New "E" Ticket Rides

[DisneySavor]

I say as soon as possible(after current agreements) try like crazy to get Autopia upgraded with Fuel Cell Based Skateboard Cars like GM has(and showcases at the end of Test Track at Epcot).

This showcases the future, makes for a fun ride, and exposes people to new technology. The putter putter cars on the current Autopia are smelly and gross and need to be relegated to the past.

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I'm all for dropping RR in TL for a Mission: SPACE like in Epcot- It's an awesome ride(just needs better graphics during the simulation).

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Loved the Bambi Dark Ride idea in CC. I love the idea of clearing the whole North area above Disneyland of all the employee junk(moving what they can below ground) and really tapping into this unused land.

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I want to be shrunk again like when I was a kid. That was an awesome ride, and with modern tech, could really make for a great time.

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The whole of TL is totally underused, plus, they could be making it multilevel, and do more with the whole place. So much unnused or wasted land and building space(in Anaheim and MK... and Paris...)

[Jspider]

great gravy on the ladel or other such things :P

why must all these discussions revert into this whole debate scheme

ok first I shall discuss capacity of the park itself

as many people have pointed out mainstreet is the main bottleneck, so logicaly if you had a way of widening mainstreet or giving another way to get through it would do wonders for traffic flow. Enter the idea of Liberty Street as mentioned in a thread a few days ago, if you were to utilize the backstage area and simply make the parade run full circle around the park rather then going one way stopping for a while then going the other, you might do wonders for the traffic going in and out of the park (especialy durring the fireworks and busy seasons, Liberty Street would be a good way to cut around the Mainstreet traffic and continue to the exit of the park


now as far as these Nemo subs issues go I think that Tomorrowland has plenty of space as it is and the Lagoon/Matterhorn area has never felt like it is truly a part of the city of the future that Tomorrowland is. So I have often recommended letting that lagoon/Matterhorn area become it's own land (in label, it doesn't even need extra set pieces it just deserves a different name)

as far as the overlay itself goes, it seems to me that most if not all of the set pieces will be taken out and this whole dry for wet thing will be put in giving the ride totaly different scenes. to me this should be enough to fool most people into finding this attraction totaly new (with the exception of the outside lagoon, though from what I've heard they'll be expanding the show building a bit?)

I agree that the Autopia is a space hog but I do find it neat that they built the Subs under it, remeber if Disney really wanted to they could cut back the Autopia space and still use the bulk of that land or build several new rides ontop of the subs or something ooohh imagine being on a pathway ABOVE those waterfalls and looking down, there are many picturesque things Disney could do with that

[dshimel]

I say as soon as possible(after current agreements) try like crazy to get Autopia upgraded with Fuel Cell Based Skateboard Cars like GM has(and showcases at the end of Test Track at Epcot).

This showcases the future, makes for a fun ride, and exposes people to new technology. The putter putter cars on the current Autopia are smelly and gross and need to be relegated to the past.

Arg... fuel cells....

They're 10 times as expensive to build as gas, the fuel/mile cost is about 4 times as expensive as gas, the fuel loves to go BOOM in a way that makes gasoline look like water in comparison...... AND, even more poluting than gasoline*.

* currently, the vast majority of hydrogen is extracted by burning coal (releasing green house gasses) to super heat water, then injecting the super heated water into natural gas to break it down into Hydrogen and green house gasses.

This is by far the cheapest method of getting hydrogen for fuel cells, but releases even more green-house gasses than just burning gasoline in our cars. Other methods involve using electricity to extract the hydrogen from water. Most of our electricty comes from..... burning coal and natural gas.... Electrolysis is even more expensive and polluting than the method of extracting from natural gas with super heater water.

[dshimel]

why must all these discussions revert into this whole debate scheme

Debate is the result of people not agreeing, and seeking to persuade each other. There are a few types of threads...

1) Direct question. Why is Aladdin not showing on Friday this week?
Answer.. that's it. Thread dies.

2) What is your favorite...?
People answer, few read the answers, there is no room for debate (your favorite is your favorite), the thread dies.

3) What should..... what do you think... Of course, the dreaded "DCA sucks because..."
Everyone has an opinion, and the thread stays alive as people debate the pros and cons of the various options/positions.


