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  • Bruce Bergman
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by oo_nrb View Post
    As someone who had to unexpectedly come face-to-face with handicap accessibility at Disneyland, I rather appreciate the "stupid ADA compliance rules", and if you were in the same situation I bet you would as well.
    Originally posted by ttrocc7007 View Post
    My quadraplegic brother in law calls the place "The Unhappiest Place On Earth"
    It's gotten a Whole Lot Better over the last 15 years or so, and we've had family members with mobility problems so I've noticed...

    As various rides have gone down for rehabs they have added wheelchair ramps, and access elevators, and widened and rerouted queues, and set up formalized and sometimes dedicated HCA access routes in through a side door or the exit queue, redesigned ride vehicles, and added Wheelchair Roll-On vehicles to some old rides, and...

    They didn't have to do it in most cases, but they did it. They never had to do anything structural to Tiki Room past a new roof and a freshen-up, but they added an electric Wheelchair Lift from the queue lanai to the rear (exit) porch - and they disguised it to where you have to look for it to see iut... Now you don't have to help/carry people up the stairs or haul the wheelchair up six steps to get in.

    Heck, they added a perfectly themed wheelchair ramp at Plaza Pavillion, and it only opened for one weekend after that as a restaurant before closing semi-permanently. It's been the (On again Off again) Annual Passholder Processing Center since.

    --<< Bruce >>--

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  • Aladdin
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    There will always be a giant missing gap in DL, as long as the Skyway is missing

    And speaking of other horrendous news from 15 years ago, the Decade of Disney in Decline started, with the death of Frank Wells in 1994.

    And ALSO, Paul Pressler was named President of The Disneyland Resort in November, 1994.

    Yeesh, what an awful year for Disney and DL.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lukey114
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    I would love for them to bring it back.
    I have never been able to ride it and its a bummer that i didnt get to, cuz it looks amazing. Imagine the photos we could take from there.

    Leave a comment:


  • ttrocc7007
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by oo_nrb View Post
    I thought that accessibility at Disneyland was decent for what they had to work with; not nearly as bad as the horrors of Universal Studios Hollywood.

    He hasn't returned to the park in many years, but his wife (my sis) tells me things have improved at Disneyland greatly since his last visit.
    I attended a concert with him at the Gibson Amphitheater (formerly the Unversal Amphitheater) a few years back which is located on the grounds of Universal, and he had no trouble getting around the city walk or the Amphitheater grounds. I have no idea how it would be in the theme park.

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  • oo_nrb
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by ttrocc7007 View Post
    My quadraplegic brother in law calls the place "The Unhappiest Place On Earth"
    I thought that accessibility at Disneyland was decent for what they had to work with; not nearly as bad as the horrors of Universal Studios Hollywood.

    Leave a comment:


  • ttrocc7007
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by oo_nrb View Post
    As someone who had to unexpectedly come face-to-face with handicap accessibility at Disneyland, I rather appreciate the "stupid ADA compliance rules", and if you were in the same situation I bet you would as well.
    My quadraplegic brother in law calls the place "The Unhappiest Place On Earth"

    Leave a comment:


  • oo_nrb
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by Ruiner View Post
    Another attraction that had to be taken out because of stupid ada compliance rules.
    As someone who had to unexpectedly come face-to-face with handicap accessibility at Disneyland, I rather appreciate the "stupid ADA compliance rules", and if you were in the same situation I bet you would as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Koutesu
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I wonder how all the other existing skyway-type attractions in the country get away with being non ADA compliant...
    Don't forget about state/county fairs where they're designed to go anywhere. They're not permanent fixtures like the Disneyland skyway and they're more ski lift like where you're on a hanging bench instead of an enclosed car. How do they get away with it?

    Leave a comment:


  • dfan07
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by Madame_Leota View Post
    I was also always scared that I wouldn't be able to get out of the vehicle fast enough and end up riding to some strange place. lol.
    For the record, that 'strange place' is just an empty corridor with a roll door to the maintenance area. Then the doom buggies emerge in loading.

    Leave a comment:


  • TIS17
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    It was both cutting-edge technology and of European design--perfect for both Tomorrowland and Fantasyland.
    It was cutting edge when it was built, not today. The attraction seemed "out of theme" to me anyway... I still miss it though, but do not want it back. I'll just take a drive to the San Diego Zoo or SeaWorld if I want to experience it again.

    Leave a comment:


  • ttrocc7007
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by PrincessIzzie View Post

    [Edit: Can anyone tell me where the old Fantasyland Station is? Someone above mentioned it being covered by weeds and such but I've never noticed it before and want to look out for it next time I visit!]
    That was me. Imagine yourself exiting the Village Haus restaurant. Directly in front of you are a set of vending wagons. Directly behind one is a chained off staircase. That staircase leads directly to the Fantasyland loading station of the Skyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tomorrowland_1967
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by napamaninsocal View Post
    Get over it
    That was totally unnecessary .. and very immature!

    Leave a comment:


  • blondiethesounds
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    Times and people change.
    Exactly.

    Knowing the punk *** kids that populate the park now, it would be a disaster waiting to happen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alex E
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by wweecwdude View Post
    At least Great America still has one, its called eagles flight
    Oh yeah I saw that one in June 2008. There's also a small one in SF New England that I rode a year before.

