[Chat] Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

[Uncle Bob]

The success of Cars Land has cemented into place Disney's brand marketing strategy and there is no going back. I know this is painful and disappointing to many of us, but I think that it's time for us to accept this new reality. There will probably never be an original attraction ever built in the U.S. again, with the possible exception of big thrill rides. This is what Disney does now as a company, they market their most popular brands across all of their empire and from a business perspective it's working. They have no reason to change until it stops working and there's no sign that it will not continue to work. Even on this board, most fans want to see their favorite movie made into a ride. The success of Harry Potter was the last major step, but now with Cars Land's success, I just don't see Disney ever taking the risk on an original idea ever again.

For those who, like me, are fans of theme park design and believe it is its own unique art form, well, we're all going to have to wait for the next Walt to come around or go visit the parks abroad. But I think it's time to end all this complaining about Disney not doing original rides. That era is over, that's not what Disney does anymore, it's time to stop complaining and except it or move on.

[tuxhero]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

To be honest this argument is really flawed, just by the fact that Fantasyland exist. Walt Disney himself used his own popular characters to promote other properties. So the constant discussion that Carsland creation somehow is something new in the Disney universe is terribly bad history.

[manifest]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

I certainly hope not. Even though Cars Land is amazing, majority of the other attractions built around Disney franchises have been absolutely awful. It's really hard to say that a ride wouldn't be popular without it being built around a brand, but when was the last time they even tried??

and I said 'tried', so I'm not accepting the original DCA for an answer. That just wasn't trying.

[SLUSHIE]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

The thing about the Fantasy Land rides is I don't think they were ever meant to be around this long. They are all relatively cheaply built and I think they were meant to be able to be easily replaced with new franchises down the line, but never were.

Rides like Pinocchio and Snow White could have easily have been transformed into Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast or the many other films that came before them.

[Uncle Bob]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

To be honest this argument is really flawed, just by the fact that Fantasyland exist. Walt Disney himself used his own popular characters to promote other properties. So the constant discussion that Carsland creation somehow is something new in the Disney universe is terribly bad history.

I never said anything about Walt not building attractions based on his own films. I never said that Cars Land was anything all that new. This has been thirty year process that is now complete and the era of original attractions is done.

[Quarar44]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

While it would be cool to see more original rides, I think that quality rides that, although include characters, have an original story are almost as good. I believe that rides are meant to tell a story. Great rides like Indiana Jones, Roger Rabbit, Star Tours, and even Radiator Springs Racers all tell a unique story separate from their respective movies, just using existing characters. I think for a ride to incorporate characters the ride should be able to sustain itself without them. You could easily pretend that Indiana Jones is just a random archeologist, or that Radiator Springs Racers is just a normal race through the desert. In all honesty, I'm completely fine with Disney classic movies being made into rides (like TLM), but when Pixar movies are made into rides (FNSV and Monsters Inc) I don't like them. Just my thoughts!

[DLFreak15]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

Here's hoping that this isn't true. While Cars Land is indeed an overwhelming success (a well deserved one) I would absolutely hate to not have any completely new and original attractions come to Disney here in the U.S.

Yes, it's been years since we've had a completely original attraction but hopefully with the rumored expansion of Tomorrowland we'll get something original and exciting (and hopefully not Marvel!)

[monster heck]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

The only way the PeopleMover will ever be back is if Pixar makes a PeopleMover movie...

[Mr Wiggins]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

...I think it's time to end all this complaining about Disney not doing original rides. That era is over, that's not what Disney does anymore, it's time to stop complaining and except it or move on.

Meaning no disrespect to your post, I must disagree. The administration and staff of this forum repeatedly have gone on record as welcoming and encouraging discussions of all opinions of things Disney -- including those opinions that are critical of Disney's creative, administrative, managerial and other policies.

Speaking only as a forum member, I guarantee you that opinions on all sides of the issue of Disney not doing original rides will continue to be posted and will continue to be discussed, regardless of calls to "stop complaining," "move on," or otherwise limit, define or censor the topics of discussion on this forum.

To wit:

To be honest this argument is really flawed, just by the fact that Fantasyland exist. Walt Disney himself used his own popular characters to promote other properties. So the constant discussion that Carsland creation somehow is something new in the Disney universe is terribly bad history.

To be honest, that's a complete misrepresentation of the argument. It has never been argued that brand-based rides are bad in and of themselves. The argument is that the balance between brand-based and original rides has been lost.

The fact that Walt Disney used his own popular characters in Disneyland rides has never been an issue. The historical fact is that brand-based rides in the pre-Eisner era were in the vast minority compared to original rides. Again, the issue is balance.

[ColonelWalrus]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

Big Grizzly Mountain Run Away Mine Cars.