So, to avoid these dabate threads, evey topic has to be a specific question or asking for your "favorite this or that". OR, you could all just agree with me...... not holding my breath.

ok first I shall discuss capacity of the park itself

as many people have pointed out mainstreet is the main bottleneck,

It is a major bottleneck, but there are many others. There are certain attractions that most guests will consider a "must do"... The capacity of those rides begins to be a major limitation on capacity of the park. Most people would consider Pirates a "must do". They'll start getting major angry guests if 16-hours of full operation can only process 40,000 people, but Disney let 60,000 people into the park that day... A full 1/3rd are simply out of luck. Sorry, don't get to ride the "best" ride in the park.

Fantasmic! viewing space and parade viewing space are other limitations. There are many other traffic choke points (Critter Country, Adventureland, Hub).

So, Disney could indeed do MAJOR rework of the park to up capacity. Widen walkways by giving up shop space, more walkways, reroute the parade, better Fantamic! viewing area, extend the park out behind Frontierland, continue to add E-Tickets and other rides.....

But, for the same amount of money they could just build a park in the parking lot, and increase "resort" capacity from 13-14 million a year to 20+ million a year.

This is the option DisCo chose. Make a second gate rather than just squeezing more peope in and out of the existing gate.

Perhaps 10 years from now, Disney Adventure Park will have grown to completely fill the Timon lot and will be pulling 8 million guests a year (without 2-for-1 ticket offers)...

Then Disney will build a 3rd gate in the Strawberry Field.... Perhaps someday(15 years after it opens) that park will also be at capacity.... The resort may be attracting 30 million people a year to its 3 gates instead of the pre-DCA cap of 13-14 million.



Then, for Disney's 75th birthday, they'll be doing all these "tricks" that will be needed to increase Disneyland-park's capacity above the 14 million a year mark.

Until then, there are better uses of the money.... like fixing DCA so that someday we'll get that 3rd gate.

[ModHatter]

It's a theme park, not one of the most deadly diseases known to the human race. Oh.. and people would pay tens of thousands of dollars to get a cure for cancer.... People aren't going to line up for the oppertunity to pay tens of thousands of dollars to experience "an exciting vision of a possible future".

Seems you left out a couple... InnerSpace, PeopleMover, Subs...

Let's expand the argument to include Future World... Horizons, World of Motion....

We'll flip it around...

Which rides in any Disney theme park are "a vision of a possible future", that operate today, are at least 10 years old, and haven't had major rework in the last 10 years?

A) Saying that something that hasn't been done can't be done is false.

B) Customers don't have to shell out tens of thousands of dollars to see a vision of the future. A family of four will spend about $200, and get three other Lands, and four additional themed environments.

So, now that the hyperbole is out of the way...

Yes, ATIS was removed to make way for Star Tours. Coincidentally, other such occurrences include Nature's Wonderland, Country Bears, the Mickey Mouse Club Cartoon Theater, Indian Village... It was also a rather foolish choice. Considering America Sings closed just two years after, without replacement for 10 years, and Mission to Mars followed suit four years later, the easternmost part of Tomorrowland wasn't doing so well, and creating an attraction that would draw people into the heart of Tomorrowland again would have been the better choice.

PeopleMover... again, still operating and drawing decent crowds in WDW. It suffered largely because that area of the park was laboring still under so many show-based attractions, including the two aforementioned closed attractions.

Submarines. The park's first E ticket. Back in 1959, before the World's Fair changed the capabilities of Disney attractions forever. It is the Jungle Cruise of Tomorrowland, but with much higher maintenance and accessibility issues. As well as update issues.

Not exactly a strong case for killing Tomorrowland for the sake of not having to update everything every 5 or 10 years. It's actually support for the argument in favor of an attraction mix that includes more rides. After all, would Tomorrowland have been better served by having Star Tours and ATIS, or Star Tours and Mission to Mars?

So, to re-address the issue I've already brought up, Future World did not have a good attraction mix wither. Haunted Mansion is a pseudo-thrill ride because, while the attraction just uses an Omnimover, the subject itself carries a wow factor. PotC has a thrilling subject, and two drops to add a pinch of vintage thrill. But the majority of pre-Epcot thrills were coming from Matterhorn, Space Mountain, and Big Thunder. Future World was a world devoid of "thrill." As previously mentioned, the closest Epcot got to thrill for a long time was Maelstrom, and then Body Wars.

The Future World of the 80s may have appealed to a certain demographic (myself included), but it didn't offer enough to a broad audience. It needed more excitement. But the story of Figment also proves that a ride doesn't have to travel at 60mph to be endearing. For that matter, Livin' with the Land, which isn't your typical thrill ride, manages to have huge queues despite being high capacity.