    Leave a comment:


  • Madame_Leota
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
    My Mom was always confused by getting on and off the omnimovers at both the Haunted Mansion and Adventure thru Inner Space. The vehicles were moving at one speed, while the rotating platform was moving at a slower speed. She could never figure out where to step and when, and wouldn't go on those any more. If you looked down and tried to mentally calculate what to do, it was kind of weird. You had to just look at the vehicle and aim for that without thinking about the platform speed. I'm pretty sure the PeopleMover vehicles went very slowly in the station, the same speed as the platform, but I'm not 100% sure.
    Yeah, the Peoplemover didn't scare me nearly as much as the Haunted Mansion did as a child because the Peoplemover was slow enough and went the same speed as the platform. I was still kind of scared of the "boarding a moving vehicle" concept though, which is kind of the opposite of what every other ride pounds into your head. Boarding the Haunted Mansion was scarier though because, as you said, the platform and the vehicles move at different speeds and it's really weird. I was also always scared that I wouldn't be able to get out of the vehicle fast enough and end up riding to some strange place. lol.

    Leave a comment:


  • NeverNeverland
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by PrincessIzzie View Post

    [Edit: Can anyone tell me where the old Fantasyland Station is? Someone above mentioned it being covered by weeds and such but I've never noticed it before and want to look out for it next time I visit!]
    you can see it really well when you are riding Casey jr. There is usually a Christmas tree in there during Christmas time!

    Leave a comment:


  • Bruce Bergman
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by Ruiner View Post
    Actually Bruce they were required to make one station Ada compliant so people in wheel chairs could get to the station and then a gondola to fit a wheel chair which would then force them to widen the hole in the Matterhorn which wasn't worth it. There were other issues but that was the main thing that ruined it. Cal OSHA grandfathers things in that's why the people movers were allowed to continue for a few more years but can never come back.
    CalOSHA has nothing to do with ADA, only with the potential repetitive motion injuries of all the CM's hostlering the cabins through the station by hand.

    Once you came off the wire, they had to stop the gondolas by hand, open the door by hand (which also involved kicking, toe-ing or kneeing the safety latch that the riders can't reach), and steady the gondola from swinging by hand as one batch of Guests got out and another got in. Then close and latch the door, and push it around to the Launch area where another CM would send out the gondolas at regularly spaced intervals - by hand.

    They could have rigged up a wheel on the bottom of the gondolas and a guide channel in the station floor to stabilize them, and a motorized movement system in the station, and made a new 'Side Track' to load and unload a HCA gondola - but it would have been a total redesign and a massive investment.

    And even with the newer square gondolas, a HCA car would have room for 1 small wheelchair and 1 attendant/friend, and be stuffed in. No electric chairs unless you backed in the door and that's it, and no room to move if you had a medical emergency.

    Oh, and no easy way to do an emergency evacuation of the HCA cabin with a typical FD Ladder Truck or basket lift. That could be really sticky.
    Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I wonder how all the other existing skyway-type attractions in the country get away with being non ADA compliant...
    Simple - they don't claim to be or try to be compliant, and most people with abilities problems understand this.

    "We can stop the ride for a minute to let you board, and give you a helping hand, but if you can't transfer in and transfer out it can't be done, sorry."

    Palm Springs is a fully enclosed cabin, and there is a PSAT Attendant in there with you to discourage throwing things out the window. San Diego's goes mostly over water and vegetation, so no people, no spitting on people.

    With the DL and WDW Skyways going over "populated areas" it was an attractive nuisance for the spitters and water squirters. Not to mention all the paper airplanes and little parachutes launched, hand-rolled "herbal cigarettes" smoked...

    Times and people change.

    --<< Bruce >>--

    Leave a comment:


  • longears
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    All I remember about the ride was seeing all the hats near the track when it went through the Matterhorn. For some reason that image stuck with me.

    Leave a comment:


  • DaHatTrick
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    At least Great America still has one, its called eagles flight

    Leave a comment:


  • CAspace
    replied
    Re: 15 Years Ago Today...

    Originally posted by Bruce Bergman View Post
    The Americans with Disabilities Act had nothing to do with it, that's just a convenient Whipping Boy to hide the real reason. The ADA has always had a 'Grandfathered' Clause - They couldn't build it new without full access, but unless they made major changes to the old buildings and old ride system they could leave it as-is. And any reasonable steps they made to improve access wouldn't trigger a total redo either.

    IMHO they closed down both of the Skyways for the extensive maintenance needed (they probably were at the "Change the Wire Rope and Annual Rebuild" point) the ongoing high labor costs to staff the ride, and most important were liability issues.

    There was a close call in 1994 when a Guest climbed out of a DL bucket and fell ~20' into a tree, with only minor injuries - but sued anyway. Then there was a fatality accident at WDW involving a Cast Member in 1999. Snopes did a write-up on both.

    Disney has insurance for the 'Big Stuff' and Self-Insures for the 'Little Stuff'. I don't know whether it was Disney Legal or the insurer who said "too big a liability, close it down" but I'll bet you that was a big factor in the decision. Both shutdowns were made in the same calendar year as the incidents - that's a pattern that can not be ignored.

    "Okay, we keep it running for another six months so we can deny it was unsafe at the time of the incident. Don't train any new operators, and tell maintenance not to order more spare parts, use up the ones we have on hand..."

    --<< Bruce >>--
    Great points,
    One more point to mention is that the skyway types rides can cause lots of repetitive stress injuries to the cast members operating them, for opening and locking the doors and grabbing holding the gondolas for loading and then moving them back onto the "wire" for dispatch. So that may have also played a small factor in the overall decision. Also the security aspect of dealing with the punk's who would spit on guests and cause general havock, etc, was another man power factor that they may not have wanted to deal with anymore. I am sure all those factors along with the costs of upkeep and insurance, sealed the attractions fate. Cedar Point still has a large "Skyway" type ride, it is very cool to still get to ride it. Of course it is not as cool as Disneylands ever was since it does not go through the Matterhorn or over fantasy land but it is still fun!

    Leave a comment:

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