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The Origins of both Pirates and Haunted Mansion

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  • #21
    Can't find the darn octopus tank pic, but here's a caption fron another sketch, this one by Ken Anderson, c. 1957

    "One of Anderson's early visions of the Graveyard was a smaller scale "family plot" that appeared just behind the mansion. The well, in one early treatment, was used to dispose of a Captain's bride."
    See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
    78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

    "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

    "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

    -- Walt Disney

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    • #22
      {image link wasn't working, see my next post for a link to the page with the image}
      Last edited by Bacon; 03-11-2005, 01:47 PM.

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      • #23
        ^ So that didn't work...

        Anyway, that's one of the reasons I love HM so much. It can be so many different things to different people.
        "Tonight I wash my hands of you
        You set the bar I could not live up to
        Tonight the light is breaking through
        So thank you very little and send me postcards from hell"
        Zebrahead

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        • #24
          Hmm, it was working a second ago, guess they don't allow hotlinking.

          http://www.doombuggies.com/history3.htm

          Scroll down a bit.

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          • #25
            OK...now you're all making me nuts. Somewhere, recently, I read an article on just this subject. It even mentioned physical links between POTC and HM that still exist but are not used. For some reason, Jean LaFitte (sp?) figures into it. Now I'm going to have to search the house (or the 'net) and try to remember where I read this. :botox:
            "Yesterday, a man walked up to me and said, 'Isn't it a shame that Walt Disney couldn't be here to see this?' and I said, "He did see this, that's why it's here."
            -Art Linkletter July 17, 2005-


            When you wish upon a star your dreams come true.

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            • #26
              OK...found it. It's in Kevin Yee & Jason Schultz's book "101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland...chapters 27 and 35. I won't attempt to test the copyright laws by quoting here.
              "Yesterday, a man walked up to me and said, 'Isn't it a shame that Walt Disney couldn't be here to see this?' and I said, "He did see this, that's why it's here."
              -Art Linkletter July 17, 2005-


              When you wish upon a star your dreams come true.

              Comment


              • #27
                I appologize for this not being very insightful, but isn't the weather vein (spl?) on top of the mansion a ship? All of the stories I have heard is that he was a merchant sailor, killed his wife, yada yada yada, mostly all the same stuff already posted on this site. However, there are a lot of mentions of the sea and sailing in and around HM. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a connection between the two rides though.

                Think about it, put yourself into those early days of DL. NOS was the first new land opened after the park opened. We all know Walt was HUGE on theming, tieing everything into each other, etc. If you want evidence for that, just look at how Disneyland is laid out, where each land is, etc. Anyways, with NOS opening, the only two attractions really for that land were POTC, which Walt oversaw, and HM, which he wasn't able to see completed, but was around for the initial planning, design, etc. Even if it hasn't come out that there was intentionally a link between the two rides, I could definitely see Walt smiling one night as the thought came to him to make a land where all of the rides tied into each other story wise, and trying to find ways to do so as subtly as possible in order to immerse his guests into the experience even more. Wow, what started with just wanting to talk about a weather vein turned into somethin pretty lengthy, sorry lol.
                Here you leave today and enter the world of yesterday, tomorrow, and fantasy.

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                • #28
                  Well, you're on the right track. There apparently was a plan to tie POTC to the HM and to Tom Sawyer's island. Maybe if Uncle Walt had lived longer, it would have happened.
                  "Yesterday, a man walked up to me and said, 'Isn't it a shame that Walt Disney couldn't be here to see this?' and I said, "He did see this, that's why it's here."
                  -Art Linkletter July 17, 2005-


                  When you wish upon a star your dreams come true.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Ohhhhhhhhh

                    Originally posted by Tom Chaney
                    OK...found it. It's in Kevin Yee & Jason Schultz's book "101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland...chapters 27 and 35. I won't attempt to test the copyright laws by quoting here.
                    Can you paraphrase those chapters in a brief summerary? and is the book available online? and or can I find it at my local Barnes and Noble?






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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by dsnyfnatic
                      I wouldn't be surprised if there was a connection between the two rides though.
                      Yes, they are both set in New Orleans. New Orleans is a port city. Anything themed to New Orleans is invariably going to be linked to the sea. The two attractions are linked as much as Big Thunder is to the Golden Horseshoe. Same era, same themes. But any notions of a full backstory did not come from Walt, Crump, or Davis. They were built afterwards by the legions of guests and CMs.

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Bacon
                        Yes, they are both set in New Orleans. New Orleans is a port city. Anything themed to New Orleans is invariably going to be linked to the sea. The two attractions are linked as much as Big Thunder is to the Golden Horseshoe. Same era, same themes.
                        Mr. Bacon I don't think that was inferance he was trying to make. If the stories of HM, TSI and POTC were told in a similar time period with the intention of a linked story then it is different then the Frontierland containing Big Thunder and the Horseshoe...

