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  • #81
    Re: Where's your line in the sand?

    Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Babes in Toyland was an even greater theme violation.

    Who's movie promotion was that?
    So because one idea was flawed makes it right to make another one?

    Comment


    • #82
      Re: Where's your line in the sand?

      Originally posted by astrologic View Post
      omfg.

      I only get to visit Disney about once a year, if even that, so I appreciate it when I go. Nothing has really "drawn the line" for me yet. Except the ever rising prices, that prevent me from going.
      I wish I could go this much!

      Pirates was changed because many people, and more to come wondered where Jack was. For years and years, you have all rode Pirates and loved its story, now its the next generations turn to enjoy Pirates as they know it. And hey, they left 70% of the ride the way it was for everyone to enjoy. Win-win

      -readies shield and ducks into trench-

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      • #83
        Re: Where's your line in the sand?

        Originally posted by TrevorD View Post
        Pirates was changed because many people, and more to come wondered where Jack was. For years and years, you have all rode Pirates and loved its story, now its the next generations turn to enjoy Pirates as they know it. And hey, they left 70% of the ride the way it was for everyone to enjoy. Win-win
        at best, and the lines aren't one bit longer now than they were in, say, 2002.

        Again...if they'd made the first movie and not made significant changes to the attraction, would ridership have decreased? It still would have increased due to the popularity of the film. Again, there wouldn't be that temporarily huge line after the reopening, but there wouldn't be the cost of creating and installing all the new stuff. Yes, there'd be some folks who'd be confused about the lack of Captain Jack. What a great opportunity for them to learn that the attraction predates the film by over thirty years! Yes, newcomers will now grow up with the attraction as it currently exists, not the original version, and that's part of what I'm sad about. They'll never get a chance to experience its original greatness in person. Won't know what they're missing, though I suppose that's less painful than having experienced both. =/

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        • #84
          Re: Where's your line in the sand?

          Originally posted by Datameister View Post
          at best, and the lines aren't one bit longer now than they were in, say, 2002.

          Again...if they'd made the first movie and not made significant changes to the attraction, would ridership have decreased? It still would have increased due to the popularity of the film. Again, there wouldn't be that temporarily huge line after the reopening, but there wouldn't be the cost of creating and installing all the new stuff. Yes, there'd be some folks who'd be confused about the lack of Captain Jack. What a great opportunity for them to learn that the attraction predates the film by over thirty years! Yes, newcomers will now grow up with the attraction as it currently exists, not the original version, and that's part of what I'm sad about. They'll never get a chance to experience its original greatness in person. Won't know what they're missing, though I suppose that's less painful than having experienced both. =/
          Fair enough, your points are valid, but in the end, who's life does it change? Kids seeing JS love it just as much as you love it, so although they aren't experiancing the magic that you have been drawn to for years, they themselves are establishing those memories regarding the new ride. Then, Disney can devistate them in thirty years just as they have you.
          Last edited by Trevor; 10-19-2009, 02:17 AM.

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          • #85
            Re: Where's your line in the sand?

            Both sides of the Disney family are not happy, and they haven't been for a while now. They're desperately trying to preserve the legacy and the name while maintaining their own dignity. And, I sympathize completely with them.

            Both sides of the family are in such an unfortunate position to be forced to watch The Walt Disney Company degenerate in the wake of Eisner.

            Things like the Walt Disney Family Museum, and its location in San Francisco, are really evidence of just how disgusted certain members of the family are with The Company and with the way it has treated the life's work of both Walt and Roy Disney.

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            • #86
              Re: Where's your line in the sand?

