[Question] Cracked pavement on BVS

[Princess Victoria]

I absolutely love Buena Vista Street. What with each and every building looking new and flawless, and the cleanliness of it recalling the spotlessness of Disneyland's Main Street, I found it a bit peculiar that the pavement in the street is filled with deliberate cracks. This confuses me somewhat, as I would think that if BVS is meant to look so shiny and new that the pavers would also resemble a clean and neat street. I can appreciate that this was someone's creative decision, but I do wonder why. Does anyone have any guesses or information as to why this approach may have been taken?

[ohmyjustin]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

It might be to give the place a lived-in feeling? There are citizens and businesses that have established lives there, so it's not supposed to be a brand new town. Perhaps they weren't going for practically perfect, but rather realistic.

[Seawolf]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

Streets are never perfect, it would look fake if everything were perfect. Matter a fact, I think this is a weakness of BVS, it still looks too new. Perhaps in time it will be improved with some natural aging.

[MrsMonroe]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

maybe they wanted to give the feeling that the street has been there a while and also california is known for its heat, especially in burbank and LA and cracks are common on the streets here whether youre in beverly hills or the ghetto

[DisneyIPresume]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

Streets are never perfect, it would look fake if everything were perfect. Matter a fact, I think this is a weakness of BVS, it still looks too new. Perhaps in time it will be improved with some natural aging.

I agree. I think the biggest problem with BVS is that it does look so new, which makes the area look more like a modern outdoor LA/OC shopping venue than it does a street from 1920s Los Angeles.

[mratigan]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

Let's give it some time to look old

[brenden]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

*Looks into crystal ball*



Within 6 months time, I predict a followup thread complaining about how the luster of BVS has faded and that Disney is cheap for not keeping the paint fresh. :lol:

[Dustysage]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

This is the problem with many of the areas in DCA and a failed lesson from Walt.

Walt famously wanted Disneyland to always look perfect. Even the Haunted Mansion was to be kept pristine on the outside and only given over to the ghosts on the inside.

Disneyland is an idealized version of the world.

At DCA, the experimented with a much more realistic version of the world, cracked pavement in Condor Flats, Hollywood and now Buena Vista Street, trolly power cables, etc. The problem is that it doesn't really work. The creative license taken by a theme park when creating environments ensures that it will never be real. So a guest quickly walking down the street will nearly always assume that the street is just run down. Which is why Walt's lesson was really the best of all.

Create the places and time periods you want to create, but make them clean and Disney perfect.

I love Buena Vista Street (perhaps even more than Cars Land), but I do NOT like the cracked pavement and trolly cables. I like the comforting perfect worlds that Disney is able to create over the realistic and ugly things I can find outside the berm.

[Coolwowzer]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

i Hate the Cables as well but the Trolly needs them to be authentic... As for the cracks im fine with them as long as they dont get bigger

[Princess Victoria]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

My issue isn't so much that the pavement is cracked and looks worn and old, but that it makes little sense for them to have gone out of their way to make the rest of BVS picture perfect, but then opt to put in a cracked street right in the middle of it. I'm simply trying to understand the logic behind that decision.

Streets are never perfect, it would look fake if everything were perfect. Matter a fact, I think this is a weakness of BVS, it still looks too new. Perhaps in time it will be improved with some natural aging.

I think the sterile look works better for Main Street since the facades are all layered and ornate. With BVS, you have a lot of flat walls that accentuate the cleanly look. Then when you mix in the cracked street, it doesn't make much sense.

This is the problem with many of the areas in DCA and a failed lesson from Walt.

Walt famously wanted Disneyland to always look perfect. Even the Haunted Mansion was to be kept pristine on the outside and only given over to the ghosts on the inside.

Disneyland is an idealized version of the world.

At DCA, the experimented with a much more realistic version of the world, cracked pavement in Condor Flats, Hollywood and now Buena Vista Street, trolly power cables, etc. The problem is that it doesn't really work. The creative license taken by a theme park when creating environments ensures that it will never be real. So a guest quickly walking down the street will nearly always assume that the street is just run down. Which is why Walt's lesson was really the best of all.

Create the places and time periods you want to create, but make them clean and Disney perfect.

