Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

[RandySavage]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

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New York City environment

Tier II - Disney Standard DHS (b. 1989, extinct); Universal Studios Orlando (b. 1990)




Tier I - Higher Standard TDS (b. 2001)

[Imagineer Scott]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

Randy, if you don't mind me adding to this thread-

Disney Standard: Kali River Rapids (DAK), Grizzly River Rapids (DCA)






Higher Standard: Popeye & Bluto's Bilge Rat Barges (IoA)

[DillyDilly]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

I'd forgotten how cheap IaSW's exterior is at MK. It's an embarrassment compared to DL and the others around the world.

This is exactly what I thought the first time I went to WDW. I thought they should've done so much more.

[RandySavage]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

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Old West mine train coaster

Tier III - Substandard Dollywood (b. 2007)


Tier II - Disney Standard DL (b. 1979), MK (b. 1980), TDL (b. 1987)


Tier I - Higher Standard DLP (b. 1992)

[DarkSideoftheMouse]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

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Old West mine train coaster

Tier III - Substandard Dollywood (b. 2007)


Tier II - Disney Standard DL (b. 1979), MK (b. 1980), TDL (b. 1987)


Tier I - Higher Standard DLP (b. 1992)

Although I've never myself been to Dollywood, I have heard very positive reviews of the theming for Mystery Mine, probably elevating to Disney Standard rather than substandard.

[RandySavage]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

^ I've heard good things about it also, and the queue complex is solidly done. But once you leave the station, Mystery Mine is an unthemed steel coaster (similar to Dueling Dragons).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/2070_Euro-Fighter_Mystery_Mine_Dollywood_37.JPG

In these comparisons I've given themeing, rather than total experience, the heaviest weighting. To use the Atlantis example, I enjoy the thrilling Sea World ride more than the IoA show, but as far as the exteriors/environments go, IoA is an order of magnitude greater.

And to use Scott's example, while Kali is somewhat brief and uneventful when measured against its cousins, its queue and ride landscape represent Tier I design.

[Tomorrowland_1967]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

Higher Standard: Grizzly River Rapids (DCA) ,

Have to disagree on this one.
Just my opinion ...
but GRR may have a rustic setting that hides the flume pretty well .. being in a very natural setting.

But other than this huge "natural" looking rock .. there isn't much to see. At the first "holding" point (before the first - mini - drop) .. there's nothing going on. No AA's, no moving props of any kind, just rock walls to stare at! The most they do for theming is they threw a few kiaks and a few backpacks on the sides. It's a pretty boring ride. - Muchadoaboutnothing.

It's a substandard attraction that came out of the cheaply made "DCA 1.0" in 2001.

And I'm hoping something is done to bring it either up to "Disney" Standards ... or if they can actually exceed guest expectations (LIKE THEY USE TO) .. bring it up to a "Higher" standard.

For now .. there's only speculation what could be done for it, when "phase 2" of the DCA makeover plan starts .. Sometime following the completion of "phase 1" in 2012.

Some say ... adding AAs is enough. But some props on hydraulics could add a pretty good "unexpected" element to this ride. And the area that is semi-enclosed .. should become fully enclosed .. and the ride's only "showbuilding" type section where imagineers can manipulate the area with controlled lighting. And create some special effects that amp the ride up to "Higher Standards".

[Datameister]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

Yeah, I'd put GRR in its current form at tier II at best.

[Coheteboy]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

*****

Yeti AA & environment

Tier III - Subtandard DL (b. 1978)


Tier I - Higher Standard AK (b. 2006)

I'm going to have to disagree slightly about the 'substandard' of the Matterhorn's snowman. I think the one pictured is "STANDARD". It's a moving animatronic, it's got hair, and it looks fine.

SUBstandard would be the glowing red eyes in the dark.




And I also have to contest the Tomorrowlands. As bad as Disneyland's Tomorrowland is right now, it's not nearly as ugly and cold and sterile as the one in Florida. I'd even go as far to say that there is no higher standard when it comes to Tomorrowland right now. The best, being the version seen in the 60s.