Aside from the ride mix, of course, part of Future World's real problem lies with the issue of sponsorship. I've actually read that Horizons was no longer structurally sound, but I don't know if that's accurate or just a smokescreen. What I do know is that the loss of sponsorship was what sealed the ride's fate. Similar situation with WoM. GM's original contract expired, and to keep the sponsorship, Disney had to agree to Imagineer a whole new concept based solely on automobiles.

So, to asnwer your final question...I'm hard pressed to think of any major attractions that haven't gotten a lot of work if they've been open more than 10 years. Splash has had to change its basic vehicle design twice now. HM gets a Holiday overlay every year now, and is still adding effects. PotC gets new AAs, and created the Gluttony scene in 1997, not to mention the Moonlight addition being talked about. Indy just turned 10, but has already been plagued by technical difficulties. BTMRR has had two major incidents and got re-tracked... So to apply a different standard to the East Side than to the West seems... unbalanced? But again, to re-restate the obvious, just because something hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't be done.

[Jspider]

as far as capcity goes, that's a yes and no answer

yes they did create a second gate to help add to the capacity of Disneyland by giving guests (especialy locals) somewere else to go on their visit to the park

but I think DCA was mostly created for the Resort idea more then it was created for getting more people into the area, DCA is a way to make it so that instead of only visiting Disneyland for one day the way most people do they'll visit Disneyland and then go out to DCA the second day and thus Disney earns twice the theoretical $$$ from those individuals (this keeps them from spending time at competitors as well)

[ModHatter]

Right... I think that they could have made Disneyland a two-day park rather than separate DCA. Then again, when DCA opened, they fully anticipated being able to sell a full-day-priced ticket for a half-day park... Realistically, if DCA was intended to increase capacity at DL, why didn't they initially offer a one-day hopper?

Still, the "Resort" notion would benefit from making Disneyland a two-day park. And you can actually continue the trend of dividing kiddies and the rest of the family by creating a full-day experience for both.

[CoasterMatt]

It's sad that Disneyland has been allowed to go 10 years without a new E-Ticket ANYWHERE (Rocket Rods was a D-ticket at best). Walt realized that Tomorrowland was going to need lots of work, lots of money, and lots of imagination.

[ModHatter]

It's sad that Disneyland has been allowed to go 10 years without a new E-Ticket ANYWHERE (Rocket Rods was a D-ticket at best). Walt realized that Tomorrowland was going to need lots of work, lots of money, and lots of imagination.

Yeah... and before Indy, it'd been, what, six years? I'll give them '90 as the usual year off between E tickets, but 15 years and only 1 e ticket, not a great track record. That should really have translated to 8 E tickets, or being lenient, maybe 5. Instead, one, and one bad Tomorrowland, and one new park with MAYbe 3 E tickets if you're feeling generous.

[Jspider]

Right... I think that they could have made Disneyland a two-day park rather than separate DCA. Then again, when DCA opened, they fully anticipated being able to sell a full-day-priced ticket for a half-day park... Realistically, if DCA was intended to increase capacity at DL, why didn't they initially offer a one-day hopper?

Still, the "Resort" notion would benefit from making Disneyland a two-day park. And you can actually continue the trend of dividing kiddies and the rest of the family by creating a full-day experience for both.

well... not really, you see people would still precieve Disneyland as a one day park, a second park is necessary to clarify to people that this is a multi day resort

in WDW it works in that Epcot is essentialy a two day park and the MK CAN be done in one day theoreticaly but as the most popular park it will extend into a 1.5-2 day park

so for Disneyland to expand itself successfuly into a resort it needed a two day park and a one day park at least, instead we got a 1 and a half day resort that was not advertised well so awareness and satisfaction have both been slow to rise (please not that many TOURISTS who are the aim of the resort are the ones who love DCA)

Resort can do better if BOTH Disneyland and DCA continue to BOTH expand into two day parks

[Jspider]

It's sad that Disneyland has been allowed to go 10 years without a new E-Ticket ANYWHERE (Rocket Rods was a D-ticket at best). Walt realized that Tomorrowland was going to need lots of work, lots of money, and lots of imagination.

Magic Kingdoms are more built out then the other parks and have shown to maintain high attendance with only small additions

WDW's Magic Kingdom's last Eticket was splash mountain and has thus gone without Eticket LONGER then Disneyland

if I'm not mistaken I think Tokyo Disneyland has gone without an Eticket just as long

basicaly Etickets arn't as neccessary to Disneyland as alot of fans would imagine, they're more effective in a second or third gate as far as profits are concerned (not to say Disneyland shouldn't get an Eticket but that it is pretty good right now)

I would be ok setting with upgrades to the older attractions in major overhauls of them and smaller rides to bring the quality of the resort up to higher standerds in the coming years

[ModHatter]

I think you agreed with my point I was making, which was actually in agreement with your post above it.