              Originally posted by TrevorD View Post
              Fair enough, your points are valid, but in the end, who's life does it change? Kids seeing JS love it just as much as you love it, so although they aren't experiancing the magic that you have been drawn to for years, they themselves are establishing those memories regarding the new ride. Then, Disney can devistate them in thirty years just as they have you.
              Cue: Circle of Life
              [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5GPYWpRxAA]YouTube - The Lion King: Circle of Life - Part 1[/ame]

              Comment


              • #87
                Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                It's only natural then for young visitors to expect their favorite Disney characters to appear in the ride bearing "the movie's" name. Do you follow?
                Meaning no disrespect but where was the Swiss Family AA's in Swiss Family Treehouse? The attraction included the name, and while the treehouse design wasn't an exact replica it was taken "from the movie"... so according to your logic it should have had AA's for the Guests to relate to. Otherwise it would be too confusing for younger visitors who only had their imagination to work with.
                "Happiness is a Low Water Level"

                sigpic

                "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"

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                • #88
                  Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                  Originally posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
                  Things like the Walt Disney Family Museum, and its location in San Francisco, are really evidence of just how disgusted certain members of the family are with The Company and with the way it has treated the life's work of both Walt and Roy Disney.
                  Even if the park were a perfect example of everything gone right... I doubt the family would want the museum in close proximity to the park. The intention was to set it aside so it would not be confused with a standard Disneyland attraction. This isn't a show. It isn't "Great Moments with Uncle Walt". It is an American story of a kid who grew into a man and yet somehow managed to keep his childlike wonder. Walt is a reminder that being a kid isn't just confined to ones own childhood. A reminder that sometimes work and play can go hadn in hand. I look forward to seeing the museum and I am extremely grateful it is outside the marketing influence of the park itself. I feel it is a "personal touch" that many Disney fans will appreciate and many Disney executives may or may not understand.
                  "Happiness is a Low Water Level"

                  sigpic

                  "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"

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                  • #89
                    Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                    where can i start? winnie the pooh ride replaced country bears, making tom sawyersisland pirates lair, making a nemo submarine ride, making innoventions, starbucks, getting rid of the c a l i f o r n i a sign, getting rid of people mover, making a hell parking structure, having toontown, turning sun wheel into fun wheel, turning screamin into sun burst, and much more

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                    • #90
                      Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                      Serving Starbucks coffee? Instead of Blech Nescafe?

                      Getting rid of the c a l i f o r n i a sign? It's BLECH!

                      Having toontown: ????

                      Turning sun wheel into fun wheel, turning screamin into sun burst: You're kidding now, right?

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                        Originally posted by techskip View Post
                        Meaning no disrespect but where was the Swiss Family AA's in Swiss Family Treehouse? The attraction included the name, and while the treehouse design wasn't an exact replica it was taken "from the movie"... so according to your logic it should have had AA's for the Guests to relate to. Otherwise it would be too confusing for younger visitors who only had their imagination to work with.
                        1. It was just a treehouse, a walk through, not a big attraction.
                        2. It had Swiss family artifacts, if not an actual Swiss family
                        3. You're right about the Tarzan cartoon elements being unnecessary, although I do like the jaguar.

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                          Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                          Serving Starbucks coffee? Instead of Blech Nescafe?

                          Getting rid of the c a l i f o r n i a sign? It's BLECH!

                          Having toontown: ????

                          Turning sun wheel into fun wheel, turning screamin into sun burst: You're kidding now, right?


                          toon town is a piece of crap first off

                          i liked california adventue the way it was before

                          i can handle mcdonalds but starbucks? come on!

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                            Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                            Serving Starbucks coffee? Instead of Blech Nescafe?

                            Getting rid of the c a l i f o r n i a sign? It's BLECH!

                            Having toontown: ????

                            Turning sun wheel into fun wheel, turning screamin into sun burst: You're kidding now, right?
                            All change is Bad, CA. TV Tropes taught me that.
                            Current hat total: 100 of 100 - completed!

                            Duckland
                            : Stroll through downtown Duckburg, making sure to tour Scrooge's Money Bin, then cross the Audubon Bay Bridge to St. Canard. Visit Liquidator's Splash Pool, and don't forget a stop by Bushroot Gardens!

