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  • #81
    Originally posted by ah schucks
    As I was at the park last night, I found two things that struck me as odd and well off subject slightly was hoping someone could answer them;
    1.) Behind Disney's Playhouse and just the left of the Sunshine Plaza is a large studio, doesn't house any rides or movies that I am aware, does anyone know what that space is?
    2.) Behind the whorf and just to left of the end of Paradis Pier is a large wall scalling maybe 30-45 feet high and closes off any view across to conviention center and it appears that there is a building there, anybody know what this one is?

    The point of this is I was suprised at how little exspansion room they actually have, it was startling, to think about.

    Also to all the comments about Condor Flats- being the son of a pilot you all can forget re-working that area. Its great! They used real towers, real runway lights and the themeing is actually really good. You wanna complain about the building Soarin is contained in? ITS A HANGER- THEY AIN'T PURDY FOLKS. Get over it...should they get rid of the desert theme? Maybe but the desert and our aviation industry here in Cali are very much tied together. Oh its dirty and grimy? Find me a clean airport and I will show you an exception. Airports are dirty and simple and metalic. So leave it alone party peeps.
    1) I think the one behind Sunshine Plaza is for parades. And that's all we need, more got dang parades.
    2) If I recall correctly, this building is costuming.

    Aside from that, there is T&P to acquire permanently, and expand into. IT's actually big enough to hold two small lands. Then, you have Route 66, which by many accounts was only intended as a temporary placeholder until ticket sales helped pay back the costs of building the park. (Overly optimistic? Sure, but they didn't know that back then. Think Beastlie Kingdomme at AK.) Include in 66 the emtpy SF buildings, including Golden Dreams. I've seen more people in a phone booth. There's even a weird grassy knoll west of the little redwood creek thing that didn't seem to fill any purpose.

    Then you have Pacific Foodcourt, the sad little farm area, and the Un Fun Fair... there are lots of bits and pieces of DCA that can be collected into expansion lands.

    Look at Disneyland itself. Look how the West side got chopped up and expanded into (like the real frontier). Look how small world laid the groundwork for Toon Town... DCA isn't even as old as Disneyland was when it got a completed NOS and New Tomorrowland. So, if nothing was set in stone over in The Original, why should DCA be any more rigid, especially since it has been far less successful than its big brother?
    See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
    78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

    "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

    "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

    -- Walt Disney

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    • #82
      Originally posted by ah schucks
      1.) Behind Disney's Playhouse and just the left of the Sunshine Plaza is a large studio, doesn't house any rides or movies that I am aware, does anyone know what that space is?
      Tough to be a Bug. The queue is right behind the big hubcap.. You can see the backside of the hubcap from the ITTBAB queue.

      Originally posted by ah schucks
      2.) Behind the whorf and just to left of the end of Paradis Pier is a large wall scalling maybe 30-45 feet high and closes off any view across to conviention center and it appears that there is a building there, anybody know what this one is?
      Parade float storage/maintenance for MSEP and presumedly, new Block Party Bash.

      The "tunnel/cerial box" you go through going to Bugsland is really the roadway for the floats to get from that storage building to the start of the parade in the sunshine plaza.

      Comment


      • #83
        dshimel, I am almost 90% sure that the buidling I am describing is ABOVE Bug's life. You go way to far under ground to be in that building. I have been back there working EP and it does not look at all connected to Bug's Life.

        Also hubcap you mean Sun Ftn?






        Comment


        • #84
          Originally posted by ah schucks
          dshimel, I am almost 90% sure that the buidling I am describing is ABOVE Bug's life. You go way to far under ground to be in that building. I have been back there working EP and it does not look at all connected to Bug's Life.

          Also hubcap you mean Sun Ftn?
          I agree the building seems to be above bugs... But it is above bugs.... I just assumed much of the show mechanics were above the actual theater. Makes sense to design it that way since the tree of life is above it at DAK.

