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  • #61
    Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

    I understand where the OP is coming from, but I also think patience is a virtue. A major live theater production like Animazement for example takes tremendous time to prepare. DCA is currently under a one billion dollar refurbishment and reform process. Give them a little bit of a break. The Jubilee show IS a fantastic live show with a multitude of performers. But I think at the same time, there are going to be certain years in DLR where there is some downtime in certain ways. I wouldn't count out that they will never offer other large stage show entertainment again (and they DO have Aladdin which is a fantastic, super elaborate show that eclipses Animazement in props and complexity by a country mile.) Don't ignore the fact there is still some large stage show stuff here at this point in time, even if there are only two. This is a theme park, not a broadway musical. Give them some time for DCA to settle into its new digs. They can't be everywhere and everything at once all the time.

    The shows available now are not "low quality." That's just ridiculous. They're great shows but I understand this is not going to be an objective point.

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    • #62
      Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

      And World of Color is just around the corner. It may not have "live performers" so to speak, but it's clearly going to be an enormous show, probably the most elaborate water show on Earth. The more I think about it, the more unreasonable I think it would be right now to say DLR live entertainment is lacking on a grand scale.

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      • #63
        Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

        Originally posted by ICe101 View Post
        1. This is understandable, but Disneyland Resort as a whole isn't even trying. They have so much potential areas that they could use but they don't.
        2. This attitude sucks, but is basically the truth. Disneyland has realized that they can give out such low quality products and people will still come that they continue to pump out low quality.
        Thank you for proving my point that this is about your personal opinion of the what the shows are rather than quantity as you keep trying to claim in order to ligitimize your personal opinion. Again, you are welcome to your personal opinion...just please recognize it as such with out trying to pass it off as fact with some kind numbers game.

        Originally posted by ICe101 View Post
        Alright and with your logic, if we build one ride in each area of Disneyland, each ride will be more popular then if we were to have numerous rides in each land, correct? Just pondering your train of thought.....
        Surprisingly you have totally misunderstood (or ignored) my point. BALANCE as I said MANY times is my "logic". SO no, ONE ride in each land would not be a balance. Nor would a major stage production in every single land as you aparently would like to see.

        I can only speak for myself and the group I usually go to the park with...on a typical 3 day or so visit, I do enjoy catching one or two nice and large live productions. But I didn't go to DLR just to sit and watch stage performance all though the trip...I also want to get to some of the rides, take in the street performances and theme, do some shopping, some dinning. I, and anyone else, wont do that if several times a day I am in line and then sitting down watching a large stage production. If that is your cup of tea, great, but as I said once, Disney the business can not cater to your specific cup of tea. They must cater to the average (read majority) visitor. If you unbalance the resort with too much of one thing or another, a guest will feel after a typical 3 day visit like "that was OK, but darn, I didn't get to this or that." That's not the feeling Disney the business wants its guests leaving the park with as much as it can help it.

        BALANCE the attractions (including the large live productions) and you give the average guest a chance at sampleing everything. DLR (like every other resort on the planet) will have times when the offerings are less (for instance, now with the fantasyland theater being misused). That is the ebb and flow of the resort.

        So forcing a large production venue into every corner will not mean the same attendance in every one of them that Aladin now enjoys...it means guests frustrated because they had time to see show "X" during their visit AND got the kids over to Tom Sawyer's Island, and rode Pirates, and ect...but couldn't see shows "Y" and "Z" because there wasn't time. OR guests frustrated because they saw Shows "X, Y, and Z" but then didn't have time to get to the Subs, or matterhorn, ect...
        Last edited by Goofy Daddy; 12-22-2009, 08:24 AM.

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        • #64
          Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

          Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
          So forcing a large production venue into every corner will not mean the same attendance in every one of them that Aladin now enjoys...it means guests frustrated because they had time to see show "X" during their visit AND got the kids over to Tom Sawyer's Island, and rode Pirates, and ect...but couldn't see shows "Y" and "Z" because there wasn't time. OR guests frustrated because they saw Shows "X, Y, and Z" but then didn't have time to get to the Subs, or matterhorn, ect...
          Isn't this what Disney wants? To offer enough so that guests stay longer? Isn't that kind of the point of expansion? To offer more? I still don't understand your logic. Why wouldn't Disney do this? The only reason the guests were mad is because they did not stay long enough....

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          • #65
            Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

            Originally posted by ICe101 View Post
            Isn't this what Disney wants? To offer enough so that guests stay longer? Isn't that kind of the point of expansion? To offer more? I still don't understand your logic. Why wouldn't Disney do this? The only reason the guests were mad is because they did not stay long enough....
            They stay until closing time. If you cram too much in, it wont mean guests stay longer...it just means they will be frustrated that they couldn't get it all in.

