning "pirates of the Caribbean" into Disney's biggest movie franchise, which was a decision Cooked up in Burbank.

                          It's only natural then for young visitors to expect their favorite Disney characters to appear in the ride bearing "the movie's" name. Do you follow?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                            Except the first Pirates film was a great flick that didn't feel like a commercial for another franchise. As far as I'm concerned, making that movie was a great decision on Disney's part. Naturally, some park guests were going to wonder why Jack wasn't in the ride - but would ridership really have been reduced as a result? People would still ride at least as much as if they hadn't made the film. Not making the changes to the ride would have eliminated the temporary boost in numbers it got after it reopened, but it also would have eliminated the significant cost of building three new AAs, making Barbossa's face, adding Davy Jones, etc. Let us not forget that the lines are clearly back down to their original respectable baseline now.

                            Like I said, that horse is only just getting tender now!

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                              Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                              Mr. Wiggins, I don't have children either, but I posit that the genesis of your problem was turning "pirates of the Caribbean" into Disney's biggest movie franchise, which was a decision Cooked up in Burbank.

                              It's only natural then for young visitors to expect their favorite Disney characters to appear in the ride bearing "the movie's" name. Do you follow?
                              That's a fundemental difference between today's management and when Walt was alive. Presently Disney follows trends and creates what the audience demands. Walt and his team set trends and gave audiences stuff he knew they would like, even when the people didn't know it themselves yet.

                              Another thing, why does Disney have to be that predictable? What you're saying is that Disney should create everything that people would expect in an attraction? How boring.... That was proven on FNSV.


                              "It's no secret that we were sticking just about every nickel we had on the chance that people would really be interested in something totally new and unique in the field of entertainment."

                              Walt Disney
                              Last edited by Seawolf; 10-18-2009, 11:42 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                Nobody remembers all the other refurbishments that were included in Sparrow's budget. He was installed in a rather low key way (except at the very end, you have to look for him.). The new speakers sound great, the only things I don't like are the new music and Davy Jones hologram/projection thing.

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                                • #76
                                  Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                  Originally posted by SnorkletsMom View Post
                                  When "Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln" becomes "The Best of Hannah Montana"
                                  omfg.

                                  I only get to visit Disney about once a year, if even that, so I appreciate it when I go. Nothing has really "drawn the line" for me yet. Except the ever rising prices, that prevent me from going.

                                  sigpic

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                    Originally posted by Seawolf View Post
                                    That's a fundemental difference between today's management and when Walt was alive. Presently Disney provides what the audience demands and follows trends. Walt and his team set trends and gave audiences stuff he knew they would like, even when the people didn't know it themselves yet.

                                    Another thing, why does Disney have to be that predictable? What your saying is that Disney should create everything that people would expect in an attraction? How boring.... That was proven on FNSV.
                                    St. Exupery wrote that you should remain childish and not become an adult.

                                    Adults have a higher mortality rate too, they aren't getting any younger.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                      Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                                      Nobody remembers all the other refurbishments that were included in Sparrow's budget. He was installed in a rather low key way (except at the very end, you have to look for him.). The new speakers sound great, the only things I don't like are the new music and Davy Jones hologram/projection thing.
                                      I would hardly call audio shouting Jack Sparrows name every 2 seconds low key, not to mention repurposed scenes designed to direct your attention to him. It's not like Jack is way off in the background, he is directly in front of you.

                                      No one is disputing refurbishments and upgrades.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                        Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                                        Nobody remembers all the other refurbishments that were included in Sparrow's budget. He was installed in a rather low key way (except at the very end, you have to look for him.). The new speakers sound great, the only things I don't like are the new music and Davy Jones hologram/projection thing.
                                        I assure you, the Jack AAs themselves are the least of my concern. What's really disturbing is how they changed the narrative from a coherent series of vignettes to an explicit and nonsensical plot. Hearing "Captain Jack Sparrow" and "Davy Jones" every five seconds doesn't help, nor does the use of Jack's humorously noble theme in a scene that is not humorous, noble, or Jack-centered. (That's assuming one isn't bothered by the stylistic differences between 60s orchestral scoring and turn-of-the-millennium Media Ventures synth-fueled power anthems.) The Enya version of "Yo Ho" and the fact that the original captain was replaced with a guy who doesn't look at all like Barbossa aren't great deal-sweeteners, either.

                                        However, the overhaul did do two wonderful things - it added those cool cannon effects, and it didn't touch a lot of great elements that were already there.

                                        There's still meat on them horsey bones!

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                          Babes in Toyland was an even greater theme violation.

                                          Who's movie promotion was that?

                                          Comment

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