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  • [Chat] To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

    With lots of controversy about changing the Disneyland classics such as Disney's Electrical Parade, Great Moments with Mr. Licoln, etc. the question is, when does something become such a classic that it should not change. Where do we draw the line between old and classic?

    What stops something from growing old. If something were to remain unchanged, or relatively unchanged for years and years and years then should it be updated to fit modern technology, or should it stay the same for the sake of nostalgia?

  • #2
    Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

    i think change is okay but only to keep up with the technology never to change the show.
    Pirates for example- I tought it was perfect and did not need any movie interfence, with maybe except for a nod here and there (i.e. the treasure chest before the main scenes)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

      Originally posted by winder*wonder View Post
      i think change is okay but only to keep up with the technology never to change the show.
      Pirates for example- I tought it was perfect and did not need any movie interfence, with maybe except for a nod here and there (i.e. the treasure chest before the main scenes)
      I agree updating the technology is one thing..adding things that don't really belong...that crosses the line.Adding Capt Jack to pirates(3 times)and messing with the storyline to fit the movies was crossing the line...I feel the same about the Disney characters in small world.
      "Alright you primative screwheads listen up.."BRUCE CAMPBELL

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

        It's a "feel" thing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

          Everyone has a different opinion, that's what makes the line so small that it's almost invisible.

          Personally, I like things to be left the way they are. I cherish old memories, and like to refresh them with each experience.

          Pirates is a good example; it used to be one of my all-time favorites. But now, with all the Jack Sparrows, it's not as good as it once was.

          Just about everything else in life changes too fast these days, it's always good to see something I'm familiar with.

          Rob

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

            Originally posted by ICe101 View Post
            Where do we draw the line between old and classic?
            When the reason for change is quick-buck marketing. Examples: Depp of the Caribbean, Tarzan's Treehouse.

            There are changes that not only update the physicality of the old attraction, but enhance its heart & soul. Examples: Fantasyland '83, Sleeping Beauty Castle walkthru '09.

            As Data said above, it's a "feel" thing. Some folks in Disney management can feel the difference. Most don't.

            Or as Louis Armstrong said, "If ya ain't got it in ya, ya can't blow it out."


            "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
            it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
            together with every variety of recreation and fun,
            designed to appeal to everyone."

            - Walt Disney

            "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
            - Michael Eisner

            "It's very symbiotic."
            - Bob Chapek

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

              Originally posted by sunrider View Post
              I agree updating the technology is one thing..adding things that don't really belong...that crosses the line.Adding Capt Jack to pirates(3 times)and messing with the storyline to fit the movies was crossing the line...I feel the same about the Disney characters in small world.
              I agree.
              I have nothing against over lays either.
              I actually like them.
              It gives the ride a change (for that season) and then the original ride is returned (untouched, per se)
              But adding something to a ride that has appealed to ppl for 50+ yrs (movie tie in's or to push plush sales) I don't agree with.
              Sure some of the rides were built to promote movies (in the early days) but they weren't in your face movie promotions (I don't think, my opinion), even Indy isn't so in your face...it's Indy, but a creative off link from the movies.
              Quote by Al:
              To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
              -Al Lutz


              Comment


              • #8
                Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                Originally posted by micromind View Post
                Pirates is a good example; it used to be one of my all-time favorites. But now, with all the Jack Sparrows, it's not as good as it once was.

                Just about everything else in life changes too fast these days, it's always good to see something I'm familiar with.

                Rob
                I really like what you said about "good to see something" that is familiar in a such fast paced always changing world.
                Why do you think ppl enjoy coming home (besides the family squabbles).
                Disneyland is like coming home (ok, my second home)
                Quote by Al:
                To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
                -Al Lutz


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                  Originally posted by DLFreak71 View Post
                  I agree.
                  I have nothing against over lays either.
                  I actually like them.
                  It gives the ride a change (for that season) and then the original ride is returned (untouched, per se)
                  But adding something to a ride that has appealed to ppl for 50+ yrs (movie tie in's or to push plush sales) I don't agree with.
                  Sure some of the rides were built to promote movies (in the early days) but they weren't in your face movie promotions (I don't think, my opinion), even Indy isn't so in your face...it's Indy, but a creative off link from the movies.
                  i have nothing against over lays my self but judgeing by how many people i hear hate HMH...that proves to me an overlay can also be a bad idea even during the season....
                  "Alright you primative screwheads listen up.."BRUCE CAMPBELL

