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  • CaliforniaAdventurer
    replied
    Re: Possible DCA Expansion Themes

    It is too small....

    I think a WINTER SPORTS area would be fun, with the Blizzard Beach style snow covered roofs and a big mountain with some sort of ride(s) based on skiing, snowboarding etc. You could ride a ski chair up the mountain and stand on your feet with skis in tracks and have a skitopia ride maybe. You just stay standing up and it takes you skiing down the track.

    Of course you have to be able to stay standing on your own feet to ride. If you're too small, too weak, too fat, sorry you can't ride. But 99% of us could!

    Leave a comment:


  • Professortango
    replied
    Re: Possible DCA Expansion Themes

    They need to remove Rt 66 and make the area San Fransisco. Or they they can do this in the place where the Incredibles ride is set to be. Id love to see a water coaster like they have at seaworld, but with an Alcatraz theme. Imagine the showroom in the center of an enlarged lagoon, the waves crashing against the rocky base of the forboding prison.

    And as for a Gold Rush expansion, I would like it to be in the forested area but the genious at Disney decided to build a giant hotel inside a park that was already too small to begin with.

    Leave a comment:


  • 2DieFR
    replied
    Re: Possible DCA Expansion Themes

    I'm fairly sure I read in one of Al's updates that after the "beautification project" currently underway in HPB, a possibe area to receive detail work and changes is Paradise Pier, to be a more accurate-to-history seaside amusement park of the early 1900's as opposed to the rather contemporary version present now. I am not sure how much confirmation backs up the statement, but I would definitely welcome such a plan, and if TDA knows what they're doing it is probably the smart thing to do. Some other things Al mentioned was an improved Sunshine Plaza and a re-themed Condor Flats. I think at this point in time, it is more important to fix the problems in the existing areas of DCA before new areas/lands/attractions are added. We saw how much of a change the E-ticket HToT did to park attendance.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaliforniaAdventurer
    replied
    Re: Possible DCA Expansion Themes

    Is it true that Paradise Pier will be more 1920s themed or is that only a rumor?

    Leave a comment:


  • ModHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer
    I don't think we need an L.A. themed area.... personally.

    Sorry J Spider... go see the real thing when you're in Southern CA.
    Yeah, I think the majority of LA is kinda covered by HPB, from a tourist perspective.

    Leave a comment:


  • CaliforniaAdventurer
    replied
    I don't think we need an L.A. themed area.... personally.

    Sorry J Spider... go see the real thing when you're in Southern CA.

    Leave a comment:


  • ModHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by dshimel
    Show me the quote where monorails.org said it was $88 million, because I see them saying $350 million.
    It's not tricky. Go to monorails.org and then click the link called Cost.

    Meanwhile... as I said, we're talking about resort guests, not park goers. AND, we're talking about crossing two major streets which, as you yourself said, trams can't do.

    Anyway, once again, let's just get back to the topic.

    Leave a comment:


  • dshimel
    replied
    Originally posted by ModHatter
    Now... first, do we see that $22 million/mile times 4 miles of track would not still equal $22 million?

    Besides, as you veer once again further and further off the topic... Las Vegas is but one monorail. Even if it were $88 million/mile as some sites like monorails.org claim, that's an isolated example that doesn't particularly apply to this situation.
    I missed the /mile.... my bad... Still, $88 million <> $350 million.

    Show me the quote where monorails.org said it was $88 million, because I see them saying $350 million.

    Originally posted by ModHatter
    Does WDW use trams for resort guests? No. The two key transit systems are monorail and bus.
    This is not true. WDW uses trams to get people from parking lots to theme park gates. Trams can handle more capacity. They use them for these short distance, high capacity demand runs.

    Busses are used for runs from hotels to parks... Why busses instead of trams? Because they're going up to 5 miles. At 10 MPH it could take up to a half hour to get where you're going, and that is a lot of oppertunity for idiots to drop stuff and try to jump off to get it, AND... you don't need the capacity from a hotel to a park that you need from a parking lot to a park... or in DL's case, a 4-hotel complex, to the 3rd gate a half-mile away. AND
    trams can't share roadways with regular cars, busses can. They'd need 50 miles of dedicated tramways to criss cross WDW property.

    Buss, long distances, higher speed sharing existing roads with vehicles.

    Trams are simply the fastest way to get mass quantities of people over short distances.... like the half mile from DLH to the Strawberry Patch.

