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  • [Chat] Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

    I've been going to Disneyland since I was able to walk. I'm 46 now, but in my "youth" I don't recall the super-sized crowds that seem to fill the Park these days -- and seemingly even during "slow" periods.

    I know that on rare occasions, the Park will actually stop admitting additional guests, once a certain "cap" is reached.

    But what about other times? I sure would like to see some sort of limits put on the number of folk for any given day. Of course, from a business standpoint, this is unimaginable. But in other ways, it sure would be nice.

    Now, how to effect this? I've often thought that Disneyland could be a "reserved" affair. When I get tickets to see a stage production, I have to buy a ticket for a certain day and time. There are only so many seats. To have people standing in the aisles of a theatre, or sitting on each other's laps, is out of the question. So, why is it not the same with Disneyland? The Park has always been equated to a "show" -- yet seemingly these days, having a virtually unlimited number in the "audience" is encouraged as strongly as possible.

  • #2
    Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

    In theory Disney could charge a lot more for tickets and thereby have lower attendance without losing ticket revenue, but that is clearly not their plan. Given that Disney continues to offer low-priced annual passes, with an option for monthly payments, proves that (a) Disney doesn't think the park is too crowded, and (b) they aren't as interested in ticket revenue as they are in getting lots of locals to visit many times each year. Even with the AP program there are plenty of weekdays where the park isn't crowded at all; you just have to plan your visits more carefully if larger crowds are too inconvenient for you.

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    • #3
      Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

      Double the amount of an AP and watch attendance fall.
      sigpic

      This has been a Filmways presentation dahling.

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      • #4
        Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

        Originally posted by Druggas View Post
        Double the amount of an AP and watch attendance fall.

        I always thought of DL as being an inclusive family thing as opposed to exclusive. I mean it really wasn't that long ago you could get in for $40-$50 or so. I dunno... always strikes me as selfish when people want Disney to jack up prices and price out lower income families just so they don't have to deal with longer lines.

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        • #5
          Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

          Originally posted by noleafclover1980 View Post
          I always thought of DL as being an inclusive family thing as opposed to exclusive. I mean it really wasn't that long ago you could get in for $40-$50 or so. I dunno... always strikes me as selfish when people want Disney to jack up prices and price out lower income families just so they don't have to deal with longer lines.
          What year was that when they sold tickets at 40-50$?

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          • #6
            Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

            Originally posted by cadjoe321 View Post
            What year was that when they sold tickets at 40-50$?
            Not that long ago. 1 day ticket prices. Taken from: Disneyland, California Adventure Raise Admission Prices--Again. - Orange County News - Navel Gazing


            1981: $10.75
            1982: $12.00
            1984: $14.00
            1985: $17.95
            1986: $18.00
            1987: $21.50
            1990: $25.50
            1991: $27.50
            1993: $28.75
            1994: $31.00
            1999: $39.00
            January 2000: $41.00
            November 2000: $43.00
            2002: $45.00
            2003: $47.00
            2004: $49.75
            January 2005: $53.00
            June 2005: $56.00
            January 2006: $59.00
            September 2006: $63.00
            2007: $66.00
            2008: $69.00
            2009: $72.00
            2010: $76.00
            2011: $80.00

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            • #7
              Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

              The annual, incremental price increase is a small piece of business genius on Disney's part. Raise the price a little each year and people grow to expect and accept it. In five years it's gone up about 30% without it ever seeming like it changed very much at all. Genius.

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              • #8
                Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

                Originally posted by bee1000 View Post
                The annual, incremental price increase is a small piece of business genius on Disney's part. Raise the price a little each year and people grow to expect and accept it. In five years it's gone up about 30% without it ever seeming like it changed very much at all. Genius.
                If that's how you feel, alright.

                I can't visit the park nearly as much as I'd like to based off the price of daily admission alone. It may be 'Genius' but it sure does leave a bitter taste when instead of grabbing some food off property to go eat by the pool, I have to do it out of necessity because entry is roughly $400 for two people for a few days. Add insult to injury; there's really no off-season anymore since there's so much 'dirt in the filter' making 3 days a requirement in order to see enough attractions to be satisfied. Not to insult APs. But there's no denying a major price increase wouldn't weed out those who own a pass out of convenience and those out of passion.
                So if you think that's Genius, cool, but at the end of the day it's turning annual guests like me into once-every-few-years guest, also playing the role of frugal on-stage. I have no problem spending all my money I brought to spend at disneyland. I just don't like spending it all just to get in
                #just saying

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                • #9
                  Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

