[Other] Articles about Closing Subs

[chesirecat]

I found an interesting article about the public battle waged by Imagineers to keep the subs open, and Paul Pressler who complained that the subs took up too much, "storage space".

Back from the depths - Los Angeles Times

Interesting points.

Marty Sklar hired a naval engineering firm to look at subs and they said they had 40 to 50 years of life left in them. (You'll see why he might have done this as the couch potatoes in Maintenance at WDW made up stories so that they'd have to do less work!)

One website says that the 20,000 sub ride in WDW was closed when Eisner asked for savings cuts, and maintenance workers hated the ride so they took advantage of the situation to save some money and not have to hassle with maintenance. Then even went to far as to pull a fast one on Michael Ovitz by making the ride look like it was unsafe and on the verge of falling apart.

20,000 Leagues Into The Toilet by ED Tucker *** A Crazed Fanboy Presentation

Here are some interesting Jim Hill articles,

What actually became of 20K's submarines: Part I

What actually became of 20K's submarines: Part II

Jim Hill said that subs in Magic Kingdom had to be shut-down for three months of the year, and hence was a maintenance nightmare. How long do Disneyland's subs go down for? Certainly not that long? I know that they use special glass-based pigments which will make the colors last much longer, thus requiring less maintenance.

[dfan07]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

Jim Hill said that subs in Magic Kingdom had to be shut-down for three months of the year, and hence was a maintenance nightmare. How long do Disneyland's subs go down for? Certainly not that long? I know that they use special glass-based pigments which will make the colors last much longer, thus requiring less maintenance.

Disneyland's subs (the current version) haven't gone down for any extended period of time. The majority of the indoor scenes are "dry-for-wet" and do not require as much maintenance as the fully submerged scenes. Some of the outdoor portion of the ride is beginning to look faded, and will need to be repainted when the attraction is drained. The subs themselves are refurbished one at a time in a dry dock backstage.

The majority of the attraction's maintenance costs come from projector lamp replacement, something that can be done overnight.

[mondo]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

It seems like Nemos Sub might be closing because of maintenance and capacity. Why did they think it would have been different this time because it has the same problem as the original?
Are there any differences between both version for maintenance? I will be a waste if Nemo closes for the same reason as the original

[Koutesu]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

I wonder if Paul Pressler is jumping for the joy that DCA has even more retail than before plus the Subs are rumored to close again?

[Disneytwins]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

Paul Pressler probably doesn't even know the subs were reopened. He's a businessman, if he isn't involved with a company at the time being, he probably doesn't care about it.

[chesirecat]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

Disneyland's subs (the current version) haven't gone down for any extended period of time. The majority of the indoor scenes are "dry-for-wet" and do not require as much maintenance as the fully submerged scenes. Some of the outdoor portion of the ride is beginning to look faded, and will need to be repainted when the attraction is drained. The subs themselves are refurbished one at a time in a dry dock backstage.

The majority of the attraction's maintenance costs come from projector lamp replacement, something that can be done overnight.

A projector bulb lasts about 3,000 hours, from looking around the web a bit, without under-driving it, and I am guessing the bulbs cost about $500.

So, I figure that with ten hours of operation per day, a single projector bulb would last about ten months. There are other factors involved, such as cooling of the bulb. But if the under-drive the projector bulbs by about 20%, you've got a 50% increase in lifespan, so if they did that then theoretically you've got a 6,000 hour bulb, which would last more than a year.

Let's say they have 20 projectors bulbs in use, then one or two bulb would blow out every month. That would cost about a thousand dollars a month.

I think the real issue is that maintenance has to check the projectors to make sure they are working, though if they could get projectors that switch to a back-up bulb, then they could check the projectors at a pre-specified time each month.

Assuming the have the space, replace these projectors with the new ones that use an LED/laser source. I am 99% sure that they are running the sub projectors in "economy" mode, or in other words, under-driving them as some scene definitely look dimmer. With an LED/laser light source, you can have brightness and a long life.

If given a budget, I bet I could even rig a system with fiber-optics to provide the light for the projectors from an easily serviceable location, and perhaps using a couple of LED light sources to power the older models of projectors they have (different spectrum when compared to incandescents, but I would play around with primary colors and try to find something, you could under-drive an "array" of project bulbs such that they would last years and years, and calibrate so that you have the approximate intensity). That way you could monitor the quality/intensity of the light source. I would 100% do it, even if it voids the warranty on a projector!

I do have experience with this stuff, I built an exact replica of the Disneyland "twinkle lights" in my front yard by significantly under-driving 14-V 258 flashers in custom hand-made E-10 weather proof sockets I designed, which are even smaller (less noticeable) than the ones in the hub, the exact same type of bulb used in the classic flasher lights in the hub, storybook land canal boats, and even in Small World on the blinky flowers. My 258 flashers have a lifespan of something like 300 hours at 14 V, but I bet they last something like +10,000 at half voltage or less. If possible, they could precisely under-drive brighter bulbs than what the projectors require so that they last for years. It just takes some tinkering to get it right. Manufacturers *design* incandescents to fail at a certain lifespan, usually around 3,000, but if you under-drive them they last many, many times longer, its all about making money for the bulb company.