          This was a direct lift from DAK. If DAK housed the mechaincs in the "attack", which happens to be the tree of life, then they'd use the same blueprints, housiing the mechanics in the "attack" which happens to look like a barn.

          Sun Ftn? What's that..... In the entrance shopping mall, there are these mirrors that don't work that were supposed to shine the sun at a giant hubcap that is behind an ugly fountian that does little but make a lot of noise and take up otherwise unused space.

          Of all Disney park entrances, this one is BY FAR the lamest.... Guess they didn't want to pump you up with a grad entrance, then dump you into mundanly themed lands that would be a let-down by comparison. Ugly-run-down-airport and Six Flags Paradise Pier don't seem so bad after a lackluster entrance like DCA's shopping mall and giant hubcap.

          Comment


          • #85
            Over in the thread "DCA: Will it ever capture the magic" I stated the following and perhaps its more appropriate for this thread.

            <<I haven't read through this entire thread...and it occured to me to keep the name Disney's California Adventure, however, use it to tell the story of Disney and his adventure becoming the man he is/was.

            Disney wanted a park that his daughters could go to that was clean and safe. He felt the sea-side attractions were dirty and such. Use each region to build from the early boardwalk days and attractions to the 1955 Disney era and beyond. I.E. Hollywood Backlot circa 1950's...I'm sure some rethemeimg of areas would be required, but the Bountiful Farm area could be like Disneys home with his little train he had and it could provide in park transportation.

            Disneyland is what 55 acres? DCA is 45 approximately? The parking lot was 100 acres..use that area...build a twin parking structure next to Mickey and Friends. Give the park some depth and create a berm. You hit California Screamin and bam! nothing beyond it but the convention center and power lines.

            Transportation to and from the park is a must. It is tiresome to walk from Toontown all the way to esplanade to Screamin'. As mentioned in the Skyway to DCA thread the PM 2.0 is a means for this. SF has the BART system. Design a BART like car with a futuristic twist and have it deliver people near the SF Bay Bridge. Guests who want to transfer to DCA would be in a different colored cart and a cast member could switch tracks to exit the park just out of the Innoventions building and parallel the monorail track over to DCA and back. Guests that don't want to stop at DCA continue on the exisiting PM track. Those coming back from DCA enter into the park and continue on to the exisiting track back to the TL station.

            DCA has a lot of potential but making it about California is all wrong, but perhaps about Disney and his life and accomplishments in California and how we arrived where Disney is today with perhaps some new and epic rides in parking lot behind Screamin'.>>
            When living in Vegas - Sin as the sinners do!

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            • #86
              Originally posted by XterraceEmp
              Disneyland is what 55 acres? DCA is 45 approximately? The parking lot was 100 acres..use that area...build a twin parking structure next to Mickey and Friends.
              Total land in the "block" was 160 acres but that didn't include where DLH was built. 640 acres to a square mile, so you're looking at a plot that is a quarter mile wide and half a mile long.

              Originally DL was 45 acres "inside the berm", but took up a full half of the chunk of land with backstage areas and such. With the addition of NOS, Critter Country and Toontown, I beleive it is currently closer to 60 acres of guest area (including show buildings that are outside the berm). Another 20 or so is left of the backstage areas.

              Parking lot was closer to 80 acres than 100.

              Whack out 10-15 for GCH, DTD and entrance plaza, and you're left with 65ish. Original park was 45, but that has already grown a good 5 with the addition of ToT and Bugsland.

              That leaves a good 10-15 acres or so left in timon.

              And, yes, they plan to grow into that.

              When people talk about Disneyland needing a new E-Ticket, they should expect it to go into Timon. Not Adventureland, not Frontierland..... Timon.


              Originally posted by XterraceEmp
              Transportation to and from the park is a must. It is tiresome to walk from Toontown all the way to esplanade to Screamin'.
              They don't want you to think of it as 1 park that is half a mile across. It is two parks. One just under 1/4 mile sqaure, and another that is just under 1/4 mile square.