                  I would rather have more people in the parks because that means Disney will be thinking about expansion so they can fit more guests into the parks. If Disney is encouraged by high attendance, or as investors call it high profits, then share holders will be happy and will accept any plans to expand the parks. If we ever expect to see a third park, the attendance at the parks will have to be enormous. I accept this and hope that attendance continues to increase. Whether its AP or guests paying full price everyday, Disney makes more money on merchandise and food than they do on admission.
                  Check out my Disney inspired creations.

                  https://picasaweb.google.com/110319393135337100862

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                  • #10
                    Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

                    Unless you were to buy a ticket online for a certain day I would hate to plan a huge trip going to DL and not being able to go in because it was full. If they changed it where you have to buy tickets that were only good that day it might get complicated

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                    • #11
                      Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

                      Isn't it obvious by now that the company doesn't care how crowded it is there? If they did care, they would have done something real to address the problem by now. FastPass is just a cruel joke that only shifts the burden of waiting from some guests to others. The only real solution, other than voluntarily limiting the number of people they let in each day, is to increase the park's carrying capacity, by adding more park area and adding attractions. That's the only real solution, and that obviously costs a lot of money. But the company as a whole averages total sales of $100 million every single day, and profit of $20 million every single day - so money is not a problem for this company. I believe the one-day ticket price is too high, the experience is not worth $80 compared to what else you could do for $80 in one day. The annual pass prices are too low, in my opinion. They should raise the annual pass prices and use the money to expand the park's carrying capacity. Many of the annual pass buyers are Disneyland addicts and to an addict the price doesn't matter, only the availability matters. Part of the blame for the crowds and long lines lies with the company, but part of the blame also lies with the public, for agreeing to those conditions as acceptable. The only thing that will force the company to address the problem is if people stop pouring into the park in huge numbers. Lack of visitors is the only thing that forced them to expand DCA and that's the only thing that will force them to address the issue at Disneyland.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

                        Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
                        Isn't it obvious by now that the company doesn't care how crowded it is there? If they did care, they would have done something real to address the problem by now. FastPass is just a cruel joke that only shifts the burden of waiting from some guests to others. The only real solution, other than voluntarily limiting the number of people they let in each day, is to increase the park's carrying capacity, by adding more park area and adding attractions. That's the only real solution, and that obviously costs a lot of money. But the company as a whole averages total sales of $100 million every single day, and profit of $20 million every single day - so money is not a problem for this company. I believe the one-day ticket price is too high, the experience is not worth $80 compared to what else you could do for $80 in one day. The annual pass prices are too low, in my opinion. They should raise the annual pass prices and use the money to expand the park's carrying capacity. Many of the annual pass buyers are Disneyland addicts and to an addict the price doesn't matter, only the availability matters. Part of the blame for the crowds and long lines lies with the company, but part of the blame also lies with the public, for agreeing to those conditions as acceptable. The only thing that will force the company to address the problem is if people stop pouring into the park in huge numbers. Lack of visitors is the only thing that forced them to expand DCA and that's the only thing that will force them to address the issue at Disneyland.
                        Sounds a lot like me.
                        Getting rid of the AP Program would solve a lot of problems (all of them, imo).
                        It would re-create only one old problem: how to get people to come to DL for, say, $50/person/day.
                        That problem was solved for about 40 years, until someone decided that DL business model should mirror a mall instead of an iconic theme park.

                        ---------- Post added 07-28-2011 at 09:52 AM ----------

                        Originally posted by Werner View Post
                        I've been going to Disneyland since I was able to walk. I'm 46 now, but in my "youth" I don't recall the super-sized crowds that seem to fill the Park these days -- and seemingly even during "slow" periods.

                        I know that on rare occasions, the Park will actually stop admitting additional guests, once a certain "cap" is reached.

                        But what about other times? I sure would like to see some sort of limits put on the number of folk for any given day. Of course, from a business standpoint, this is unimaginable. But in other ways, it sure would be nice.

                        Now, how to effect this? I've often thought that Disneyland could be a "reserved" affair. When I get tickets to see a stage production, I have to buy a ticket for a certain day and time. There are only so many seats. To have people standing in the aisles of a theatre, or sitting on each other's laps, is out of the question. So, why is it not the same with Disneyland? The Park has always been equated to a "show" -- yet seemingly these days, having a virtually unlimited number in the "audience" is encouraged as strongly as possible.
                        Solution, for you, is to stop going. Maybe it will catch on.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

                          Originally posted by Hamburgler View Post
                          ...Add insult to injury; there's really no off-season anymore since there's so much 'dirt in the filter' making 3 days a requirement in order to see enough attractions to be satisfied...
                          There absolutely is an off-season! For example, I went to Disneyland on Monday, January 31, 2011 (a beautiful sunny day), with my almost-5 year old nephew and his parents. We easily covered the entire park, including going on Space Mountain 3 times, Big Thunder 3 or 4 times, Pirates twice, all the Fantasyland dark rides, and we spent at least half an hour on Tom Sawyer Island. We took breaks for lunch and snacks and never rushed anywhere. It simply is not true that Disneyland is always crowded.

