The Origins of both Pirates and Haunted Mansion

[ah schucks]

Does anyone know the French story the Haunted Mansion and Pirates were based on? I went a few years ago with a literature major who mentioned a very unknown story that was the inspiration for both and connects them.

If anyone knows the author and book and if its been translated, I would be very thankful for the info

-OR-

Can anyone debunk this rumor?

[The Mad Hatter]

I've never heard of either ride being based on a specific historical story. I know POTC has influences from real pirates (ie:Laffites Landing sign when you load is based on the pirates Jean and Pierre Laffite).

[cellarhound]

Does anyone know the French story the Haunted Mansion and Pirates were based on? I went a few years ago with a literature major who mentioned a very unknown story that was the inspiration for both and connects them.

If anyone knows the author and book and if its been translated, I would be very thankful for the info

-OR-

Can anyone debunk this rumor?

I don't think they were but you can check out fan websites on the rides...

Haunted Manison

Pirates

They are made by the same guy... The History section of each site is thoroughly researched....

[Indy95]

I seriously doubt that these stories (or what's left of them) have been taken from any specific source. I mean, come on...how many stories can there be about pirates raiding a village or a man murdering his bride? Quite a few, I'd say.

[cellarhound]

I seriously doubt that these stories (or what's left of them) have been taken from any specific source. I mean, come on...how many stories can there be about pirates raiding a village or a man murdering his bride? Quite a few, I'd say.

Well, the pirate on the ship reminds me of a simplified version of Captain Morgan... But you know, not all pirates are men... I love the pictures of Anne Bonney and Mary Reed by the door of the ride... of course no body gets to see it because it is located in an odd location... I say more female pirates...

[ah schucks]

The story I heard was not well explained, but it went like this, a couple bride and groom living in New Orleans were about to get married when the husband was forced to goto see and become a pirate of sorts (one of the skeltons I was told) therefore the wife in her dilgence to her fiance waited years and years in the old decreped house while sutor after sutor came and they all become trapped and died in the house in some mysterious fashion--I am not sure if the husband then did reappear or not or just died on the open seas.

Now the evidence I was given was actually pretty interesting- Per example in Haunted Mansion after exiting the elevator, one of the painting is a ship, which changes from a normal ship to a black stormy ghost ship (like the black pearl). Then in Pirates as you enter the chambers of the Captain there is a painting of a women on the right side of the boat, above the bar, in the same style as the painting in the Haunted Mansion.

Now my understanding from this Lit major was that Disney never won the rights to this very unknown story and it was not to be acknowledged by the Imagineering department. Curious and curioser...

[The Mad Hatter]

I think the makers of POTC and HM did this on purpose just so people could use their imagination to create their own story.

[cellarhound]

Now the evidence I was given was actually pretty interesting- Per example in Haunted Mansion after exiting the elevator, one of the painting is a ship, which changes from a normal ship to a black stormy ghost ship (like the black pearl). Then in Pirates as you enter the chambers of the Captain there is a painting of a women on the right side of the boat, above the bar, in the same style as the painting in the Haunted Mansion.

Considering they used the same concept artists... and where in production/design at the same time... I am not surprised by this at all...

[Bacon]

During the creation of Haunted Mansion, there was a very loose story involving a sea captain and his bride. He died at sea. Thus the ship. That story was not adhered to strictly at all. As a matter of fact, Walt specifically said that he didn't want a cohesive story, just a loose series of scenes and a vague "history" of finding this abandom mansions.

[ah schucks]

Thanks Bacon, I knew I had heard something about that and while reading the link to the Haunted Mansion site that Cellerhound posted, I couldn't find much in there but I swore I had also read it somewhere, thought I was going crazy.

[dramaqueen]

This is what I heard about the Mansion when I worked there. It was suppossedly loosely based on a story about a soldier (civil war perhaps, I don't remember that part, but I thought that had something to do with its placement in New Orleans Square) who goes to war (on a ship somewhere) His bride is unfaithful to him while he is gone and he catches her when he comes home. He kills her suitor and also his wife (he cuts her head off- hence Madame Leota's presence) and then hangs himself in despair (his corpse is in the stretching room). I don't know how true it is, but it kinda makes sense, especially the bride in the attic.

[Bacon]

Yes, that is the original story. WDW's is more connected to that story. In the end, while elements of that story are still present in the Haunted Mansion, Walt wanted it less rigid than that.

[Not Afraid]

Now Phantom Manor has a specific story that the ride was designed to tell. It is not a classic or published story at all, but one created by WDI.

Pirates story is also a WDI creation.

[ModHatter]

Yeah, considering some of the concept art for Mansion, esp. when it was essentially a house of oddities or a walk-through, I'd say story was never more than a secondary concern. Although, I'd love to see whatever story accounted for the Octopus Tank!!!

[cellarhound]

This is what I heard about the Mansion when I worked there. It was suppossedly loosely based on a story about a soldier (civil war perhaps, I don't remember that part, but I thought that had something to do with its placement in New Orleans Square) who goes to war (on a ship somewhere) His bride is unfaithful to him while he is gone and he catches her when he comes home. He kills her suitor and also his wife (he cuts her head off- hence Madame Leota's presence) and then hangs himself in despair (his corpse is in the stretching room). I don't know how true it is, but it kinda makes sense, especially the bride in the attic.

