[Chat] Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

[Dirton]

It's always been a highly debated topic, but with dwindling real estate at the DLR would you rather see disneyland remain the same (with touch ups here and there) or would you want to see major removals to make way for new ideas/attractions.


I love many of the classic and non-classic attractions, but i think i'd prefer progress instead of nostalgia. Even if that meant losing some of my favorite rides to make way for new things.

how about you?


I'm not talking about specifics or quality just the act of replacing

[RegionsBeyond]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

The tricky part about this is, every single person has an idea of what is irreplaceable at Disneyland, and that might also even include something a person does not ride that much or personally enjoy. Can there be replacements? Certainly. Rides come and go. But as time goes on, I think for most people, more things get added to the "this should never be removed list". I'd be ok with removing the Treehouse in current state, Pooh, Toontown, Alice dark ride, Pinocchio dark ride, Buzz, even Space Mountain, the astro orbiter, Dumbo, etc, if these were replaced with new awesome things and not more cartoon movie rides. I am not even sure Star Tours will last 'forever': awesome ride, based on a beloved movie series. But pop culture media is not immortal, not even Star Tours.

My personal list of what should never go: Tiki Room, Snow White, Peter Pan, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, the Columbia and Mark Twain, Mr. Toad, Small World, Jungle Cruise, the Disneyland Railroad. If more than one of those were demolished or removed, frankly, I'd likely stop going to Disneyland flat out. Everyone has a different line where that theoretical point would be. So, in the end, yes, I advocate responsible and reasonable change: but like most everyone else here, what change is 'reasonable' is highly subjective

[bigcatrik]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

I don't think it's a black or white issue and it's largely a gamble. Take my two biggest lost favorites. Adventure Thru Inner Space made way for Star Tours, while America Sings became an empty building, followed by Innoventions.

What if Indy was demolished for something newer? Don't laugh, anyone, ATIS was on that level for me.

[mickdaddy]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

There are things to me that are untouchable not because I am nostalgic for them but because I love them and they bring me joy!

My list of things that better stay forever are:
In Disneyland:
Pirate
Haunted Mansion
Jungle Cruise
Thunder mountain
Matterhorn
splash mountain
Space mountain
star tours 2 (although they can continue to update)
Tikiroom
Dumbo
peter pan
toads

For DCA:
Soarin
screamin
goofy's sky school (don't know why but I love it)
Tower of terror
GRR
Toystory
Radiator springs racers (yet to ride it but looks incredible)

---------- Post added 07-10-2012 at 03:50 PM ----------

Oh forgot Indy! Maybe an update at some point but love the ride needs to stay!

[bigwavedave]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

This is an Interesting topic. I love the subs but it looks like they are on the chopping block

[Dirton]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

Yeah there a big "never removes" but sometimes i just have to be realistic.

mine:

PotC
HM
DLRR
Tiki Room
Splash Mountain
Casey Jr
Mark Twain
Cannoes
JC
and honestly Buzz

But if any of them were removed i'd be sad but wouldn't stop going

[Mr Wiggins]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

I love many of the classic and non-classic attractions, but i think i'd prefer progress instead of nostalgia. Even if that meant losing some of my favorite rides to make way for new things.

how about you?

It depends on how the Disney Corporation defines "progress." In Disneyland's first three decades, progress meant ever-increasing standards of innovation, ingenuity and creativity. Progress meant replacing Tomorrowland '55 with Tomorrowland '67. Replacing Fantasyland '55 with Fantasyland '83. Progress meant ever-improving attractions, more unique stores, more unique merchandise, more unique table service restaurants, and world class customer service.

In Disneyland's last two decades, "progress" has meant turning Tomorrowland '67 into Tomorrowland '98, turning America Sings into Innoventions, turning the Submarine Voyage thru Liquid Space into the Finding Nemo Underwater Kiddie Video, and turning the Swiss Family Treehouse into a Tarzan Disney Store display. "Progress" has meant turning the Tahitian Terrace into Aladdin's Oasis and then into a ghost restaurant. Turning the PeopleMover into Rocket Rods and then into a ghost attraction. Turning the Motorboat Cruise into a smoking area. Ripping out the Skyway. Replacing table-service restaurants with ODV carts. Replacing unique, land-specific merchandise with generic character crap in every store. Jamming franchise brand cartoon characters into every land, whether they fit the theme or not. Reducing employee training and customer service to shadows of what they were. Letting landmarks like Fort Wilderness and Cascade Peak literally rot.