[Witches of Morva]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

ORWEN: Well, I wouldn't care if EVERY attraction at the Disney theme parks was based on a Disney movie--as long as the quality was good. After all, the only reason I go to Disney theme parks is to be immersed in their movies. If it weren't for Disney movies there wouldn't have ever been a Disneyland. So anybody who complains about too many attractions at a Disney theme park being based on movies is like going to a wedding and then complaining about the fact there's a bride and groom present. It just makes no sense to me.

[JerrodDRagon]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

I hope we get some Original rides still many just have a "classic" feeling to them..like we made this ride because it would be a good attraction like HM or Pirates.

While Racers is...we hope you enjoy it...now buy a T shirt


I want both kinda rides in the park...but its been since 11 years with out an "original" idea be nice to get one at least every ten

[tuxhero]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

Thank you ColonelWalrus, the new attraction at Hong Kong Disneyland is not based on any established current franchise "movie" series, so there goes that point right there, and exactly Witches of Morva, the entire argument is based solely on the fact that the few pixar rides that have opened were done mostly during periods of cheap over the counter ride creation.


That or the rides were built to take over a previous ride, like the submarine ride. The witches prove that it's not about the premise but the execution. You can build a park all about Marvel comic characters but if you build a park that looks like any other over the counter park around the world, then yes its going to fail. Carsland is proving to Disney that Walt did it right the first time, draw us into the world you are creating and people will come by the millions. Cut corners and be cheap about it, and watch those people go to the next best thing.

[manifest]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

ORWEN: Well, I wouldn't care if EVERY attraction at the Disney theme parks was based on a Disney movie--as long as the quality was good. After all, the only reason I go to Disney theme parks is to be immersed in their movies. If it weren't for Disney movies there wouldn't have ever been a Disneyland. So anybody who complains about too many attractions at a Disney theme park being based on movies is like going to a wedding and then complaining about the fact there's a bride and groom present. It just makes no sense to me.

Really?? That is the last reason that I ever go to the Parks. In fact, anytime a Swiss Family Treehouse gets changed into a Tarzan Treehouse, or when a voyage through liquid space dives into just finding Nemo, or seeing a piece of Main Street USA get carved up to build another spot to meet princesses, it feels less and less like Disneyland to me.

[Uncle Bob]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

Meaning no disrespect to your post, I must disagree. The administration and staff of this forum repeatedly have gone on record as welcoming and encouraging discussions of all opinions of things Disney -- including those opinions that are critical of Disney's creative, administrative, managerial and other policies.

Speaking only as a forum member, I guarantee you that opinions on all sides of the issue of Disney not doing original rides will continue to be posted and will continue to be discussed, regardless of calls to "stop complaining," "move on," or otherwise limit, define or censor the topics of discussion on this forum.

To wit:



To be honest, that's a complete misrepresentation of the argument. It has never been argued that brand-based rides are bad in and of themselves. The argument is that the balance between brand-based and original rides has been lost.

The fact that Walt Disney used his own popular characters in Disneyland rides has never been an issue. The historical fact is that brand-based rides in the pre-Eisner era were in the vast minority compared to original rides. Again, the issue is balance.

You're right, I can't control what other people post, but I'm making the point that it's become a discussion of nothing more then dislike of a Disney policy that isn't going to change.

[Princess Victoria]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

While I can clearly see the reasoning behind your thoughtful post, I do disagree that we will not see an original attraction anytime soon. Cars Land has been wildly successful. But would it have been just as successful without the Cars theme? What if they had just built a land just as immersive and impressive as Cars Land, but without the Cars? While we'll never know, I personally think it would have. When I go into Cars Land, the last thing on my mind are the actual Cars characters. The first thing on it is how thematically appropriate, intricate, and impressive the whole place is. The Cars play a sort of supporting role to the whole thing. Regardless of exact theme, Cars Land is a true work of Imagineering art. And even though the movies are sub-par for Pixar (don't get me wrong- I love the Cars movies, but I'm a car girl), they took an element from the film and made it real by pursuing something that has evaded DCA for a long time- quality. While it's true that film-based attractions can and do garner more interest from the general public (and Disney knows how to market anything with popular characters in it), I think what remains to be seen is how far WDI will be going with this concept of entire lands devoted to films. We know Avatarland may be on the horizon, and we also have A Bug's Land in DCA, with small Toy Story-themed lands in a couple places. But that'll only take them so far. The fact that these attractions are related to films or characters is only a small part of the equation. The eventual outcome is most dependent upon whether or not the final product delivered is a quality one. Beyond that, only Disney can determine what will be tied to a franchise or be original. Big Grizzly Mountain in Hong Kong reminds me that they can still create something special and original, and I think they will do the same in Anaheim sooner than may be anticipated.

