The Origins of both Pirates and Haunted Mansion

[ni_teach]

Both rides are NOT based on a story or book. There are stories inside the rides but the ride itself is not based on a book or anything.

There is a great article in the current version of E-ticket which has the most detailed information of the walk thru version of the ride (which was never built) that I have ever seen (complete with map).

http://www.the-e-ticket.com/

[travelmom]

Blackbeard is one of my favorite Disney films.
I love to point out the picture that was a prop in the movie in POTC

[MiceMan]

Yes, the plan was pitched when they were first re-doing the the NOS esplanade to fix the Fantasmic viewing areas, which was mid-1990s. It never went past blue-sky phase.

So that means that there was still no ORIGINAL idea by walt or whoever during the time that the two rides were built.

[KevinYee]

Yes, the plan was pitched when they were first re-doing the the NOS esplanade to fix the Fantasmic viewing areas, which was mid-1990s. It never went past blue-sky phase.

[Bacon]

Kevin, what year was this unifying canal project conceived and started?

Answering my own question, sort of, if 1764 was 200 years before one of the imageineer's birth dates, that means they were born in 1964. Assuming mid-20s as a reasonable minimum age for a contributing imagineer, that puts the time about contemporary with the NOS walk-way redo where they added the bridge over the Pirates queue. Am I right?

[Tigertail777]

Bacon, ghost of Blackbeard was a Disney comedy from I think the 60's, BLUEbeard is a gruesome little literary tale about a pirate captain who takes a wife and never tells her he is a pirate, she then discovers dead bodies of women (or their heads.. cant remember) in the attic, and finds out just a little too late. The original Walk thru of HM was along these same gory lines. Atencio described a little of it to me, but was reluctant to elaborate too much. As I understand it, the hard to find #13 issue of E-ticket tells a lot about the original story and has rare concept art.

[Star Speeder]

[QUOTE=KevinYee]From 101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland:



That is sooooo cool.

[Bacon]

The story most are describing sounds like bluebeard, which was indeed something like one of the original ideas for HM according to X Atencio. I beleive the bluebeard story was written by a french man if I recall so that may be the story you are thinking of?

In the "sack o'booty" being dragged by the plundering pirates at the bottom of the final lift hill that was added a few years back has a painting that is from the movie Bluebeard.

Kevin, what year was this unifying canal project conceived and started?

[Tigertail777]

I beleive the "Haunted Mansion from script to reality" or something akin to that title (the book on the movie, and the ride) does allude to the fact that the duelists in the ballroom are pirates or something simular to that.

The story most are describing sounds like bluebeard, which was indeed something like one of the original ideas for HM according to X Atencio. I beleive the bluebeard story was written by a french man if I recall so that may be the story you are thinking of?

[KevinYee]

Here's that "crypt" - it's between the Mansion and the raft dock.

[KevinYee]

From 101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland:

[quote]

[Cousin Orville]

The E ticket is usually the authority on history of these mythologies. I know that there are huge similarities to 1950s technicolor pirate movies, one in particular (i cant recall but saw it late one night and it has most of the show almost verbatum) that looks very inspirational.

[Bacon]

Mr. Bacon I don't think that was inferance he was trying to make. If the stories of HM, TSI and POTC were told in a similar time period with the intention of a linked story then it is different then the Frontierland containing Big Thunder and the Horseshoe...

I know that wasn't the inferance he was trying to make...I disagree with his inferance. I think it comes from people reading more into it than is there. He pointed to references to the sea as evidence of a link, but the only link that it's evidence of is their link to New Orleans. Like MH points out, there isn't even much evidence that the time periods coincide between the two attractions.

So again I'll say that any links between the attraction are superficial and due to their shared geographical theme. It's highly unlikely that anything more than that went into the design and execution, and anything more than a vague backstory has been the result of embelishment since the ride's been open. Not that there's anything wrong with that, Disneyland is a place of fantasy. But it's important to note that there was no intention of any official story, so arguments (and yes, I've seen arguments) over, "Gracey was a merchant sailor!" "No, he was a pirate captain!" are pointless, because he's either nothing or whatever you want him to be.

[ModHatter]

Well, New Orleans is a city on the water, so the Captain with a ship on his weather vane doesn't necessarily tie in to Piracy. After all, when would you say PotC takes place, as compared to HM? Are the characters dressed as contemporaries? I've always thought that the characters are distinctly Edwardian in dress, or at least late Victorian. But Lafitte was dead by 1826, according to most scholars, and the ride seems to take us to a period in his history or before. So, there may be connections made between the two rides, but it seems to me they exist outside of the narrative.

[ah schucks]

Yes, they are both set in New Orleans. New Orleans is a port city. Anything themed to New Orleans is invariably going to be linked to the sea. The two attractions are linked as much as Big Thunder is to the Golden Horseshoe. Same era, same themes.

Mr. Bacon I don't think that was inferance he was trying to make. If the stories of HM, TSI and POTC were told in a similar time period with the intention of a linked story then it is different then the Frontierland containing Big Thunder and the Horseshoe...

Besides the TSI spoke of the story is rather odd- considering the story I preposed that linked them was a very un Disney, very morbid tale, that looks like it was toned down and split but connections and elements remained.

[Bacon]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a connection between the two rides though.

Yes, they are both set in New Orleans. New Orleans is a port city. Anything themed to New Orleans is invariably going to be linked to the sea. The two attractions are linked as much as Big Thunder is to the Golden Horseshoe. Same era, same themes. But any notions of a full backstory did not come from Walt, Crump, or Davis. They were built afterwards by the legions of guests and CMs.

[ah schucks]

Ohhhhhhhhh

OK...found it. It's in Kevin Yee & Jason Schultz's book "101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland...chapters 27 and 35. I won't attempt to test the copyright laws by quoting here.

Can you paraphrase those chapters in a brief summerary? and is the book available online? and or can I find it at my local Barnes and Noble?

[Tom Chaney]

Well, you're on the right track. There apparently was a plan to tie POTC to the HM and to Tom Sawyer's island. Maybe if Uncle Walt had lived longer, it would have happened.

[dsnyfnatic]

I appologize for this not being very insightful, but isn't the weather vein (spl?) on top of the mansion a ship? All of the stories I have heard is that he was a merchant sailor, killed his wife, yada yada yada, mostly all the same stuff already posted on this site. However, there are a lot of mentions of the sea and sailing in and around HM. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a connection between the two rides though.

Think about it, put yourself into those early days of DL. NOS was the first new land opened after the park opened. We all know Walt was HUGE on theming, tieing everything into each other, etc. If you want evidence for that, just look at how Disneyland is laid out, where each land is, etc. Anyways, with NOS opening, the only two attractions really for that land were POTC, which Walt oversaw, and HM, which he wasn't able to see completed, but was around for the initial planning, design, etc. Even if it hasn't come out that there was intentionally a link between the two rides, I could definitely see Walt smiling one night as the thought came to him to make a land where all of the rides tied into each other story wise, and trying to find ways to do so as subtly as possible in order to immerse his guests into the experience even more. Wow, what started with just wanting to talk about a weather vein turned into somethin pretty lengthy, sorry lol.

[Tom Chaney]

OK...found it. It's in Kevin Yee & Jason Schultz's book "101 Things You Never Knew About Disneyland...chapters 27 and 35. I won't attempt to test the copyright laws by quoting here.