Given two decades of that kind of marketing-driven, sharp pencil "progress" over nostalgia, I'll take nostalgia.

[JerrodDRagon]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

For Disneyland I'd say all the Mountain rides...Pirates, HM and the orignal attractions in the park...and small world

The rest will come and go...rides like Buzz, Pooh, Nemo....will one day be replaced and I'd really be surprised after how well Carsland did for Disney not to either REDO or destroy toontown..for that amount of land they are very much miss using it

[Dirton]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

Wow do you try and derail every thread you step into

---------- Post added 07-10-2012 at 10:12 PM ----------

It depends on how the Disney Corporation defines "progress." In Disneyland's first three decades, progress meant ever-increasing standards of innovation, ingenuity and creativity. Progress meant Tomorrowland '67 replacing Tomorrowland '55, and Fantasyland '83 replacing Fantasyland '55. Progress meant more and better attractions, more unique stores, more unique merchandise and more unique table service restaurants.

In Disneyland's last two decades, "progress" has meant turning Tomorrowland '67 into Tomorrowland '98, America Sings into Innoventions, Submarine Voyage thru Liquid Space into the Finding Nemo Underwater Kiddie Video, and Swiss Family Treehouse into a Tarzan Disney Store display. "Progress" has meant turning the Tahitian Terrace into Aladdin's Oasis and then into a ghost restaurant. Turning the PeopleMover into Rocket Rods and then into a ghost attraction. Turning the Motorboat Cruise into a smoking area. Ripping out the Skyway. Letting landmarks like Fort Wilderness and Cascade Peak literally rot. Replacing table-service restaurants with ODV carts. Replacing unique, land-specific merchandise with generic character crap in every store. And jamming franchise brand characters into every corner, whether they fit the theme or not.

Given two decades of that kind of marketing-driven, sharp pencil "progress" over nostalgia, I'll take nostalgia.

Wow do you try and derail every thread you post in?

---------- Post added 07-10-2012 at 10:25 PM ----------

we're not discussing your well documented feelings on branding that you bring up in EVERY thread.

For the sake of arguement lets say that whatever they replaced it would be with an original non-branded attraction, that is both quality and content

[Stitch626626]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

^^What are you talking about? Wiggins brings up a valid point. If Disney's "new" doesn't work or isn't any good, why give up the "old"?

[JerrodDRagon]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

^^What are you talking about? Wiggins brings up a valid point. If Disney's "new" doesn't work or isn't any good, why give up the "old"?

Well because everyone has a different opinion...like the Princess Fair....many old school fans want it to stay.....why because they say its part of main street and history....to this i say the area is being so underused

The new Fair might not be for everyone but the lines over a the theater (and tangled meet and greet) show its pretty big for such a SMALL area

So what do we get for getting ride of the old stage area....one the area being used day and night (meet and greets..then dancing)....two a new VERY themed small subarea for Fantasy the first since the redo over 30 years ago....3 we get the Fantasyland theater back and while no nothing is official.....I'd be more then surprised to not see a show there in the next year or two


All in all I see it as a good thing...and I know I'll be waiting to walk through the area at night to see all the detail...I don't most attractions to be based off films..i really don' but when its smart and works (Carsland...Toy Story Mania....Star Tours) then I love it too

[Sambo]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

RULE #1

If it ain't broke - don't fix it.


Acquiring new property to build new attractions is preferred over tearing out existing attractions to install new ones - generally. The 1980's Fantasyland remodel is a great example. The Tomorrowland remodel and additions in 1959 was as well. The 2000 Tomorrowland remodel - not so much...

Not everything Disney does is an improvement over "nostalgia."