My guess that was generated after the fact... Because there was the story that was supposed to be the ride, and then there was a story for the "Musieum of the Wierd..." Walt died before he could pick one, so it got mashed together...

So I bet this was picked as an explaination which would fit both the location and each experiance...

The great thing about ghost stories is that they all have comon elements like this... And they travel from place to place... I recomend researching ghost stories on Snopes.com... some are pretty cool...

What always gets me is that the house isn't from the NO area... but from New England...

[Reaver]

Although, I'd love to see whatever story accounted for the Octopus Tank!!!

Wha???

[The Mad Hatter]

He kills her suitor and also his wife (he cuts her head off- hence Madame Leota's presence) .

Then wouldn't the bride have no head? Or maybe that's why you can't see her face. But then again you do see her glowing eyes and her vale is sitting on something...unless it's just floating there.

[WickedQueen]

The story I heard was not well explained, but it went like this, a couple bride and groom living in New Orleans were about to get married when the husband was forced to goto see and become a pirate of sorts (one of the skeltons I was told) therefore the wife in her dilgence to her fiance waited years and years in the old decreped house while sutor after sutor came and they all become trapped and died in the house in some mysterious fashion--I am not sure if the husband then did reappear or not or just died on the open seas.

Now the evidence I was given was actually pretty interesting- Per example in Haunted Mansion after exiting the elevator, one of the painting is a ship, which changes from a normal ship to a black stormy ghost ship (like the black pearl). Then in Pirates as you enter the chambers of the Captain there is a painting of a women on the right side of the boat, above the bar, in the same style as the painting in the Haunted Mansion.

Now my understanding from this Lit major was that Disney never won the rights to this very unknown story and it was not to be acknowledged by the Imagineering department. Curious and curioser...

WOW!! OK so there are MANY differnt versions of this story ... this is what I have heard!
OK so there is a man and a woman. They are engadged. Their ship(The Columbia) that they own is parked in the front of their Mansion (The Haunted Mansion)! He has not told her that he has a dark past of being a pirate.
One day ... a few days before the wedding he tells her that he has to go on this trip, that he will be back ... and WHATEVER she does ... she should NOT go up to the attic. He is only supposed to be gone a few days ... but he is gone for longer then that. On her wedding day (that he is not there for), she gets curious and goes up to the attic. She puts on her dress, because she misses him, and she starts going through all the the things up there. The reason for all the dead people and jumping heads ... these are all of the people that he killed ... they are up there haunting the attic!

NOW THIS IS WHERE THE STORY BRANCHES OUT INTO DIFFERNT WAYS:

#1. MIDDLE: She finds out that he is a pirate and she can't handle the truth and throws herself out of the attic window (backwards). (Hence the reason the attraction goes backwards after you leave the attic ... as if you are falling) and kills herself!
#2. MIDDLE: She is up there looking through all of the items and he comes home and catches her! He is so outraged that she didn't listen to him ... that HE throws her out the window and kills her!

Now match the middle parts with the ending ones of the same number to make sense of the story:
#1. ENDING: He is so filled with grief that she killed herself that he hangs himself in the elevator shaft! (that is HIM!)
#2. ENDING: He feels so bad that he killed her that he hangs himself in the elevator shaft! (Him again)


These stories are suposed to link up the Haunted Mansion with the Columbia as well as Pirates! Pirates would be just showing you his old life style if you look at it from this story's point of view!


So there you go! How knows if these are right! I have talked to people at WDI and they are mum. I agree that they want us to come up with our own ideas. I recommend ANYONE who is interested in the Haunted Mansion to get the book about the Movie and the attractions in ALL the parks.
The attraction in Paris is the ONLY one that has a true story developed by WDI ... all the others are left up to us to decided!! The story for the one in Paris is AWESOME!! It includes BTMRR!!
The book is worth the money. Only one or two chapters are about the movie .. the rest is attraction facts!

[ModHatter]

Wha???

I'll see if I have a pic of it still. But when Disney Gallery had concept art related to HM, one of the pieces was like a huge well built into the floor, and it was supposed to house an octopus.

Looked like it belonged to the walkthrough HM concept, more than the Museum of the Weird with the Ghost Fish, etc.

[Bacon]

I'll see if I have a pic of it still. But when Disney Gallery had concept art related to HM, one of the pieces was like a huge well built into the floor, and it was supposed to house an octopus.

Looked like it belonged to the walkthrough HM concept, more than the Museum of the Weird with the Ghost Fish, etc.

Yes, those were Rolly Crump's sketches for the walk through. Sadly, while the final look, overseen by Marc Davis, was heavily inspired by Crump's MOTW concept art, none of his actual concepts made it into the final version.

How knows if these are right!

The answer is that none of them are "right". Or, another way to look at it, all of them are "right". The story was never finalized, and wasn't adhered to when creating the final version. So that leaves it up to each rider to make up their own version.