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  • #61
    Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

    ***

    New York City environment

    Tier II - Disney Standard DHS (b. 1989, extinct); Universal Studios Orlando (b. 1990)




    Tier I - Higher Standard TDS (b. 2001)

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

      Randy, if you don't mind me adding to this thread-

      Disney Standard: Kali River Rapids (DAK), Grizzly River Rapids (DCA)






      Higher Standard: Popeye & Bluto's Bilge Rat Barges (IoA)

      Last edited by Imagineer Scott; 12-08-2009, 09:39 AM.

      one hundred and one

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      • #63
        Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

        Originally posted by vfire View Post
        I'd forgotten how cheap IaSW's exterior is at MK. It's an embarrassment compared to DL and the others around the world.
        This is exactly what I thought the first time I went to WDW. I thought they should've done so much more.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

          ***

          Old West mine train coaster

          Tier III - Substandard Dollywood (b. 2007)


          Tier II - Disney Standard DL (b. 1979), MK (b. 1980), TDL (b. 1987)


          Tier I - Higher Standard DLP (b. 1992)

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          • #65
            Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

            Originally posted by RandySavage View Post
            ***

            Old West mine train coaster

            Tier III - Substandard Dollywood (b. 2007)


            Tier II - Disney Standard DL (b. 1979), MK (b. 1980), TDL (b. 1987)


            Tier I - Higher Standard DLP (b. 1992)
            Although I've never myself been to Dollywood, I have heard very positive reviews of the theming for Mystery Mine, probably elevating to Disney Standard rather than substandard.
            sigpic
            Long Live the Disney Renaissance

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            • #66
              Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

              ^ I've heard good things about it also, and the queue complex is solidly done. But once you leave the station, Mystery Mine is an unthemed steel coaster (similar to Dueling Dragons).
              http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...llywood_37.JPG

              In these comparisons I've given themeing, rather than total experience, the heaviest weighting. To use the Atlantis example, I enjoy the thrilling Sea World ride more than the IoA show, but as far as the exteriors/environments go, IoA is an order of magnitude greater.

              And to use Scott's example, while Kali is somewhat brief and uneventful when measured against its cousins, its queue and ride landscape represent Tier I design.
              Last edited by penguinsoda; 12-07-2009, 09:37 PM. Reason: Hotlinked image

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              • #67
                Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                Originally posted by Imagineer Scott View Post

                Higher Standard: Grizzly River Rapids (DCA) ,


                Have to disagree on this one.
                Just my opinion ...
                but GRR may have a rustic setting that hides the flume pretty well .. being in a very natural setting.

                But other than this huge "natural" looking rock .. there isn't much to see. At the first "holding" point (before the first - mini - drop) .. there's nothing going on. No AA's, no moving props of any kind, just rock walls to stare at! The most they do for theming is they threw a few kiaks and a few backpacks on the sides. It's a pretty boring ride. - Muchadoaboutnothing.

                It's a substandard attraction that came out of the cheaply made "DCA 1.0" in 2001.

                And I'm hoping something is done to bring it either up to "Disney" Standards ... or if they can actually exceed guest expectations (LIKE THEY USE TO) .. bring it up to a "Higher" standard.

                For now .. there's only speculation what could be done for it, when "phase 2" of the DCA makeover plan starts .. Sometime following the completion of "phase 1" in 2012.

                Some say ... adding AAs is enough. But some props on hydraulics could add a pretty good "unexpected" element to this ride. And the area that is semi-enclosed .. should become fully enclosed .. and the ride's only "showbuilding" type section where imagineers can manipulate the area with controlled lighting. And create some special effects that amp the ride up to "Higher Standards".
                Last edited by Tomorrowland_1967; 12-07-2009, 03:02 PM.
                MY SIGNATURE:
                Dear Peoplemover Fans, If you want to see a new attraction that at least mimics the 1967 Peoplemover in a future Tomorrowland remodel, you need to write to the powers-that-be, and let them know. If you don't - Then the next time Tomorrowland is remodeled, you will see a land barren of any "Peoplemover" type attraction.

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                • #68
                  Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                  Yeah, I'd put GRR in its current form at tier II at best.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                    Originally posted by RandySavage View Post
                    *****

                    Yeti AA & environment

                    Tier III - Subtandard DL (b. 1978)


                    Tier I - Higher Standard AK (b. 2006)


                    I'm going to have to disagree slightly about the 'substandard' of the Matterhorn's snowman. I think the one pictured is "STANDARD". It's a moving animatronic, it's got hair, and it looks fine.

                    SUBstandard would be the glowing red eyes in the dark.




                    And I also have to contest the Tomorrowlands. As bad as Disneyland's Tomorrowland is right now, it's not nearly as ugly and cold and sterile as the one in Florida. I'd even go as far to say that there is no higher standard when it comes to Tomorrowland right now. The best, being the version seen in the 60s.