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                    Well, some things needs an update, such as the Star Tours attraction, but as far as things like Mr. Lincoln should stay like it was originally, with just a few minor refurbishments. Of course, this is just my opinion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                      For me, I like to keep things that Walt had a hand in/touched to stay pretty much the same. Lighting and sound I have no problems being updated and should.
                      But we no longer have Walt with us and they way the company has changed certain things, I'm not sure Walt's vision is always in mind.
                      If Walt was alive, I'd say, do whatever you want.
                      Quote by Al:
                      To that end I'd like the Internet community to join me in reminding the Disney company that "it all started with Walt." As you can see below we've created some T-shirts, plus a few simple graphics that you can copy and paste into your websites to let folks know how you feel.
                      -Al Lutz


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                        Pirates is the only change I do NOT like.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                          This is actually a very important topic ... that I want to expand on later.....

                          But in short ..... I think the "line" should stop where it alters the story of the attraction. "Change" should be more in the technology. For instance ... the shadow effect of two pirates dueling it out in PotC. The newer piranha effect toward the end of Jungle Cruise. Refreshing the queue for Space Mountain, and the two lift sequences. Adding some new effects to Sleeping Beauty Castle walkthrough .. that work only to enhance the original 1957 visual style ........... those are all examples where modern technology helps to refresh an attraction for newer .. more modern audiences.

                          More to comment on later.
                          MY SIGNATURE:
                          Dear Peoplemover Fans, If you want to see a new attraction that at least mimics the 1967 Peoplemover in a future Tomorrowland remodel, you need to write to the powers-that-be, and let them know. If you don't - Then the next time Tomorrowland is remodeled, you will see a land barren of any "Peoplemover" type attraction.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                            Originally posted by sunrider View Post
                            I agree updating the technology is one thing..adding things that don't really belong...that crosses the line.Adding Capt Jack to pirates(3 times)and messing with the storyline to fit the movies was crossing the line...I feel the same about the Disney characters in small world.
                            The 3 Jacks I can live with. The messing with the storyline and cringe worthy new dialogue I cannot.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                              You use the classic formula.

                              (Years of operation)[(Walts influence in years) + 1][(initial reception)/(current reception)]

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                                Originally posted by micromind View Post
                                Everyone has a different opinion, that's what makes the line so small that it's almost invisible.

                                Personally, I like things to be left the way they are. I cherish old memories, and like to refresh them with each experience.

                                Pirates is a good example; it used to be one of my all-time favorites. But now, with all the Jack Sparrows, it's not as good as it once was.

                                Just about everything else in life changes too fast these days, it's always good to see something I'm familiar with.

                                Rob
                                I agree with Rob; just about everything in life changes too fast!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                                  It's a definitely a case by case scenario.

                                  For pirates I would have rather seen them update the technology in the area where the women are chasing the men since it seems sooooo tacky and unrealistic to have them on circular paths with no movement of the bodies.

                                  From what I understand, Fantasyland used to not look the way it does. I for one am glad they did a total rehaul of the design since I love the old European village look it has now.

                                  And the list goes on like that. You'd have to give me a list of _all_ the attractions/architecture/menus etc. in the park for me to tell you what needs change and what doesn't (which I actually think the Disney corp should do). But no matter what people won't agree 100% on the changes/non-changes so it's really hard to say where to draw that line.


                                  "How do I depreciate this rock?"

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                                    I think they should just ask us what to change or not. We'll let them know!
                                    sigpic
                                    Hidden Mickey - Historical fiction about Walt that mixes action and mystery with time travel and fantasy! Tweens to adults will enjoy these novels. And now, three gamebooks to play in Disneyland, DCA and WDW Magic Kingdom!


                                    Check out my six action/adventure novels about Walt's lost diary and his epic quest. Visit my blog page!


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                                    • #19
                                      Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                                      Originally posted by HiddenMickeyBook View Post
                                      I think they should just ask us what to change or not. We'll let them know!
                                      Haha thats a terrible idea.

                                      After thirty threads, four of which have polls, Disney would quickly see that we could never make our minds up about what can be changed, and to what extent.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Re: To Change or not to change? Where to draw the line

                                        Disneyland is all about progress.

                                        Your nostalgia will not matter once the new generation rolls in.

                                        That's the honest truth.

                                        I LOVE Jack Sparrow in pirates. I am also 16 years old.

                                        Comment

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