              Would you prefer WDW where it is 1/4 mile+ walk, couple mile bus ride, then 1/4 mile+ walk to get from the back of one park to the back of another?

              Magic Kingdoms are the only parks with in park transportation. WDW... well, you can get a ride across the bay, but you have to walk from the front of the park, for a good half mile throught Future World to get to the lagoon. MGM, none. DAK, none.

              And DCA is the smallest of the parks.


              Originally posted by XterraceEmp
              perhaps some new and epic rides in parking lot behind Screamin'.>>
              There is no parking lot behind Screamin... It is built right along Katella.... Okay it angles in a bit down by the boomer end, but there is really no room there.

              The room for growth is to the East of screamin', behind the Wharf, Bugsland and ToT.

              Comment


              • #87
                Don't forget that chunk of land between Hyperion Theatre and the old Superstar Limo- there is a big old eatery that failed miserably the building is actually quite large- perhaps a good place for Rock and Rollercoaster?






                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by ah schucks
                  Don't forget that chunk of land between Hyperion Theatre and the old Superstar Limo- there is a big old eatery that failed miserably the building is actually quite large- perhaps a good place for Rock and Rollercoaster?
                  The ride at MGM is "Rockin' Roller Coaster"....

                  I saw someone do an overlay of the RnRC building with HPB. It would take up the space of Timon lot drop off, Millionaire, SSL/MI, and H&D. With Monster's Inc going in dead center of that area, I think RnRC ain't happening there.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    There is no parking lot behind Screamin... It is built right along Katella.... Okay it angles in a bit down by the boomer end, but there is really no room there.

                    The room for growth is to the East of screamin', behind the Wharf, Bugsland and ToT.[/QUOTE]

                    Actually, if you look at the aerial pics, there is indeed space behind Screamin. Not a parking lot, or enough for a whole new land, but there's a decent-sized chunk behind the west end, if you queue it under/through Screamin'. Especially if they take out T&P, and can then reduce/remove that big driveway connected to Disney Way.
                    See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
                    78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

                    "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

                    "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

                    -- Walt Disney

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by ModHatter
                      Actually, if you look at the aerial pics, there is indeed space behind Screamin. Not a parking lot, or enough for a whole new land, but there's a decent-sized chunk behind the west end, if you queue it under/through Screamin'. Especially if they take out T&P, and can then reduce/remove that big driveway connected to Disney Way.
                      Yes, there are some office building back there. But, thre is also the road to get the parade flaots from the end of the parad route (by boomer) to the maintenance building.

                      The road to Timon and Pumba, I think, will likely become a tramway between the hotels and the 3rd gate in the Strawberry Patch.

                      Still, there isn't a parking lot or room for a berm behind Screamin.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by dshimel
                        Yes, there are some office building back there. But, thre is also the road to get the parade flaots from the end of the parad route (by boomer) to the maintenance building.

                        The road to Timon and Pumba, I think, will likely become a tramway between the hotels and the 3rd gate in the Strawberry Patch.

                        Still, there isn't a parking lot or room for a berm behind Screamin.
                        I suspect, if/when they expand into T&P, they will redo the parade route so it would be a more-or-less vertcal line south of Seasons of the Vine.Should solve the parade problem. (Or, there's my favorite solution, leaving the parades in Pasadena and keeping them out of the parks.)

                        With T&P gone, their tram stop will likely become the tramway for the 3rd gate. If more direct transportation is needed, the smart money is on utilizing the Monorail, since it already intersects the east side tram/ART stops. PMs or Monos could cross the streets and serve the 3rd Gate. I don't see trams as the way to go for that.
                        See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
                        78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

                        "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

                        "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

                        -- Walt Disney

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by ModHatter
                          I suspect, if/when they expand into T&P, they will redo the parade route so it would be a more-or-less vertcal line south of Seasons of the Vine.Should solve the parade problem. (Or, there's my favorite solution, leaving the parades in Pasadena and keeping them out of the parks.)