    And, how many parks have they built at WDW in the last 20 years? Resorts? Monorail tracks?

    And a final point. Why no monorail or busses from Mickey and Friends to the parks?

    Originally posted by ModHatter
    So, logically, can DCA use the wide driveway from T&P to Disney Way to expand when T&P goes away? Clearly.
    Logically, sorry, but I don't see it happening. I still think it will be a dedicated tramway to get people from the hotel complex to the 3rd gate, and from the 2nd parking garage to DCA/DL.

    Leave a comment:


  • ModHatter
    replied
    Originally Posted by ModHatter
    Even the Vegas monorail topped out at about $22 million/mile, and that included seven stops, which is a key factor in driving up costs.

    Originally posted by dshimel
    So, they sold $600 million in bonds and collected $48 million in other funding to fund a $22 million construction project? That, or it really cost the $350 million I've seen listed on dozens of sites + the cost of trains.
    Now... first, do we see that $22 million/mile times 4 miles of track would not still equal $22 million?

    Besides, as you veer once again further and further off the topic... Las Vegas is but one monorail. Even if it were $88 million/mile as some sites like monorails.org claim, that's an isolated example that doesn't particularly apply to this situation.

    Does WDW use trams for resort guests? No. The two key transit systems are monorail and bus. So the odds of trying to use trams to take passengers from the current DLR to the third gate is fairly unlikely. Buses would use Disney Way and Katella. Monorails, or advanced PeopleMovers, would be able to skirt the outer edges of DLR property along Harbor and/or Katella.

    So, logically, can DCA use the wide driveway from T&P to Disney Way to expand when T&P goes away? Clearly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tigertail777
    replied
    Also to all the comments about Condor Flats- being the son of a pilot you all can forget re-working that area. Its great! They used real towers, real runway lights and the themeing is actually really good. You wanna complain about the building Soarin is contained in? ITS A HANGER- THEY AIN'T PURDY FOLKS. Get over it...should they get rid of the desert theme? Maybe but the desert and our aviation industry here in Cali are very much tied together. Oh its dirty and grimy? Find me a clean airport and I will show you an exception. Airports are dirty and simple and metalic. So leave it alone party peeps.
    Ok so if that theme is already so immersive and cannot be improved upon, answer me this; dont most hangars actually have.. well I dunno... maybe PLANES in them? And maybe people in pilot suites, heck even a fake spill of oil on the concrete here and there might help. I dunno maybe some engine parts, some tools looking like they are lying around. Lockers with names on them... anything to hint that you are not just going through a deserted costco warehouse, and that people may actually GASP work there. If anything it should be MORE dingy, grungy and dirty as you said its a HANGAR. Keep in mind too, that this has to be more than a hangar, because that isnt what it really is, its a ride que so it has to somehow through the theme also be entertaining without breaking the themed illusion. It would have been nice to have a few real planes (or what looked like real planes) in the que so you get the idea re-inforced that its a real live working hangar, and again not some plain concrete and steel box with pictures on the walls.

    You do know originally in all the pre-opening DCA paraphenilia, that they stated this was a HANG GLIDER ride? Could maybe explain the ride cars that look nothing like airplanes, and why they basically gave up on the que. Just think about the name of the ride; does that describe a plane experience more, or a hang gliding one?

    Leave a comment:


  • Momzilla59
    replied
    Originally posted by ah schucks
    Don't forget that chunk of land between Hyperion Theatre and the old Superstar Limo- there is a big old eatery that failed miserably the building is actually quite large- perhaps a good place for Rock and Rollercoaster?
    Dear Walt in heaven, I hope they give us a better coaster than RnR. Take away the screaming Aerosmith (let's hear that again - Aerosmith - Disney - Aerosmith - Disney :lol: :confused: :lol: :lol: ) er, I'm sorry I'll start again.

    RnR is a good coaster (once you get past the incongruity of the Aerosmith/Disney thing), but you already have a coaster that goes upside down at DCA, you have a dark coaster at DL, why not do something new and -more important- Different? It seems that the rides that migrate from park to park suffer in the translation (I'm thinking of ToT in particular). A good themed dark ride or a walk through show with lots of special effects would be nice. I would Love another coaster, but Disney's coasters are somewhat on the mild side, even RnR (it's also too short but that's another thread).
    Check out some of the things that the east coast theme parks have done - Atlantis at Seaworld Orlando
    http://www.themeparkinsider.com/park...Attraction=247
    Spiderman at Universal's IoA
    http://www.themeparkinsider.com/park...Attraction=135
    Revenge of the Mummy
    http://www.themeparkinsider.com/park...ttraction=2857

    Yeah, I know you may have seen these before, but try to imagine something like that in the middle of DCA.
    No, I don't want to turn DCA into a clone of 6 Flags or Knott's, I'd just like to see some originality and excitement in what sounds to be a fairly banal park.