But, on another issue, comparing DL to WDW is a little risky for now. After all, WDW started out from day 1 as a resort destination. And until IoA opened, it really didn't have much in the way of direct competition. DL, on the other hand, has the unenviable task not only of competing against other LA parks, but now it is also being tasked with stealing business away from the wicked World of the East. Even people who live geographically closer to Anaheim will naturally tend to want to go to WDW instead. It's just cost effective.

So, because of direct competition with Knotts and SFMM, and even Universal to an extent, because the resort concept cannot be a success without something major to lure resort travelers away from Orlando, and because even with the stawberry field TDA can't just open a new park every time it feels the need to grow, Disneyland will have to add an E now and then and be more like a 2-day park until DCA learns how to be a one-day park and get people to give it another chance.

[BigPigletFan]

Autopia

Autopia has been the only attraction to remain in Disneyland since the park opened. It has been there for 50 years so why get rid of it now? It's cute and fun and if you remember as a kid how much fun it was to drive those cars? I do and I've only been driving for 2.5 years. I even have a picture of an Autopia CM holding me as a baby while my mom rode as my four-year-old brother wanted to drive. I bet that made his day. Where are the moms who post to share with comments from their kids? Remember it is a park for all ages and for families. E-tickets work for everyone and attractions like Autopia don't fall very far behind.

I must agree, I like the Bambi dark ride! (Although I can't get my DVD open...http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=1384)

[ModHatter]

Autopia has been the only attraction to remain in Disneyland since the park opened. It has been there for 50 years so why get rid of it now? It's cute and fun and if you remember as a kid how much fun it was to drive those cars? I do and I've only been driving for 2.5 years. I even have a picture of an Autopia CM holding me as a baby while my mom rode as my four-year-old brother wanted to drive. I bet that made his day. Where are the moms who post to share with comments from their kids? Remember it is a park for all ages and for families. E-tickets work for everyone and attractions like Autopia don't fall very far behind.

Well, actually, DRR and the Main St. vehicles were all there on opening day, as well as the Jungle Cruise, King Arthur's Carousel, Peter Pan, Toad, Tea Cups, Snow White, Mark Twain, Golden Horseshoe, and Storybookland.

I think part of the Autopia renovation program makes allowances for an update that would a) make the ride fit the Tomorrowland theme, and b) acknowledge that Autopia used to be two separate attractions, so the track does not have to take up as much space as it does to be a satisfactory ride AND allow for develpoment of new attractiosn back there as well. Let's remember, there are also those pesky MBC waterways that no one can do much with for the time being, because of Autopia.

I don't think many people want to grab some torches and chase Autopia out of the park like in some Universal monster movie. I think most people just want Tomorrowland to do a better job living up to its ideals.

[Disneyland Lover]

I now this will draw jeers, but I think 10 E-Tickets are enough for any one them park.

Jungle Cruise
Indy
Pirates
Mansion
Splash
BTMRR
Matterhorn FL-side
Matterhorn TL-side
Space Mt.
Star Tours

I think that is more than enough E-Tickets. Disney should focus on rehabs and plussing (like HMH and the recent new effects to mansion) rather than upping the E-Ticket ride count.

Maybe, should the lawsuit get settled, Mission:Space for Tomorrowland.

All E-Ticket money should go to DCA.

First, Each side of the Matterhorn are both considered the same attraction. Second, the Indy Speed way is only at Disney World (unless your talking about the Autopia, witch I would consider a D-ticket attraction). Third, I think they should have at least 12 considering that they have about 54 total attractions. [IMG]E-ticket[/IMG]

[MiceMan]

I am so very happy that they got tiki room open ... that makes me not really care about e tix right now i don't get why jungle cruise is considered e-ticket though

[ModHatter]

I am so very happy that they got tiki room open ... that makes me not really care about e tix right now i don't get why jungle cruise is considered e-ticket though

Well, when it originally opened, this was a big bruiser of an attraction. Look at it on a map, it's huge. And it's one of those things that people from all over the world associate with the park.

But yeah, that was decades ago. Rides depreciated under the actual ticket system, and certainly Jungle Cruise doesn't fit what we would now consider an E ticket. Still, if the ticket books were around today, I bet Disney would look at how many attractions they could open if they closed JC, and decide that if they kept the attraction, the ticket price would have to remain high to justify keeping it.