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How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

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  • #61
    Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

    Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Your understanding of emminent domain law is a little loose. If people don't want to move and sell, it's not as easy as you make it sound.
    The government can claim a house even if the owners don't want to sell. I'm not sure about a local city government though.

    I don't see how Disney could possibly claim emminent domain, but I do think that it's a possibility that they can buy up the houses and hotels, if they haven't already.

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    • #62
      Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

      Can someone technically savvy do a google map showing the sizing of the potential 3rd park sites mentioned in this thread?
      sigpic
      And always remember the law of the jungle - Don't Be a Zebra!

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      • #63
        Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

        While I don't have that exactly, I do have DisneySEA overlayed over the potential land. Note however that much of the backstage area for DisneySEA that is shared with Tokyo Disneyland is not shown here.

        Last edited by Trevor; 02-09-2011, 07:54 PM.

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        • #64
          Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

          Disney could, indeed, make another park with those. But there are major problems with this. If I'm correct, don't the CM park in the parking garage if the CM lot is full? If so, it could cause some overflow with the parking garage. Before they do any expansion, let alone a new park, they would have to upgrade the parking garage. And besides, the parking garage is long overdue for a upgrade.

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          • #65
            Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

            And another thing would be: how would they connect the parks? Unless they get the permission from the city to allow them to build a monorail track long enough to connect all three parks together, I don't see how they would do it.

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            • #66
              Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

              The third park may fit at the Toy Story lot location however I think that is a foolish location. The 2 parks of DL and DCA face each other, then there's that "third park" unconnected down the street. The 3rd park should be connected. Either between DLH and Ball road (demolish DTD and Mickey and Friends parking) or demolish PPH and the parking behind it and build the 3rd park there. That way the gates are within walking distance and build some monster garage offsite at Toy Story lot, that way the parking eyesores aren't around the resort at all.
              I'm all for the idea of tearing down PHP. That would be a great location for the third park.

              I was also thinking, what is directly behind Toon Town?

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              • #67
                Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                ^The area that PPH is in is too small for a park. And there's no way they'd ever tear down the parking structure when they have a perfectly usable plot of land sitting within walking distance of both current parks. And behind Toon Town is backstage, that one yellow building that I believe is for Disney University, and then the freeway.

                But yes, for a 3rd park, the general infrastructure of the resort would need to be upgraded.

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                • #68
                  Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                  Originally posted by KBobMan View Post
                  And another thing would be: how would they connect the parks? Unless they get the permission from the city to allow them to build a monorail track long enough to connect all three parks together, I don't see how they would do it.
                  There is a right of way there but Disney would need to get the city's permission to use it. Not easy, but not the hardest or most expensive part of the project by any means.

                  Originally posted by SydneyMouse View Post
                  I'm all for the idea of tearing down PHP. That would be a great location for the third park.

                  I was also thinking, what is directly behind Toon Town?
                  There is absolutly no land over at the hotels to fit a park. If the park is done well, there is absolutly no reason people won't make the 5 minute trip. If you consider how far apart the WDW parks are, that is not an issue.




                  I made a quick size comparison of some notable parks.

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                  • #69
                    Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                    Originally posted by Trevor View Post
                    ^DCA wasn't bad because they couldn't figure it out, it was bad because of huge budget restrictions and forceful mandates from upper management. Had the Imagineers been given free(er) reign, there is no reason to assume that they couldn't have produced a product in line with that which was received at Tokyo DisneySEA. (They opened around the same time)
                    The company my in-laws founded contracts with Disney, they consistently do the safety gates when you board rides (Big Thunder, Space Mountain, Pooh, among others) but they also bid on random theme elements around the park (I was at the shop the day they were assembling the lava rocks for Indy, they recently made a bridge for Cars Land and they're making a higher tech Potato Head for I forgot which park). Whenever I hear my husband and the family talk about their work with Disney, it's always about how Disney comes up with this insanely expensive and labor intensive project and when they hear how much it will actually cost to build, they either value engineer the hell out of it until it vaguely resembles what they were trying to do in the first place or they simply ignore some of the physical limitations -which is why Rocket Rods failed, everyone said that the People Mover track would physically not be able to withstand the Rocket Rods BEFORE they were built, but they did it anyway (the shop built a machine to clean up the mess that the tires made on Rocket Rods), so it's not simply a matter of giving the Imagineers more allowances. As much as we hear Blue Sky touting that the 'sky's the limit,' you're right, Disney is having trouble finding that perfect balance between value engineering and Imagineering but that still doesn't explain why a great deal of the attractions are prefab (lol can you tell that prefab is my biggest issue with DCA?). Any way you break it down, it's still a matter of Disney not being able to figure out what to do with the land.

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                    • #70
                      Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                      I think the practises you're referring to are from a very specific part of Disneyland's history that hasn't ended yet per say, but is definitely getting much, much, much better.

                      In any case, prefab doesn't have to be bad. It can just be done poorly. This is the mistake that was made with DCA and now that they have the mess, carving out good land use in DCA will be a major challenge.