[Dirton]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

What i'm talking about is a constant posting about his hatred of brands. WE GET IT. And it's not valid when i didn't mention anything about what would replace it. This thread if you read my post is merely about the resort changing or staying the same. Everyone else seemed to get it. It's a method of continuing a previous point in this thread that has been covered over and over and over again in other threads. Seeing that i posted this thread and don't want to see it get derailed, like it is, i felt i should say something.

[calsig31]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

For me, it is not so much replacing things as replacing them with things that aren't as good as what they are replacing. Mr. Wiggins gave several examples above of modernly where Disney has failed to produce quality replacements. It is such examples that leaves me sceptical about the replacement of any ironic ride.

Oh forgot Indy! Maybe an update at some point but love the ride needs to stay!

Heaven forbid they ever retheme that to Dinosaur.

[Dirton]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

RULE #1

If it ain't broke - don't fix it.


Acquiring new property to build new attractions is preferred over tearing out existing attractions to install new ones - generally. The 1980's Fantasyland remodel is a great example. The Tomorrowland remodel and additions in 1959 was as well. The 2000 Tomorrowland remodel - not so much...

Not everything Disney does is an improvement over "nostalgia."

You're totally right, but i'm not talking about specifics, or quality. Just the act of replacing an old attraction.

[JerrodDRagon]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

For me, it is not so much replacing things as replacing them with things that aren't as good as what they are replacing. Mr. Wiggins gave several examples above of modernly where Disney has failed to produce quality replacements. It is such examples that leaves me sceptical about the replacement of any ironic ride.

Heaven forbid they ever retheme that to Dinosaur.

Yes we have mistakes like Nemo....and Pooh but also good things like the Castle redo...Star Tour 2.0....Lincoln...HM Holiday....Ghost Galaxy....the DCA redo including the Pier and Beuna Vistas Street

I'd say Disney has made some mistakes but most of that is from before 2007...since then there is no ride I have "disliked" maybe been some what Dispointed in like Mermaid or Racers (not the dark ride part just the race at the end) and WOC

But overall for the past few years the parks have just gotten better and better with nothing really bad being added to the park

[WorldDisney]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

Honestly, I would have no problem if they removed anything in the place IF its replaced with something equal to or better than whats there now! I'm not a nostalgia kind of person. Sure, there are things I remember in my childhood and I'm glad they are still there today, but I wouldnt care if they got rid it. That includes everything: POTC, HM, SM, IASW (please), Tiki Room, Indy, on and on and on!

Would I miss them? Of course! Do I want them gone, no not really! But people have to make up their minds, do they want Disneyland to change or evolve we keep hearing people talking about or do they just want to keep it basically as its been for the last 50 years and just add whatever they can around the fringes which is what they been doing?

DL is small and it has the most attractions more than ANY Disney theme park in the world. Its also the oldest so in time there will just be no more room left to do anything big. They certainly can never add something like Carsland thats for sure. But in time some of the bigger stuff my have to go one day to make room for other stuff. Thats just a reality.

But then there are 300 posts because Disney wants to remove a stage in a dead area (and not even remove it, just change the theme) or they want to rennovate a bank on MS that left in the 90s and thats another 200 posts. So if they cant change out the little things, I dont see ANYTHING going that opened pre-1990 at this point.

[Sambo]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

You're totally right, but i'm not talking about specifics, or quality. Just the act of replacing an old attraction.

Just replacing is sterile for a discussion and totally uninteresting without a discussion on quality and specifics - with examples. Without that - not anything to discuss. Just "Replacement - good or bad?" by itself is meaningless.

[Dirton]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

how is it meaningless? Should things be replaced? It's a valid question and people seem to complain regardless of what the attraction replacing it is.

take for example removing RoA to bring in WRE. People would flip even though what is taking its place is a legendary original ride created by the legendary marc davis.

So the question without referring to quality or specifics is: are you in favor of replacing older attractions.

[DisneyIPresume]

Re: Disneyland (out with old and in with the new)

People so far seem to have settled on a specific list of attractions that they do not want replaced.

None of those mentioned were the castle.

Disneyland really is dead.