            Also, once again, you are letting your personal opinions of how things should be cloud your judgement. Not everyone can/want to spend every waking hour in the park trying catch every show they can. MOST also want to get in some shopping, or dinning, or other things. BALANCE...the concept you seem to just not be able to get...is the answer...NOT shoving the type of entertainment that YOU personally like best into every open space.

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            • #66
              Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

              While watching Brian Setzer the other night it occurred to me that Disney really is lacking in the music department. I remember stories of some of the "greats" like Benny Goodman, Louie Armstrong, Duke Ellington etc. I have memories of some of the bands that played in Tomorrowland (Suburban Legends among others). Now... well now the music is really hit or miss... it's personal opinion, but a decent concert would be enjoyable.
              "Happiness is a Low Water Level"

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              "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"

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              • #67
                Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                Originally posted by techskip View Post
                While watching Brian Setzer the other night it occurred to me that Disney really is lacking in the music department. I remember stories of some of the "greats" like Benny Goodman, Louie Armstrong, Duke Ellington etc. I have memories of some of the bands that played in Tomorrowland (Suburban Legends among others). Now... well now the music is really hit or miss... it's personal opinion, but a decent concert would be enjoyable.
                Ah, now that I could go for. A straight up concert series offered over a seasonal schedule. Perhaps Techskip has hit on some middle ground we both can agree upon Ice?

                I recall Great America used to do that...I saw Oingo Boingo there several times. If the bands were good enough and more than just their company pop star line up it would be a great addition to the live venue mix currently offered. The only draw back I could see would be Disney not being able (brave enough) to do more than their own branded stars.

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                • #68
                  Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                  Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
                  They stay until closing time. If you cram too much in, it wont mean guests stay longer...it just means they will be frustrated that they couldn't get it all in.

                  Also, once again, you are letting your personal opinions of how things should be cloud your judgement. Not everyone can/want to spend every waking hour in the park trying catch every show they can. MOST also want to get in some shopping, or dinning, or other things. BALANCE...the concept you seem to just not be able to get...is the answer...NOT shoving the type of entertainment that YOU personally like best into every open space.
                  So you can honestly say that on a regular day you can go to the park and do literally everything in the park?
                  No.
                  There will always be "the ride you didn't get to go on" or "the show you didn't get a chance to see"
                  But what does that make you do? Go back to Disneyland.
                  If there are more shows, it will keep people coming back.
                  I really don't see the downside to offering more shows. It would thin out crowds a little bit, and give people another reason to come back to Disneyland.

                  You're exaggerating now. Disney doesn't need to shove a ride into "every empty space" or "every land", that's just unrealistic.
                  But maybe Disney should utilize the empty stages they currently have.
                  You can't say that adding 1 or 2 more large shows to Disneyland wouldn't be beneficial at all.

                  And you said you typically like to watch 1 or 2 large live performances when you visit.
                  So you like to watch 1 or 2 of the 2 large live perfomances.
                  Wow, must be tough deciding which 2 you want to see when you go.
                  Wouldn't you like to have a little more variety?

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                  • #69
                    Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                    Originally posted by Awesome View Post
                    So you can honestly say that on a regular day you can go to the park and do literally everything in the park?
                    No.
                    When and where did I say that? I have several times said "on a typical 3-day visit". The DLR, even at only 2 gates, is too big to do everything in one day, period. Especially on a crowded peak season day and if you add DTD to it. So no, that's not what I was saying at all.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                      Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
                      Ah, now that I could go for. A straight up concert series offered over a seasonal schedule. Perhaps Techskip has hit on some middle ground we both can agree upon Ice?

                      I recall Great America used to do that...I saw Oingo Boingo there several times. If the bands were good enough and more than just their company pop star line up it would be a great addition to the live venue mix currently offered. The only draw back I could see would be Disney not being able (brave enough) to do more than their own branded stars.
                      I'm actually somewhat surprised that they didn't build a concert venue when they built DTD... instead they opted for a movie theater. Likewise Gardenwalk didn't bother with a concert venue. Granted there are concerts at HOB, but that venue is TINY... if they were aiming for a "resort destination" then a concert venue should have been on that list of must haves....
                      "Happiness is a Low Water Level"

                      sigpic

                      "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"

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                      • #71
                        Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                        Originally posted by Awesome View Post
                        You're exaggerating now. Disney doesn't need to shove a ride into "every empty space" or "every land", that's just unrealistic.
                        But maybe Disney should utilize the empty stages they currently have.
                        You can't say that adding 1 or 2 more large shows to Disneyland wouldn't be beneficial at all.
                        I was paraphrasing based on the list of open spaces Ice had given. He kept pointing to "all the open spaces" and pretty much listed in one post or another every land except Critter Country and NOS. I have already said MANY times that adding a show of some type to fantasyland theater would be a great idea. Another back in the old FoF area would be ok...though I think Techskip's idea of a concert series would be best back there.