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                      • #71
                        Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                        Originally posted by Trevor View Post
                        While I don't have that exactly, I do have DisneySEA overlayed over the potential land. Note however that much of the backstage area for DisneySEA that is shared with Tokyo Disneyland is not shown here.



                        thanks for the mapping!
                        sigpic
                        And always remember the law of the jungle - Don't Be a Zebra!

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                        • #72
                          Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                          Originally posted by Trevor View Post

                          There is absolutly no land over at the hotels to fit a park. If the park is done well, there is absolutly no reason people won't make the 5 minute trip. If you consider how far apart the WDW parks are, that is not an issue.
                          I still disagree. Size does not make a park. The size of a 3rd park doesn't need to be as large as DCA, if its say, a waterpark.

                          As for the other point, while it is true the parks at WDW are spread apart and guests accept it, you do not pass gas stations, off brand hotels and liquor stores while you are walking or bussing from park to park, so it is not at all the same experience as a DLR 3rd park "up the street" would be.

                          I still think its much smarter to control the variables and keep the parks closer together, while moving parking or hotels to the big offsite land.
                          sigpic
                          And always remember the law of the jungle - Don't Be a Zebra!

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                          • #73
                            Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                            ^Even still, pigs will fly before Disney decides to tear down one of their 3 resort hotels and put a landlocked theme park in it's place. That plot of land is even smaller than Knott's, and we all know how much fun they have trying to pile ride over ride. I could definitely see a water park going in that plot if the resort ever decided to construct one. But a theme park? I'd rather put it in where there is at least twice the amount of area to work with.

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                            • #74
                              Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                              Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                              Your understanding of emminent domain law is a little loose. If people don't want to move and sell, it's not as easy as you make it sound.

                              My understanding is dead on. Anaheim can take as much land as Disney wants.

                              Kelo v. City of New London, 545 U.S. 469 (2005)[1] was a case decided by the Supreme Court of the United States involving the use of eminent domain to transfer land from one private owner to another to further economic development. The case arose from the condemnation by New London, Connecticut, of privately owned real propertyeconomic growth qualified such redevelopment plans as a permissible "public use" under the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment.
                              "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money." - ​Walt Disney

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                              • #75
                                Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                                Explain the 7-Eleven and three hotels at the corner then if it's so easy for Disney to get Anaheim to force eminent domain closures of other property owners...

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                                • #76
                                  Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                                  I still say bury the backstage areas below the park and you'll free up 33% more surface areas to guests. Even some of the show buildings could be under the shops and restaurants. Or there could be restaurants on the second level, with shops and attractions underneath them.

                                  Building a three story park with three stories of underground, and you could effectively move some of DCA and Disneyland's backstage operations, and put them underground under the third park, too.

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                                  • #77
                                    Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                                    Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                                    Explain the 7-Eleven and three hotels at the corner then if it's so easy for Disney to get Anaheim to force eminent domain closures of other property owners...

                                    Because they don't want to spend "fair market value" ($110 million?) for what would currently be 180 parking spaces they don't need?

                                    But if/when they *need* that property to build a $3.5 billion third park, you better believe that they'd ask Anaheim to take the properties for them (realistically they'll just buy the commercial landholders out. That's easy. The part where they may have to take the land will be for some 80 year old cat lady that won't sell her townhouse for even a meeeellion dollars.). And when Anaheim is staring at $10s of millions a year in additional tax revenue, plus thousands of new jobs and full hotel rooms, you better believe they'll take them.
                                    "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money." - ​Walt Disney

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                                    • #78
                                      Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                                      The cat lady will get on the news and the anti Disney PR Campaign would sink their plans.

                                      I'm just saying you make it sound easier and more practical than it really is.

                                      But I will concede you're pretty well informed and not the "blue sky dreamer" I was expecting.

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                                      • #79
                                        Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                                        Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                                        The cat lady will get on the news and the anti Disney PR Campaign would sink their plans.

                                        I'm just saying you make it sound easier and more practical than it really is.

                                        But I will concede you're pretty well informed and not the "blue sky dreamer" I was expecting.

                                        Practically speaking, I can't imagine it happening at all. The commercial property owners will sell (if they are not actually just leasing the land from Disney anyway) in a handshake deal over the phone.

                                        Alright, I just did some checking. *All* currently built properties in block E S HARBOR BLVD, W S HASTER ST, N ORANGEWOOD AVE, S W KATELLA AVE in Anaheim (block containing proposed third park) are commercial properties currently leased. In other words, all the housing you see are rental units. So no cat lady. And even more interesting to us disney fans, is the fact that the 3.6 acre development on the SE corner, 111 W Orangewood, just closed on Sept. 27, 2010 for $21.5 million, which was almost TWICE its estimated value.

                                        You know what this means, boys. DL3 is on the move!
                                        "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money." - ​Walt Disney

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                                        • #80
                                          Re: How big could a the third dlr park be size wise?

                                          ^Excellent, I'm glad to hear that all of those units are commercially owned. How did you find all of that out?

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