                          On the other end of the spectrum, I've park-hopped on Sunday of Memorial Day weekend with my sister and we went on E-ticket rides 18 times and left the parks at 9 p.m. because we had done everything we wanted to do. That day also included breaks for lunch, the Animation Building and other little things. We could have stayed for fireworks and Fantasmic after going on all those rides, but decided to drive home instead.

                          There are a few days a year (leading up to the summer blockout, right after the summer blockout, and the last couple weeks of the year) when Disneyland can get filled to capacity. Those times are well known and easily avoided. The rest of the year the crowd level is manageable and at most an inconvenience (mainly if you want to watch the parade or the first Fantasmic). Sure, you can't show up at noon on a Saturday and expect to get on that many rides, but if you get to the park within an hour of opening you can go on every major ride by the time the fireworks start. Or make it easy on yourself and just go during the still-very-much-in-existence off-season.

                          ---------- Post added 07-28-2011 at 10:51 AM ----------

                          Originally posted by sediment View Post
                          ...Getting rid of the AP Program would solve a lot of problems (all of them, imo)...
                          Having a lot of people in the park is not a problem, it is the goal!

                          As I wrote above, the existence of cheap SoCal Annual Passes shows us that the business model for Disneyland is to get more people in the parks more often, even at the expense of daily ticket revenue. The fact that Disney followed up the So Cal APs with monthly payment plans proves that the business model is working.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

                            No offense, but I wish people stop this misnomer there is no longer an off season. I was there last September with a few friends for days and on the weekdays the place was completely dead. Ghost Galaxy had just opened a week before I think and it was a 10 min wait in the afternoon. The weekend was certainly busier, but calm. Everything was around 45 min wait tops. Most was 30 mins or under.

                            Maybe it doesnt LAST as long as in the past, but its definitely there!

                            Having a lot of people in the park is not a problem, it is the goal!

                            As I wrote above, the existence of cheap SoCal Annual Passes shows us that the business model for Disneyland is to get more people in the parks more often, even at the expense of daily ticket revenue. The fact that Disney followed up the So Cal APs with monthly payment plans proves that the business model is working.
                            Exactly! I think this disconnect is strange and I said this before that what as Disney fans consider a 'problem', the company itself considers it a 'solution'. I dont want to bring current events up here, but it kind of reminds me of whats going on in America with the debt crisis and two completely sides who sees the world VERY differently than the other side on how to solve a problem. In our case, its how does DL stays a great park and makes a profit at it. Most of the fans idea seems to be get rid of the cheap tickets, UP the Aps, make it smaller attendance and only allow the people with real money to go. Disney seems to think make it cheap enough where everyone can go as often and the more people who goes the more money it will make in the end.

                            Who is right and who is wrong? No clue lol. But end of the day is Disney has made its decision this is what is best for the company even though some of its fans disagree with it. The ONLY thing people can do is vote their wallets and go somewhere else and if enough do that, maybe changes will be made. I say this time and time again, but if you are complaining about the crowds and how Disney is 'killing' the magic, but go 15 times a year yourself, then complaining about it on the internet isnt going to do a thing. Its about ACTION, not words. You're very much apart of the problem you rail against even if you dont see it that way. IF you dont see it as an issue, then thats different.

                            I personnally have NO issues with the crowds though. If its TOO crowded, then no I dont like it, but its rarely THAT busy for me out of all the times I've gone not to enjoy it. You have to rack that up to going to TDR so much lol. And the reality is if you go EARLY, grab fastpasses and stay the day, you can pretty do everything you want anyway, its just about patience and planning your priorities. But if you just hate crowds, I understand, but going to a theme park hoping to avoid crowds is kind of like going to the beach to avoid water.
                            Last edited by WorldDisney; 07-28-2011, 05:16 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Historical Crowd Levels and the Future

                              Disneyland still has days when the park closes at 8:00 that tells me that there is still an off season.
                              Check out my Disney inspired creations.

                              https://picasaweb.google.com/110319393135337100862

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