                          With T&P gone, their tram stop will likely become the tramway for the 3rd gate. If more direct transportation is needed, the smart money is on utilizing the Monorail, since it already intersects the east side tram/ART stops. PMs or Monos could cross the streets and serve the 3rd Gate. I don't see trams as the way to go for that.
                          I think the parade route is pretty well set. While you may not like them, they are a very cheap way of occupying a lot of people for a big chunk of time.

                          Monorails are very expensive to build.

                          Somewhere between $75 million and $150 million a mile.

                          Okay if you're building a 1 mile length of track into an E-Ticket attraction the way it was originally done at DL. Not cost effective if it is just seen as "transportation".

                          It would be WAY cheaper to run an underpass under the corner of Katella and Harbor. A typical freeway overpass costs in the neighborhood of $3 million to $5 million... for a tramway, it has to be a lot less as the road would be way Narrower.

                          AND, the tramway can actually carry more people as the trams are way cheaper than the monorail trains. Additional loading stations are also much easier as trams can just steer around each other, but monorail would need really expensive switch tracks.

                          This single underpass could be used for trams going to/from the new parking garage/3rd gate to the DL/DCA entrances, as well as to/from the existing hotels to/from the 3rd gate.

                          Given the choice of
                          1) $100 million monorail system connecting all 3 gates that had constant capacity issue.
                          2) $10 million tram-way that never had a capacity issue.... Plus a $90 million new E-Ticket for the parks....

                          Sorry, but I'm going with option 2.

                          The order of new monorail trains does give some promise to a future of monorail travel. However, I just don't think it is the best use of limited construction money.

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by dshimel
                            I think the parade route is pretty well set. While you may not like them, they are a very cheap way of occupying a lot of people for a big chunk of time.

                            Monorails are very expensive to build.

                            Somewhere between $75 million and $150 million a mile.
                            Well sure, if you start out with the wrong figures, your numbers are bound to look better. An Intamin monorail, for instance, costs less than $7 million a mile. Consider the following... monorails are basically pylons and prefab I beams. Even the Vegas monorail topped out at about $22 million/mile, and that included seven stops, which is a key factor in driving up costs.

                            But the point is, Disney will never need all the lanes currently behind Screamin, so that will add to the substantial usable space back there.

                            And as for parades... yes, I'm quite aware that parades will be a Disney staple, silly though they may be. However, the point is, the route is certainly not set in stone. Using the T&P expansion to create a more efficient path through DCA is just good business. And doing so will free up more space behind Screamin.
                            See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
                            78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

                            "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

                            "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

                            -- Walt Disney

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by ModHatter
                              Even the Vegas monorail topped out at about $22 million/mile, and that included seven stops, which is a key factor in driving up costs.
                              So, they sold $600 million in bonds and collected $48 million in other funding to fund a $22 million construction project? That, or it really cost the $350 million I've seen listed on dozens of sites + the cost of trains.


                              http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/La...#anchor2370965

                              "the project was fully funded, without using tax money of any kind, through the issuance (by Salomon Smith Barney) and subsequent sale of over $600 million in non-recourse, project revenue bonds."

                              "To assist the financing, the sponsoring resorts (Park Place, MGM-Mirage, Harrah's, Imperial Palace and Sahara) invested a total of $30 million in capital"

                              "To be completed in 39 to 42 months from notice to proceed, and costing about $350 million to design, construct, manufacture and install, test, and commission, the Las Vegas Monorail line will extend over almost 6.5 km (4 miles) of aerial guideway route, including the existing MGM/Bally's segment, with seven stations and a new vehicle maintenance and storage facility."


                              http://www.lvmonorail.com/about_04_fastfacts.html

                              "A $650 million financing plan that included bonds and contributions from resort properties along the alignment and the design-build contractors was developed. "

                              http://www.gamblingmagazine.com/mana...?C=280&A=11148

                              "At cost of 650 million US dollars, financed by a revenue bond, the monorail becomes the first privately-funded public transportation system in the United States."