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                            • #94
                              Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                              Originally posted by wweecwdude View Post
                              i can handle mcdonalds but starbucks? come on!
                              I can handle the smell and taste of Starbucks being served instead of Nescafe. It's an improvement.

                              The McFry wagon, Burger Invasion and Fowler's French Fries were abominations. Blech.

                              Have I said "Blech"?

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                                1. It was just a treehouse, a walk through, not a big attraction.
                                2. It had Swiss family artifacts, if not an actual Swiss family
                                3. You're right about the Tarzan cartoon elements being unnecessary, although I do like the jaguar.
                                Given that... would it have been possible to include "elements" of Sparrow without including him. Further would it have been possible to alter the soundtrack to include the movie theme (which is done in the battle scene) without having his name repeated every few minutes.

                                The reality is that the inclusion of Jack in Pirates was unnecessary, and the forced attention directed at Jack is equally unnecessary.
                                "Happiness is a Low Water Level"

                                sigpic

                                "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                  Originally posted by techskip View Post
                                  Further would it have been possible to alter the soundtrack to include the movie theme (which is done in the battle scene) without having his name repeated every few minutes.
                                  Yes...and if they had to include music from the film (which I enjoy, but find entirely inappropriate to the attraction), they could have at least picked a cue that somewhat matched the tone of the scene. The cue we hear in the attraction was written to accompany Jack's very first scene - it has a certain grandiose feel that's nevertheless subtly humorous, especially in the context of the original scene. Most of it develops the leitmotif written for Jack in the first film, and of course, Jack is nowhere to be seen in that part of the attraction...it's a wholly perplexing choice. It's not even the most well-recognized theme from that film - the action-ified love theme that you hear at the beginning of "He's a Pirate" probably takes the cake for that. The music they picked is a perfectly good cue, but it's neither appropriate to the scene nor the most popular among guests.

                                  And any great composer or film director knows that lack of music can be just as powerful as a flawless cue, when used appropriately. A good example of that was the stark lack of music in the original battle scene.

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                                  • #97
                                    Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                    If Jack Sparrow had been there from the beginning, nobody would have noticed or had a problem with it.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                      That wouldn't make a difference in whether or not the attraction makes sense. If it had been originally built with Jack and all the other additions, the story still wouldn't work. The story is that Jack is looking for treasure on an island, and other pirates are hunting him down, but the good citizens of the town (including the mayor!) are protecting him. And the ship, the Wicked Wench, is the Black Pearl before it was branded a pirate ship by the EITC. That means Jack is being pursued by his own crew...before any of them were known as pirates. What. The. Heck.

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                                      • #99
                                        Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                        When I was a kid I had fun going up and down Swiss Family Treehouse and it never crossed my mind that there were no AA people in it. There was an organ playing music at the top. It was fun and even though you were pretty high up it wasn't scary. The park needs more places like the treehouse, Tom Sawyer Island and Skull Rock where kids can just have fun exploring, instead of waiting in line just to ride past a bunch of audio-animatronics.

                                        Comment


                                        • Re: Where's your line in the sand?

                                          Originally posted by Datameister View Post
                                          That wouldn't make a difference in whether or not the attraction makes sense. If it had been originally built with Jack and all the other additions, the story still wouldn't work. The story is that Jack is looking for treasure on an island, and other pirates are hunting him down, but the good citizens of the town (including the mayor!) are protecting him. And the ship, the Wicked Wench, is the Black Pearl before it was branded a pirate ship by the EITC. That means Jack is being pursued by his own crew...before any of them were known as pirates. What. The. Heck.
                                          Are you sure it's not an alternate story in which Jack is looking for treasure in the town and Barbarossa's crew, having captured Jack's ship, is chasing him? And also, the fact that it doesn't make sense now is hardly a good justification for not changing it if, as you point out, it didn't make sense before.

                                          I mean we're talking about a ride with a singing donkey so I'm not so sure why you need it to "make sense" in the first place.

                                          Comment

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