[Werner]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

A projector bulb lasts about 3,000 hours, from looking around the web a bit, without under-driving it, and I am guessing the bulbs cost about $500.

So, I figure that with ten hours of operation per day, a single projector bulb would last about ten months. There are other factors involved, such as cooling of the bulb. But if the under-drive the projector bulbs by about 20%, you've got a 50% increase in lifespan, so if they did that then theoretically you've got a 6,000 hour bulb, which would last more than a year.

Let's say they have 20 projectors bulbs in use, then one or two bulb would blow out every month. That would cost about a thousand dollars a month.

I think the real issue is that maintenance has to check the projectors to make sure they are working, though if they could get projectors that switch to a back-up bulb, then they could check the projectors at a pre-specified time each month.

Assuming the have the space, replace these projectors with the new ones that use an LED/laser source. I am 99% sure that they are running the sub projectors in "economy" mode, or in other words, under-driving them as some scene definitely look dimmer. With an LED/laser light source, you can have brightness and a long life.

If given a budget, I bet I could even rig a system with fiber-optics to provide the light for the projectors from an easily serviceable location, and perhaps using a couple of LED light sources to power the older models of projectors they have (different spectrum when compared to incandescents, but I would play around with primary colors and try to find something, you could under-drive an "array" of project bulbs such that they would last years and years, and calibrate so that you have the approximate intensity). That way you could monitor the quality/intensity of the light source. I would 100% do it, even if it voids the warranty on a projector!

I do have experience with this stuff, I built an exact replica of the Disneyland "twinkle lights" in my front yard by significantly under-driving 14-V 258 flashers in custom hand-made E-10 weather proof sockets I designed, which are even smaller (less noticeable) than the ones in the hub, the exact same type of bulb used in the classic flasher lights in the hub, storybook land canal boats, and even in Small World on the blinky flowers. My 258 flashers have a lifespan of something like 300 hours at 14 V, but I bet they last something like +10,000 at half voltage or less. If possible, they could precisely under-drive brighter bulbs than what the projectors require so that they last for years. It just takes some tinkering to get it right. Manufacturers *design* incandescents to fail at a certain lifespan, usually around 3,000, but if you under-drive them they last many, many times longer, its all about making money for the bulb company.

Thanks for the technical explanation! Also, I'm intrigued by the "twinkle lights" you've put in your front yard. I'm sure we'd all love to see a video of those in action!

[chesirecat]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

Thanks for the technical explanation! Also, I'm intrigued by the "twinkle lights" you've put in your front yard. I'm sure we'd all love to see a video of those in action!

No problem, I'll put a video on YouTube and link it here as the blinking action is what makes them special. I only got about 30 in a small tree now, I'm going to add fifty more for a different tree, they work best spread out and with a random distance between the lights, like "bugs" that have come to spend the night in a tree. After studying pictures of the twinkle lights in trees in Disneyland, and after seeing them up-close, I think some of them use closer to 80 in a single tree in the small trees actually inside the hub.

One tree outside the hub probably uses something close to 150 lights, at least, based on the amount of low-voltage wiring they are using.

Wasn't expensive as I hand-made the stringers, kinda of surprised that they took them out of hub in the Magic Kingdom in WDW as it is a relatively cheap effect, though very, very labor intensive.

[Werner]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

No problem, I'll put a video on YouTube and link it here as the blinking action is what makes them special. I only got about 30 in a small tree now, I'm going to add fifty more for a different tree, they work best spread out and with a random distance between the lights, like "bugs" that have come to spend the night in a tree. After studying pictures of the twinkle lights in trees in Disneyland, and after seeing them up-close, I think some of them use closer to 80 in a single tree in the small trees actually inside the hub.

One tree outside the hub probably uses something close to 150 lights, at least, based on the amount of low-voltage wiring they are using.

Wasn't expensive as I hand-made the stringers, kinda of surprised that they took them out of hub in the Magic Kingdom in WDW as it is a relatively cheap effect, though very, very labor intensive.

Great, looking forward to seeing your handiwork!

[Liquidspaceman]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

From the Lagoon of Liquidspaceman...
I guess it goes without saying that I love the subs! They hold an important dynamic in TL and FL. Walking around that lagoon has always given me a nice feeling. Sure I like the originals better. A lot of Micechatters wrote scores of letters to please put it back in and DL listened. So, it's not the same as the original, it made a good attempt at tying in a current movie at the time while paying respect to the old. It is just a reminder of what "man" has accomplished throughout the years and what might still be out there, in liquidspace!

...Liquidspaceman, over and out!

[FigmentJedi]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

Documentary on the subs is going to be one of the major new extras on the new Finding Nemo Blu-Ray this winter. Might be life in the attraction yet.

[bigcatrik]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

I'm fairly lukewarm on DL's original Submarine Voyage and the new Nemo version (I do not want the lagoon paved over, however), but if we had the 20k ride I'd probably be obsessed with it! What great subs!

[DisneylandTraveler]

Re: Articles about Closing Subs

Isn't it funny that the external visuals of the submarine ride are probably better than the ride itself? If I go through all my Disneyland pictures, the submarine lagoon from various vistas probably rank in the top 5 of best photo opportunities behind castle, train station, Matterhorn, Jungle Cruise, and probably small world. I take pictures of the subs all the time. I've been on the ride twice because its pretty boring.