                        Originally posted by Awesome View Post
                        And you said you typically like to watch 1 or 2 large live performances when you visit.
                        So you like to watch 1 or 2 of the 2 large live perfomances.
                        Wow, must be tough deciding which 2 you want to see when you go.
                        Wouldn't you like to have a little more variety?
                        Sure, as I bolded the key phrase there. What was being suggested by the OP and a few others was not a little anything though, that has been my main point. Some additions are not an issue with me and are in fact probably a great idea. That didn't seem to be what was being suggested however.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                          Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
                          I was paraphrasing based on the list of open spaces Ice had given. He kept pointing to "all the open spaces" and pretty much listed in one post or another every land except Critter Country and NOS. I have already said MANY times that adding a show of some type to fantasyland theater would be a great idea. Another back in the old FoF area would be ok...though I think Techskip's idea of a concert series would be best back there.
                          I am not saying utilize all of those open spaces, but utilizing 2 or 3 would be great. There are tons of options for building more shows, they just aren't using any of these.

                          A concert series sounds okay but I am talking about something that you can watch any day of the year. That would just be something that happens occasionally like a special event. Again back to my point about the park goer who pays full price for a weekday in Jan/Feb compared to the guest who pays the same for a weekend in July.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                            Originally posted by ICe101 View Post
                            I am not saying utilize all of those open spaces, but utilizing 2 or 3 would be great. There are tons of options for building more shows, they just aren't using any of these.

                            A concert series sounds okay but I am talking about something that you can watch any day of the year. That would just be something that happens occasionally like a special event. Again back to my point about the park goer who pays full price for a weekday in Jan/Feb compared to the guest who pays the same for a weekend in July.
                            Ok, my misunderstanding then. I agree a couple more additions couldn't hurt and the balance would still be intact.

                            For now, (and this is just my opinion) Disney concentrates the majority of their live stuff on their "peak season" in the summer monthes. Jan/Feb is "off season" and so they cut back on offerings. I imagine keeping the park going full steam 12 monthes a year is costly and so when their attendance dips, so do the offerings.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                              Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
                              When and where did I say that? I have several times said "on a typical 3-day visit". The DLR, even at only 2 gates, is too big to do everything in one day, period. Especially on a crowded peak season day and if you add DTD to it. So no, that's not what I was saying at all.
                              I was using "you" as a general statement applying to visitors of the park.
                              No you didn't say that about yourself but you did say...

                              Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
                              it means guests frustrated because they had time to see show "X" during their visit AND got the kids over to Tom Sawyer's Island, and rode Pirates, and ect...but couldn't see shows "Y" and "Z" because there wasn't time. OR guests frustrated because they saw Shows "X, Y, and Z" but then didn't have time to get to the Subs, or matterhorn, ect...
                              And I was saying that that is already the case.
                              On an average day people don't get to do everything in the park.
                              Adding 1 or 2 more shows wouldn't change that.
                              Last edited by Awesome; 12-22-2009, 11:59 AM.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                                Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
                                Ok, my misunderstanding then. I agree a couple more additions couldn't hurt and the balance would still be intact.

                                For now, (and this is just my opinion) Disney concentrates the majority of their live stuff on their "peak season" in the summer monthes. Jan/Feb is "off season" and so they cut back on offerings. I imagine keeping the park going full steam 12 monthes a year is costly and so when their attendance dips, so do the offerings.
                                Oh good, it appears we are on the same page. That's good. All I want is Disney to utilize what they have by offering more entertainment or to build new places to offer shows. In other words, I want more shows at the resort.

                                And it is totally understandable the off season thing. But I like the way Tokyo (and I believe Hong Kong as well) do it where they have the main shows (Dreamlights, Fireworks, Parades) go under maintence for 2-4 weeks at a time but then run them for the rest of the year. So Tokyo Disneyland's Electrical Parade Dreamlights run every day Feb-Dec but takes a break to the park's offseason. Maintence is understandable, but it is when parks get lazy by not offering everything when they have people paying the same amount but feel that there are not enough guests or some other excuse.