    Aerosmith...Disney :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Leave a comment:


  • Jspider
    replied
    yeah, I'll agree that Los Vegas is a fine example admittedly having a monerail system a bit newer the DL's though they are using florida's old monerails o_o

    I do tend to agree with those who think it could be done cost effectivly in a way, Disney would need to rethink it a bit and engineer things but the truth is that more capcity/forms of transportation are better then just a few

    admitedly they would probably have to get rid of in park dropoffs but if they still give you a short tour of all the parks then it's perfectly fine if you ask me

    that said I don't think we'll be seeing a redone monerail for many years to come

    Leave a comment:


  • XterraceEmp
    replied
    but of that 650 million new trains were built and not to mention loss of revenue when the whole system was shut down due to parts falling off the actual monrail cars themselves...having to re-write portions of the driverless software and cover the cost of zero ridership to boot until testing of the trains was complete.

    I don't necessarily think Disney would need to build 4 new trains to operate on expanded track which probably wouldn't be more than a 4 to 5 miles anyway. Here in Vegas it covers probably closer to 5 miles each direction. I'm sure some of the numbers are off since I didn't read any articles on the actual vegas monorail, but the strip isn't very long, however the monorail here does deviate toward the convention center which isn't on the strip nor the Las Vegas Hilton.

    Leave a comment:


  • dshimel
    replied
    Originally posted by ModHatter
    Even the Vegas monorail topped out at about $22 million/mile, and that included seven stops, which is a key factor in driving up costs.
    So, they sold $600 million in bonds and collected $48 million in other funding to fund a $22 million construction project? That, or it really cost the $350 million I've seen listed on dozens of sites + the cost of trains.


    http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/La...#anchor2370965

    "the project was fully funded, without using tax money of any kind, through the issuance (by Salomon Smith Barney) and subsequent sale of over $600 million in non-recourse, project revenue bonds."

    "To assist the financing, the sponsoring resorts (Park Place, MGM-Mirage, Harrah's, Imperial Palace and Sahara) invested a total of $30 million in capital"

    "To be completed in 39 to 42 months from notice to proceed, and costing about $350 million to design, construct, manufacture and install, test, and commission, the Las Vegas Monorail line will extend over almost 6.5 km (4 miles) of aerial guideway route, including the existing MGM/Bally's segment, with seven stations and a new vehicle maintenance and storage facility."


    http://www.lvmonorail.com/about_04_fastfacts.html

    "A $650 million financing plan that included bonds and contributions from resort properties along the alignment and the design-build contractors was developed. "

    http://www.gamblingmagazine.com/mana...?C=280&A=11148

    "At cost of 650 million US dollars, financed by a revenue bond, the monorail becomes the first privately-funded public transportation system in the United States."

    Leave a comment:


  • ModHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by dshimel
    I think the parade route is pretty well set. While you may not like them, they are a very cheap way of occupying a lot of people for a big chunk of time.

    Monorails are very expensive to build.

    Somewhere between $75 million and $150 million a mile.
    Well sure, if you start out with the wrong figures, your numbers are bound to look better. An Intamin monorail, for instance, costs less than $7 million a mile. Consider the following... monorails are basically pylons and prefab I beams. Even the Vegas monorail topped out at about $22 million/mile, and that included seven stops, which is a key factor in driving up costs.

    But the point is, Disney will never need all the lanes currently behind Screamin, so that will add to the substantial usable space back there.

    And as for parades... yes, I'm quite aware that parades will be a Disney staple, silly though they may be. However, the point is, the route is certainly not set in stone. Using the T&P expansion to create a more efficient path through DCA is just good business. And doing so will free up more space behind Screamin.

    Leave a comment:


  • dshimel
    replied
    Originally posted by ModHatter
    I suspect, if/when they expand into T&P, they will redo the parade route so it would be a more-or-less vertcal line south of Seasons of the Vine.Should solve the parade problem. (Or, there's my favorite solution, leaving the parades in Pasadena and keeping them out of the parks.)