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                but of that 650 million new trains were built and not to mention loss of revenue when the whole system was shut down due to parts falling off the actual monrail cars themselves...having to re-write portions of the driverless software and cover the cost of zero ridership to boot until testing of the trains was complete.

                                I don't necessarily think Disney would need to build 4 new trains to operate on expanded track which probably wouldn't be more than a 4 to 5 miles anyway. Here in Vegas it covers probably closer to 5 miles each direction. I'm sure some of the numbers are off since I didn't read any articles on the actual vegas monorail, but the strip isn't very long, however the monorail here does deviate toward the convention center which isn't on the strip nor the Las Vegas Hilton.
                                When living in Vegas - Sin as the sinners do!

                                Find me on MySpace

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                                • #96
                                  yeah, I'll agree that Los Vegas is a fine example admittedly having a monerail system a bit newer the DL's though they are using florida's old monerails o_o

                                  I do tend to agree with those who think it could be done cost effectivly in a way, Disney would need to rethink it a bit and engineer things but the truth is that more capcity/forms of transportation are better then just a few

                                  admitedly they would probably have to get rid of in park dropoffs but if they still give you a short tour of all the parks then it's perfectly fine if you ask me

                                  that said I don't think we'll be seeing a redone monerail for many years to come
                                  "We all have sparks, imagination! it's how our minds... create creations!"

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                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by ah schucks
                                    Don't forget that chunk of land between Hyperion Theatre and the old Superstar Limo- there is a big old eatery that failed miserably the building is actually quite large- perhaps a good place for Rock and Rollercoaster?
                                    Dear Walt in heaven, I hope they give us a better coaster than RnR. Take away the screaming Aerosmith (let's hear that again - Aerosmith - Disney - Aerosmith - Disney :lol: :confused: :lol: :lol: ) er, I'm sorry I'll start again.

                                    RnR is a good coaster (once you get past the incongruity of the Aerosmith/Disney thing), but you already have a coaster that goes upside down at DCA, you have a dark coaster at DL, why not do something new and -more important- Different? It seems that the rides that migrate from park to park suffer in the translation (I'm thinking of ToT in particular). A good themed dark ride or a walk through show with lots of special effects would be nice. I would Love another coaster, but Disney's coasters are somewhat on the mild side, even RnR (it's also too short but that's another thread).
                                    Check out some of the things that the east coast theme parks have done - Atlantis at Seaworld Orlando
                                    http://www.themeparkinsider.com/park...Attraction=247
                                    Spiderman at Universal's IoA
                                    http://www.themeparkinsider.com/park...Attraction=135
                                    Revenge of the Mummy
                                    http://www.themeparkinsider.com/park...ttraction=2857

                                    Yeah, I know you may have seen these before, but try to imagine something like that in the middle of DCA.
                                    No, I don't want to turn DCA into a clone of 6 Flags or Knott's, I'd just like to see some originality and excitement in what sounds to be a fairly banal park.

                                    Aerosmith...Disney :lol: :lol: :lol:


                                    War is over if you want it...

                                    Peace - Love - Mickey Mouse

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                                    • #98
                                      Also to all the comments about Condor Flats- being the son of a pilot you all can forget re-working that area. Its great! They used real towers, real runway lights and the themeing is actually really good. You wanna complain about the building Soarin is contained in? ITS A HANGER- THEY AIN'T PURDY FOLKS. Get over it...should they get rid of the desert theme? Maybe but the desert and our aviation industry here in Cali are very much tied together. Oh its dirty and grimy? Find me a clean airport and I will show you an exception. Airports are dirty and simple and metalic. So leave it alone party peeps.
                                      Ok so if that theme is already so immersive and cannot be improved upon, answer me this; dont most hangars actually have.. well I dunno... maybe PLANES in them? And maybe people in pilot suites, heck even a fake spill of oil on the concrete here and there might help. I dunno maybe some engine parts, some tools looking like they are lying around. Lockers with names on them... anything to hint that you are not just going through a deserted costco warehouse, and that people may actually GASP work there. If anything it should be MORE dingy, grungy and dirty as you said its a HANGAR. Keep in mind too, that this has to be more than a hangar, because that isnt what it really is, its a ride que so it has to somehow through the theme also be entertaining without breaking the themed illusion. It would have been nice to have a few real planes (or what looked like real planes) in the que so you get the idea re-inforced that its a real live working hangar, and again not some plain concrete and steel box with pictures on the walls.