I love Buena Vista Street (perhaps even more than Cars Land), but I do NOT like the cracked pavement and trolly cables. I like the comforting perfect worlds that Disney is able to create over the realistic and ugly things I can find outside the berm.

Very well said. I certainly agree. There are several elements of DCA that feature the weathered, tattered look. Buildings in Condor Flats, structures in the Grizzly Run Area, Pacific Wharf, and now Cars Land all have realistic and used looks to them. This is certainly different from what we see over in Disneyland. While it helps for the sake of realism, it takes a different route from our perception of the Disney perfect we get in DL.

[SparkChaser]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

Disneyland is what Walt wanted a place of fantasy, DCA is meant to represent a real place not a completely idealized place which is why it looks a bit worn. Heck when Walt was in California in the 1920's he would have walked on cracked sidewalks and see the trolley wires. That's the true difference between parks.

See ya walkin' right down the middle of o'l Main Street USA

[ohmyjustin]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

This is the problem with many of the areas in DCA and a failed lesson from Walt...

I think it works in some places and fails in others. I love that Main Street is always so perfect. Even the idea of construction in the area bothers me a bit because it's supposed to be perpetually pristine. All feelings of splendor and magnificence I had were lost once I saw scaffolding or tarps around the area. When it was construction-free, it was amazing and I couldn't ask for a better beginning to Disneyland.

DCA, I feel, shouldn't be this way. It's not perfect and the park as a whole represents idealized locations of California, but not perfect by any means. I feel because this place represents a more real location, it should be far from perfection to avoid the Stepford Wives kind of vibe. I love that the citizens of BVS are wacky and definitely have their flaws. The only place in the park that I'd say needs more perfection is Paradise Pier since it's supposed to be, well, paradise.

[Dustysage]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

Disneyland is what Walt wanted a place of fantasy, DCA is meant to represent a real place not a completely idealized place which is why it looks a bit worn. Heck when Walt was in California in the 1920's he would have walked on cracked sidewalks and see the trolley wires. That's the true difference between parks.

See ya walkin' right down the middle of o'l Main Street USA

But, wouldn't you agree that is one of the key reasons why DCA as it was envisioned failed so miserably? Don't folks expect a certain amount of perfection and magic from Disney?

Purposely creating cracked and broken streets doesn't match the Disney mystique (not just Disneyland). Sure, it might work for Universal Studios, and I appreciate the attention to detail . . . but spend 5 minutes standing in Condor Flats and you'll absolutely hear guests lamenting the fact that the runway is cracked and the metal is rusted. Folks just don't "Get" the broken-on-purpose look at Disney.

I'd say that the Imagineers stray a bit too far from Walt for the own good sometimes.

The hip/edgy, cracked and broken DCA of 11 years ago was a total failure on all accounts. No denying that now. I just don't understand why certain lessons never get learned.

Buena Vista Street is fantastic, but it would be even better if it were a vision of perfection, as Main Street USA is.

I say, fix the cracks and take down those ugly overhead wires. As the trash cans say "Help keep Buena Vista Street beautiful."

[dude4real]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

*Looks into crystal ball*

Within 6 months time, I predict a followup thread complaining about how the luster of BVS has faded and that Disney is cheap for not keeping the paint fresh. :lol:

HAHAHA! Priceless!

[lazyboy97O]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

I think there is a fine line between looking lived and looking neglected. Starting really with Pleasure Island and Typhoon Lagoon, an old warehouse district and a storm swept lagoon.

Then at Disneyland Paris the experience became much more worn. Main Street, USA is a bit more worn in than previous versions. Frontierland is nearly falling apart in places. Adventureland in places looks like it could be taken back by the jungles at any time. Even Discoveryland shows the marks of being forged by hand.

It was brought over a bit to Disneyland with the changed made to Adventureland in the 1990s, primarily the addition of the Indiana Jones Adventure and changes to the Jungle Cruise. Disney's Animal Kingdom further pushed this vision with the clearly beaten Harambe Village and Serka Zong. This precedent hit a snag with the addition of Chester and Hester's Dino-Rama, a very thought out tourist trap that does not hit the same feeling of the exotic as other areas of the very same park. Even the venerable Tokyo DisneySEA features the weathering of age in its grand vistas.