[stitchon]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

^ I've heard good things about it also, and the queue complex is solidly done. But once you leave the station, Mystery Mine is an unthemed steel coaster (similar to Dueling Dragons).

Gotta stand up for Dollywood on this one... a good portion of Mystery Mine is a fully-themed indoor dark ride, I'd say making up 50 percent of the actual ride. It's definitely NOT a totally unthemed steel coaster.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

A lack of knowledge about Dollywood can make a person look like a boob!

Kidding, OP.

[Imagineer Scott]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

And I also have to contest the Tomorrowlands. As bad as Disneyland's Tomorrowland is right now, it's not nearly as ugly and cold and sterile as the one in Florida. I'd even go as far to say that there is no higher standard when it comes to Tomorrowland right now. The best, being the version seen in the 60s.

:lol:

I really don't know what to say to this except- 'really?'

[Coheteboy]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

:lol:

I really don't know what to say to this except- 'really?'

Everytime I see a post from you, I groan a heavy sigh.

Yes. Really. WDW's Tomorrowland is pretty ugly. Here's a few examples why:














And while we're at it, Adventureland is pretty ugly for these reasons:













And we all know Fantasyland already.

I rest my case.

[Imagineer Scott]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

MILF does have a lot of fans, who aren't really Disney geeks like us here. The only bad apple of the bunch are Indy and the cars (easily fixable in refurb) and SGE (obviously).

The major DL TLand problem is - startling.

Astro Orbiter gone from the top?
PeopleMover abandoned?
Innoventions is stale to say the least


Those are my 3 major issues.

We can disagree, and I don't care. I just thought it was surprising to hear someone post DL is on par with MK TLand-wise. No need to be nasty.

[Coheteboy]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

MILF does have a lot of fans, who aren't really Disney geeks like us here. The only bad apple of the bunch are Indy and the cars (easily fixable in refurb) and SGE (obviously).

The major DL TLand problem is - startling.

Astro Orbiter gone from the top?
PeopleMover abandoned?
Innoventions is stale to say the least


Those are my 3 major issues.

We can disagree, and I don't care. I just thought it was surprising to hear someone post DL is on par with MK TLand-wise. No need to be nasty.

Abandoned tracks is definitely a disappointment, but once a ride is returned, it's fine.

Astro Orbitor is really bad placement, I agree.

Innoventions is stale, again, I agreed.


This debate isn't about me going "disneyland is the best". It's really about WDW's tomorrowland looking awful both outside AND in. It's really about the design of the land, all metallic, cold, uninviting. Even a good ride like Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin is an eyesore from the exterior.

The biggest problem with MK's Tomorrowland aesthetic is this: if we have a cartoon character in an attraction, we're going to make sure YOU KNOW it. Look at the signage. It's all about hooking the kid's attention.

Disneyland's Tomorrowland has toon based attractions but they don't boast the toon characters in the same way. Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters just has regular signage. Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage does not use a cartoon Nemo on the signage either. It retains its classy nostalgic style.

[DLFreak71]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

Randy, if you don't mind me adding to this thread-

Disney Standard: Kali River Rapids (DAK)



Higher Standard: Grizzly River Rapids (DCA) , Popeye & Bluto's Bilge Rat Barges (IoA)

I think the DL shot is unfair in this comparison.
It's a publicity shot and we know those are made to make things look way better than they are.

[Datameister]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

I think the DL shot is unfair in this comparison.
It's a publicity shot and we know those are made to make things look way better than they are.

True, that. For starters, there's a horizon in the real world!

[Bob Weaver]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

That promotional picture of GRR is weird, because the sunlight hitting their
faces is coming from one direction, while the sunlight hitting the rock is from another.



In case whoever designed it is reading this: please don't take it personally,
but the Observatron is the ugliest object I've ever seen in Disneyland.

[Coheteboy]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

Having ridden both Kali River Rapids and Grizzly River Run, Grizzly is much much much better. Thematically though, very different and both excellent in execution. GRR COULD use a bit more theming though.

[Coheteboy]

Re: Raising the Bar in Themed Design: A Case Study

In case whoever designed it is reading this: please don't take it personally, but the Observatron is the ugliest object I've ever seen in Disneyland.

No argument there.