                                      You do know originally in all the pre-opening DCA paraphenilia, that they stated this was a HANG GLIDER ride? Could maybe explain the ride cars that look nothing like airplanes, and why they basically gave up on the que. Just think about the name of the ride; does that describe a plane experience more, or a hang gliding one?

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally Posted by ModHatter
                                        Even the Vegas monorail topped out at about $22 million/mile, and that included seven stops, which is a key factor in driving up costs.

                                        Originally posted by dshimel
                                        So, they sold $600 million in bonds and collected $48 million in other funding to fund a $22 million construction project? That, or it really cost the $350 million I've seen listed on dozens of sites + the cost of trains.
                                        Now... first, do we see that $22 million/mile times 4 miles of track would not still equal $22 million?

                                        Besides, as you veer once again further and further off the topic... Las Vegas is but one monorail. Even if it were $88 million/mile as some sites like monorails.org claim, that's an isolated example that doesn't particularly apply to this situation.

                                        Does WDW use trams for resort guests? No. The two key transit systems are monorail and bus. So the odds of trying to use trams to take passengers from the current DLR to the third gate is fairly unlikely. Buses would use Disney Way and Katella. Monorails, or advanced PeopleMovers, would be able to skirt the outer edges of DLR property along Harbor and/or Katella.

                                        So, logically, can DCA use the wide driveway from T&P to Disney Way to expand when T&P goes away? Clearly.
                                        See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
                                        78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

                                        "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

                                        "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

                                        -- Walt Disney

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by ModHatter
                                          Now... first, do we see that $22 million/mile times 4 miles of track would not still equal $22 million?

                                          Besides, as you veer once again further and further off the topic... Las Vegas is but one monorail. Even if it were $88 million/mile as some sites like monorails.org claim, that's an isolated example that doesn't particularly apply to this situation.
                                          I missed the /mile.... my bad... Still, $88 million <> $350 million.

                                          Show me the quote where monorails.org said it was $88 million, because I see them saying $350 million.

                                          Originally posted by ModHatter
                                          Does WDW use trams for resort guests? No. The two key transit systems are monorail and bus.
                                          This is not true. WDW uses trams to get people from parking lots to theme park gates. Trams can handle more capacity. They use them for these short distance, high capacity demand runs.

                                          Busses are used for runs from hotels to parks... Why busses instead of trams? Because they're going up to 5 miles. At 10 MPH it could take up to a half hour to get where you're going, and that is a lot of oppertunity for idiots to drop stuff and try to jump off to get it, AND... you don't need the capacity from a hotel to a park that you need from a parking lot to a park... or in DL's case, a 4-hotel complex, to the 3rd gate a half-mile away. AND
                                          trams can't share roadways with regular cars, busses can. They'd need 50 miles of dedicated tramways to criss cross WDW property.

                                          Buss, long distances, higher speed sharing existing roads with vehicles.

                                          Trams are simply the fastest way to get mass quantities of people over short distances.... like the half mile from DLH to the Strawberry Patch.

                                          And, how many parks have they built at WDW in the last 20 years? Resorts? Monorail tracks?

                                          And a final point. Why no monorail or busses from Mickey and Friends to the parks?

                                          Originally posted by ModHatter
                                          So, logically, can DCA use the wide driveway from T&P to Disney Way to expand when T&P goes away? Clearly.
                                          Logically, sorry, but I don't see it happening. I still think it will be a dedicated tramway to get people from the hotel complex to the 3rd gate, and from the 2nd parking garage to DCA/DL.

                                          Comment

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