Where Disney's California Adventure went wrong is its application of the worn look. There is some romance to an old village or city in a place removed by geography and/or time. Where is the romance in a run down dessert airport as we see in Condor Flats?

Having a place look worn is all about execution and what is going on in the place. Condor Flats being run down seems like an odd fit. To me the excitement of advancement in flight is better than a place past its prime. An old runway seems more fitting for a horror show. We want and expect planes to give the appearance of newness, shine, and good maintenance because we know the destructive power of an aircraft that has failed. A little crack to a city street may be a question of this fine line. Does it add authenticity, building up the illusion that this is a real place or does it remind us of our cities' illnesses?

[Quentin]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

I say, fix the cracks and take down those ugly overhead wires. As the trash cans say "Help keep Buena Vista Street beautiful."

Ok fix the cracks yes, no argument there. However don't get rid of the wires. It would bug me so much if they ran the trolly without the wires. It would look ridiculous without the wires. You might as well drive a bus up and down the street. In the 1920's trolly's were not powered by the charging system the RCT has, so if you remove the wires you remove the 1920's theme.

[NineteenTwenty8]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

Streets are never perfect, it would look fake if everything were perfect. Matter a fact, I think this is a weakness of BVS, it still looks too new. Perhaps in time it will be improved with some natural aging.

I agree, I think the one flaw of BVS is its newness. As it ages it will look so much better.

---------- Post added 07-05-2012 at 07:37 PM ----------

This is the problem with many of the areas in DCA and a failed lesson from Walt.

Walt famously wanted Disneyland to always look perfect. Even the Haunted Mansion was to be kept pristine on the outside and only given over to the ghosts on the inside.

Disneyland is an idealized version of the world.

At DCA, the experimented with a much more realistic version of the world, cracked pavement in Condor Flats, Hollywood and now Buena Vista Street, trolly power cables, etc. The problem is that it doesn't really work. The creative license taken by a theme park when creating environments ensures that it will never be real. So a guest quickly walking down the street will nearly always assume that the street is just run down. Which is why Walt's lesson was really the best of all.

Create the places and time periods you want to create, but make them clean and Disney perfect.

I love Buena Vista Street (perhaps even more than Cars Land), but I do NOT like the cracked pavement and trolly cables. I like the comforting perfect worlds that Disney is able to create over the realistic and ugly things I can find outside the berm.

I disagree bigtime. The overhead wires add a lot of charm and authenticity to the street. Id be really sad if Disney got rid of them. How far does your 'idealized worlds' go? should Indy be a spotless temple with no cracks? after all, Disney should create emaculate worlds right? I think cracks, aging, etc add charm to some of these areas. If everything is too perfect the parks would look plastic.

[Joshnyah]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

This is the problem with many of the areas in DCA and a failed lesson from Walt.

Walt famously wanted Disneyland to always look perfect. Even the Haunted Mansion was to be kept pristine on the outside and only given over to the ghosts on the inside.

Disneyland is an idealized version of the world.

At DCA, the experimented with a much more realistic version of the world, cracked pavement in Condor Flats, Hollywood and now Buena Vista Street, trolly power cables, etc. The problem is that it doesn't really work. The creative license taken by a theme park when creating environments ensures that it will never be real. So a guest quickly walking down the street will nearly always assume that the street is just run down. Which is why Walt's lesson was really the best of all.

Create the places and time periods you want to create, but make them clean and Disney perfect.

I love Buena Vista Street (perhaps even more than Cars Land), but I do NOT like the cracked pavement and trolly cables. I like the comforting perfect worlds that Disney is able to create over the realistic and ugly things I can find outside the berm.

Well Said, Here here.

[BlAcKoUt510]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

*Looks into crystal ball*



Within 6 months time, I predict a followup thread complaining about how the luster of BVS has faded and that Disney is cheap for not keeping the paint fresh. :lol:

lmao! )

[Tomorrowland67]

Re: Cracked pavement on BVS

I imagine that area of L.A. would have looked new when Walt first saw it in the 1920's. It's probably thematically correct to make BVS look new, with fresh paint, billboards, etc.

But I also imagine that the pavement would also have been relatively new when Walt first saw it, and it may not have been cracked already. Perhaps it is thematically incorrect to put cracks in the BVS streets or sidewalks.