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                    • #70
                      Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                      Originally posted by RandySavage View Post
                      ^ I've heard good things about it also, and the queue complex is solidly done. But once you leave the station, Mystery Mine is an unthemed steel coaster (similar to Dueling Dragons).
                      Gotta stand up for Dollywood on this one... a good portion of Mystery Mine is a fully-themed indoor dark ride, I'd say making up 50 percent of the actual ride. It's definitely NOT a totally unthemed steel coaster.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                        A lack of knowledge about Dollywood can make a person look like a boob!

                        Kidding, OP.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                          Originally posted by Coheteboy View Post
                          And I also have to contest the Tomorrowlands. As bad as Disneyland's Tomorrowland is right now, it's not nearly as ugly and cold and sterile as the one in Florida. I'd even go as far to say that there is no higher standard when it comes to Tomorrowland right now. The best, being the version seen in the 60s.

                          :lol:

                          I really don't know what to say to this except- 'really?'

                          one hundred and one

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                            Originally posted by Imagineer Scott View Post
                            :lol:

                            I really don't know what to say to this except- 'really?'

                            Everytime I see a post from you, I groan a heavy sigh.

                            Yes. Really. WDW's Tomorrowland is pretty ugly. Here's a few examples why:














                            And while we're at it, Adventureland is pretty ugly for these reasons:













                            And we all know Fantasyland already.

                            I rest my case.


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                            • #74
                              Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                              MILF does have a lot of fans, who aren't really Disney geeks like us here. The only bad apple of the bunch are Indy and the cars (easily fixable in refurb) and SGE (obviously).

                              The major DL TLand problem is - startling.

                              Astro Orbiter gone from the top?
                              PeopleMover abandoned?
                              Innoventions is stale to say the least


                              Those are my 3 major issues.

                              We can disagree, and I don't care. I just thought it was surprising to hear someone post DL is on par with MK TLand-wise. No need to be nasty.

                              one hundred and one

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                              • #75
                                Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                                Originally posted by Imagineer Scott View Post
                                MILF does have a lot of fans, who aren't really Disney geeks like us here. The only bad apple of the bunch are Indy and the cars (easily fixable in refurb) and SGE (obviously).

                                The major DL TLand problem is - startling.

                                Astro Orbiter gone from the top?
                                PeopleMover abandoned?
                                Innoventions is stale to say the least


                                Those are my 3 major issues.

                                We can disagree, and I don't care. I just thought it was surprising to hear someone post DL is on par with MK TLand-wise. No need to be nasty.

                                Abandoned tracks is definitely a disappointment, but once a ride is returned, it's fine.

                                Astro Orbitor is really bad placement, I agree.

                                Innoventions is stale, again, I agreed.


                                This debate isn't about me going "disneyland is the best". It's really about WDW's tomorrowland looking awful both outside AND in. It's really about the design of the land, all metallic, cold, uninviting. Even a good ride like Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin is an eyesore from the exterior.

                                The biggest problem with MK's Tomorrowland aesthetic is this: if we have a cartoon character in an attraction, we're going to make sure YOU KNOW it. Look at the signage. It's all about hooking the kid's attention.

                                Disneyland's Tomorrowland has toon based attractions but they don't boast the toon characters in the same way. Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters just has regular signage. Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage does not use a cartoon Nemo on the signage either. It retains its classy nostalgic style.


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                                • #76
                                  Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                                  Originally posted by Imagineer Scott View Post
                                  Randy, if you don't mind me adding to this thread-

                                  Disney Standard: Kali River Rapids (DAK)



                                  Higher Standard: Grizzly River Rapids (DCA) , Popeye & Bluto's Bilge Rat Barges (IoA)



                                  I think the DL shot is unfair in this comparison.
                                  It's a publicity shot and we know those are made to make things look way better than they are.
                                  Quote by Al:
                                  To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
                                  -Al Lutz


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                                  • #77
                                    Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                                    Originally posted by DLFreak71 View Post
                                    I think the DL shot is unfair in this comparison.
                                    It's a publicity shot and we know those are made to make things look way better than they are.
                                    True, that. For starters, there's a horizon in the real world!

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                                      That promotional picture of GRR is weird, because the sunlight hitting their
                                      faces is coming from one direction, while the sunlight hitting the rock is from another.



                                      In case whoever designed it is reading this: please don't take it personally,
                                      but the Observatron is the ugliest object I've ever seen in Disneyland.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                                        Having ridden both Kali River Rapids and Grizzly River Run, Grizzly is much much much better. Thematically though, very different and both excellent in execution. GRR COULD use a bit more theming though.


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                                        • #80
                                          Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

                                          Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post


                                          In case whoever designed it is reading this: please don't take it personally, but the Observatron is the ugliest object I've ever seen in Disneyland.


                                          No argument there.


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