    With T&P gone, their tram stop will likely become the tramway for the 3rd gate. If more direct transportation is needed, the smart money is on utilizing the Monorail, since it already intersects the east side tram/ART stops. PMs or Monos could cross the streets and serve the 3rd Gate. I don't see trams as the way to go for that.
    I think the parade route is pretty well set. While you may not like them, they are a very cheap way of occupying a lot of people for a big chunk of time.

    Monorails are very expensive to build.

    Somewhere between $75 million and $150 million a mile.

    Okay if you're building a 1 mile length of track into an E-Ticket attraction the way it was originally done at DL. Not cost effective if it is just seen as "transportation".

    It would be WAY cheaper to run an underpass under the corner of Katella and Harbor. A typical freeway overpass costs in the neighborhood of $3 million to $5 million... for a tramway, it has to be a lot less as the road would be way Narrower.

    AND, the tramway can actually carry more people as the trams are way cheaper than the monorail trains. Additional loading stations are also much easier as trams can just steer around each other, but monorail would need really expensive switch tracks.

    This single underpass could be used for trams going to/from the new parking garage/3rd gate to the DL/DCA entrances, as well as to/from the existing hotels to/from the 3rd gate.

    Given the choice of
    1) $100 million monorail system connecting all 3 gates that had constant capacity issue.
    2) $10 million tram-way that never had a capacity issue.... Plus a $90 million new E-Ticket for the parks....

    Sorry, but I'm going with option 2.

    The order of new monorail trains does give some promise to a future of monorail travel. However, I just don't think it is the best use of limited construction money.

    Leave a comment:


  • ModHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by dshimel
    Yes, there are some office building back there. But, thre is also the road to get the parade flaots from the end of the parad route (by boomer) to the maintenance building.

    The road to Timon and Pumba, I think, will likely become a tramway between the hotels and the 3rd gate in the Strawberry Patch.

    Still, there isn't a parking lot or room for a berm behind Screamin.
    I suspect, if/when they expand into T&P, they will redo the parade route so it would be a more-or-less vertcal line south of Seasons of the Vine.Should solve the parade problem. (Or, there's my favorite solution, leaving the parades in Pasadena and keeping them out of the parks.)

    With T&P gone, their tram stop will likely become the tramway for the 3rd gate. If more direct transportation is needed, the smart money is on utilizing the Monorail, since it already intersects the east side tram/ART stops. PMs or Monos could cross the streets and serve the 3rd Gate. I don't see trams as the way to go for that.

    Leave a comment:


  • dshimel
    replied
    Originally posted by ModHatter
    Actually, if you look at the aerial pics, there is indeed space behind Screamin. Not a parking lot, or enough for a whole new land, but there's a decent-sized chunk behind the west end, if you queue it under/through Screamin'. Especially if they take out T&P, and can then reduce/remove that big driveway connected to Disney Way.
    Yes, there are some office building back there. But, thre is also the road to get the parade flaots from the end of the parad route (by boomer) to the maintenance building.

    The road to Timon and Pumba, I think, will likely become a tramway between the hotels and the 3rd gate in the Strawberry Patch.

    Still, there isn't a parking lot or room for a berm behind Screamin.

    Leave a comment:


  • ModHatter
    replied
    There is no parking lot behind Screamin... It is built right along Katella.... Okay it angles in a bit down by the boomer end, but there is really no room there.

    The room for growth is to the East of screamin', behind the Wharf, Bugsland and ToT.[/QUOTE]

    Actually, if you look at the aerial pics, there is indeed space behind Screamin. Not a parking lot, or enough for a whole new land, but there's a decent-sized chunk behind the west end, if you queue it under/through Screamin'. Especially if they take out T&P, and can then reduce/remove that big driveway connected to Disney Way.

    Leave a comment:


  • dshimel
    replied
    Originally posted by ah schucks
    Don't forget that chunk of land between Hyperion Theatre and the old Superstar Limo- there is a big old eatery that failed miserably the building is actually quite large- perhaps a good place for Rock and Rollercoaster?
    The ride at MGM is "Rockin' Roller Coaster"....

    I saw someone do an overlay of the RnRC building with HPB. It would take up the space of Timon lot drop off, Millionaire, SSL/MI, and H&D. With Monster's Inc going in dead center of that area, I think RnRC ain't happening there.

    Leave a comment:

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