                        Besides the TSI spoke of the story is rather odd- considering the story I preposed that linked them was a very un Disney, very morbid tale, that looks like it was toned down and split but connections and elements remained.






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                        • #32
                          Well, New Orleans is a city on the water, so the Captain with a ship on his weather vane doesn't necessarily tie in to Piracy. After all, when would you say PotC takes place, as compared to HM? Are the characters dressed as contemporaries? I've always thought that the characters are distinctly Edwardian in dress, or at least late Victorian. But Lafitte was dead by 1826, according to most scholars, and the ride seems to take us to a period in his history or before. So, there may be connections made between the two rides, but it seems to me they exist outside of the narrative.
                          See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
                          78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

                          "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

                          "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

                          -- Walt Disney

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by ah schucks
                            Mr. Bacon I don't think that was inferance he was trying to make. If the stories of HM, TSI and POTC were told in a similar time period with the intention of a linked story then it is different then the Frontierland containing Big Thunder and the Horseshoe...
                            I know that wasn't the inferance he was trying to make...I disagree with his inferance. I think it comes from people reading more into it than is there. He pointed to references to the sea as evidence of a link, but the only link that it's evidence of is their link to New Orleans. Like MH points out, there isn't even much evidence that the time periods coincide between the two attractions.

                            So again I'll say that any links between the attraction are superficial and due to their shared geographical theme. It's highly unlikely that anything more than that went into the design and execution, and anything more than a vague backstory has been the result of embelishment since the ride's been open. Not that there's anything wrong with that, Disneyland is a place of fantasy. But it's important to note that there was no intention of any official story, so arguments (and yes, I've seen arguments) over, "Gracey was a merchant sailor!" "No, he was a pirate captain!" are pointless, because he's either nothing or whatever you want him to be.

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                            • #34
                              The E ticket is usually the authority on history of these mythologies. I know that there are huge similarities to 1950s technicolor pirate movies, one in particular (i cant recall but saw it late one night and it has most of the show almost verbatum) that looks very inspirational.
                              "As usual he's taken over the coolest spot in the house"- Father re: Orville 1963

                              [FONT=Arial Narrow]

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                              • #35
                                From 101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland:

                                [quote]
                                Kevin Yee
                                MiceAge Columnist

                                I am the author of several Disney books:
                                Jason's Disneyland Almanac - a daily history of Disneyland
                                Walt Disney World Hidden History - tributes, homages, and ride remnants at WDW
                                Your Day at the Magic Kingdom
                                Mouse Trap
                                Tokyo Disney Made Easy
                                101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland
                                Magic Quizdom (The Disneyland Trivia Book)

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                                • #36
                                  Here's that "crypt" - it's between the Mansion and the raft dock.
                                  Attached Files
                                  Kevin Yee
                                  MiceAge Columnist

                                  I am the author of several Disney books:
                                  Jason's Disneyland Almanac - a daily history of Disneyland
                                  Walt Disney World Hidden History - tributes, homages, and ride remnants at WDW
                                  Your Day at the Magic Kingdom
                                  Mouse Trap
                                  Tokyo Disney Made Easy
                                  101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland
                                  Magic Quizdom (The Disneyland Trivia Book)

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I beleive the "Haunted Mansion from script to reality" or something akin to that title (the book on the movie, and the ride) does allude to the fact that the duelists in the ballroom are pirates or something simular to that.

                                    The story most are describing sounds like bluebeard, which was indeed something like one of the original ideas for HM according to X Atencio. I beleive the bluebeard story was written by a french man if I recall so that may be the story you are thinking of?

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Tigertail777
                                      The story most are describing sounds like bluebeard, which was indeed something like one of the original ideas for HM according to X Atencio. I beleive the bluebeard story was written by a french man if I recall so that may be the story you are thinking of?
                                      In the "sack o'booty" being dragged by the plundering pirates at the bottom of the final lift hill that was added a few years back has a painting that is from the movie Bluebeard.

                                      Kevin, what year was this unifying canal project conceived and started?

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                                      • #39
                                        [QUOTE=KevinYee]From 101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland:



                                        That is sooooo cool.
                                        Shocks
                                        Pegs
                                        Lucky!

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                                        • #40
                                          Bacon, ghost of Blackbeard was a Disney comedy from I think the 60's, BLUEbeard is a gruesome little literary tale about a pirate captain who takes a wife and never tells her he is a pirate, she then discovers dead bodies of women (or their heads.. cant remember) in the attic, and finds out just a little too late. The original Walk thru of HM was along these same gory lines. Atencio described a little of it to me, but was reluctant to elaborate too much. As I understand it, the hard to find #13 issue of E-ticket tells a lot about the original story and has rare concept art.

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