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                                • #76
                                  Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                                  The DCA Expansion has no effect on Entertainment's operations except causing parade route and venue problems. There is no reason that the project should be blamed for Entertainment's failure to bring stage shows to Disneyland.

                                  A) The Budget was set aside in 2007. It's not like other budgets are being continuously drained because the project is getting even more costly.

                                  B) Entertainment is a whole Different Department, its not like the same people in charge of the DCA project are also drafting the entertainment plans.
                                  Friend walks into line of The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh-
                                  "Come on, Let's go see Country Bear- .......Oh."
                                  -August 1st 2010

                                  And this elevator traverls directly to The Twilight Zone The Gift Shop!
                                  -August 2nd 2010

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                                  • #77
                                    Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                                    Originally posted by Walt Jr. View Post
                                    The DCA Expansion has no effect on Entertainment's operations except causing parade route and venue problems. There is no reason that the project should be blamed for Entertainment's failure to bring stage shows to Disneyland.

                                    A) The Budget was set aside in 2007. It's not like other budgets are being continuously drained because the project is getting even more costly.

                                    B) Entertainment is a whole Different Department, its not like the same people in charge of the DCA project are also drafting the entertainment plans.
                                    A. It is just that...a budget. The company set aside a fixed amount for the project (with lots of sub budgets that have lots of smaller fixed amounts). If the project goes "over budget" the additional money has to come from somewhere within the company's overall budget, and typically that means they will dip into those various other budgets, "Entertainment" being one of those that COULD be effected.

                                    B. See note above.

                                    I'm not saying that is what is happening or defending the idea that DCA's construction has anything to do with the topic at hand. I am just saying that separate budgets or not they ALL fall under the umbrella of the "Disneyland Resort Budget" and so if one section of that budget goes into the red the potential is there for other seperate budgets to take a hit to make up for it.

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                                    • #78
                                      Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                                      Originally posted by Walt Jr. View Post
                                      The DCA Expansion has no effect on Entertainment's operations except causing parade route and venue problems. There is no reason that the project should be blamed for Entertainment's failure to bring stage shows to Disneyland.

                                      A) The Budget was set aside in 2007. It's not like other budgets are being continuously drained because the project is getting even more costly.

                                      B) Entertainment is a whole Different Department, its not like the same people in charge of the DCA project are also drafting the entertainment plans.
                                      I don't see how entertainment is a failure. There are great shows available now. It's a theme park first and foremost. When the parks had Animazement and the Hunchback show they didn't have Aladdin or the Jubilee. You guys seem more concerned about space not being used than about whether there is entertainment actually available to you or not.

                                      Ok, so DCA's expansion has nothing to do with their Entertainment division. But I'd bet World of Color does. So really I still don't see any validity here. There's lots of things going on right now. Why is World of Color excluded as live entertainment? On the overall scale, there's more going on right now then there was when Animazement and Hunchback were shown.

                                      If you want a large variety of live stage shows beyond what they're giving you now, you should be going to Broadway, not DLR. DLR has plenty with all things considered. It is not far behind any specific point in time with the exception of the 1960s where they had certain famous performers in the park, but which was a very different time in history and hard to compare to today.

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                                      • #79
                                        Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                                        ^ First of all, the OP began with stating that they wanted more stage productions aside from the big name shows such as World of Color. The issue is that Disneyland once had both a production in the Fantasyland Theatre and a show running in the Hyperion at the same time.

                                        It was that way up until the theatre became home to the Princess Fantasy Faire.

                                        That is a step back.
                                        Friend walks into line of The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh-
                                        "Come on, Let's go see Country Bear- .......Oh."
                                        -August 1st 2010

                                        And this elevator traverls directly to The Twilight Zone The Gift Shop!
                                        -August 2nd 2010

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Re: Can we get some real entertainment?

                                          Originally posted by Walt Jr. View Post
                                          ^ First of all, the OP began with stating that they wanted more stage productions aside from the big name shows such as World of Color. The issue is that Disneyland once had both a production in the Fantasyland Theatre and a show running in the Hyperion at the same time.

                                          It was that way up until the theatre became home to the Princess Fantasy Faire.

                                          That is a step back.
                                          Why does WoC get pushed aside in the first place? When DLR had shows in the Fantasyland Theatre and the Hyperion, they didn't have the Jubilee. Seems just as balanced to me now as it ever was. That's all I'm saying. Like I said, I don't understand why the WoC show won't count.
                                          Last edited by scorsese; 12-22-2009, 03:47 PM.

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