[Uncle Bob]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

Thank you ColonelWalrus, the new attraction at Hong Kong Disneyland is not based on any established current franchise "movie" series, so there goes that point right there, and exactly Witches of Morva, the entire argument is based solely on the fact that the few pixar rides that have opened were done mostly during periods of cheap over the counter ride creation.


That or the rides were built to take over a previous ride, like the submarine ride. The witches prove that it's not about the premise but the execution. You can build a park all about Marvel comic characters but if you build a park that looks like any other over the counter park around the world, then yes its going to fail. Carsland is proving to Disney that Walt did it right the first time, draw us into the world you are creating and people will come by the millions. Cut corners and be cheap about it, and watch those people go to the next best thing.

I find your insistence that by finding one completely invalid argument you think that it invalidates my argument and it clearly does not. I said in the United States, other locations are still getting Magic Kingdom parks so HKDL for its version Big Thunder Mountain. There is so little difference that suggesting that is even original is debatable in and of itself.

---------- Post added 07-13-2012 at 07:40 PM ----------

While I can clearly see the reasoning behind your thoughtful post, I do disagree that we will not see an original attraction anytime soon. Cars Land has been wildly successful. But would it have been just as successful without the Cars theme? What if they had just built a land just as immersive and impressive as Cars Land, but without the Cars? While we'll never know, I personally think it would have. When I go into Cars Land, the last thing on my mind are the actual Cars characters. The first thing on it is how thematically appropriate, intricate, and impressive the whole place is. The Cars play a sort of supporting role to the whole thing. Regardless of exact theme, Cars Land is a true work of Imagineering art. And even though the movies are sub-par for Pixar (don't get me wrong- I love the Cars movies, but I'm a car girl), they took an element from the film and made it real by pursuing something that has evaded DCA for a long time- quality. While it's true that film-based attractions can and do garner more interest from the general public (and Disney knows how to market anything with popular characters in it), I think what remains to be seen is how far WDI will be going with this concept of entire lands devoted to films. We know Avatarland may be on the horizon, and we also have A Bug's Land in DCA, with small Toy Story-themed lands in a couple places. But that'll only take them so far. The fact that these attractions are related to films or characters is only a small part of the equation. The eventual outcome is most dependent upon whether or not the final product delivered is a quality one. Beyond that, only Disney can determine what will be tied to a franchise or be original. Big Grizzly Mountain in Hong Kong reminds me that they can still create something special and original, and I think they will do the same in Anaheim sooner than may be anticipated.

Of course I think that Cars Land could have been just as good if it was original, but you won't convince Disney that a big part of the success isn't the billion dollar toy sales machine behind it. All of the arguments about what can be good in the hypothetical, quality and everything else are beside the point. The point is that all Disney does as an organization in the U.S. is cross promote films. That is now their entire strategy, and as you can see, there are plenty of people that are perfectly happy to see it go in that direction. They think it's crazy to even want original attractions, that's where we are now.

[Mr Wiggins]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

Really?? That is the last reason that I ever go to the Parks. In fact, anytime a Swiss Family Treehouse gets changed into a Tarzan Treehouse, or when a voyage through liquid space dives into just finding Nemo, or seeing a piece of Main Street USA get carved up to build another spot to meet princesses, it feels less and less like Disneyland to me.

ka-Bingo.

You're right, I can't control what other people post, but I'm making the point that it's become a discussion of nothing more then dislike of a Disney policy that isn't going to change.

I understand your point, but I would argue that for the great majority of discussions on MiceChat, indeed on all Disney fan forums, "changing Disney policy" is hardly the point or purpose; it's about Disney fans with different opinions coming together to discuss and debate issues pertaining to Disney.

No matter if the topic is ticket prices or food prices, AP parking or drink refills, CM control of rude guests or CM hiring standards, no discussion and debate on this site is invalidated because it "isn't going to change Disney policy." The issue of original vs. branded rides is no different.

[Uncle Bob]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

ka-Bingo.




I understand your point, but I would argue that for the great majority of discussions on MiceChat, indeed on all Disney fan forums, "changing Disney policy" is hardly the point or purpose; it's about Disney fans with different opinions coming together to discuss and debate issues pertaining to Disney.

No matter if the topic is ticket prices or food prices, AP parking or drink refills, CM control of rude guests or CM hiring standards, no discussion and debate on this site is invalidated because it "isn't going to change Disney policy." The issue of original vs. branded rides is no different.

That's a good point, I guess there really wouldn't be nearly as much to talk about if all we discussed were things that were likely to actually happen.

[Sheriff Lightyear]

Re: Cars Land was the last nail in the "Original Attraction" coffin...

Really?? That is the last reason that I ever go to the Parks. In fact, anytime a Swiss Family Treehouse gets changed into a Tarzan Treehouse, or when a voyage through liquid space dives into just finding Nemo, or seeing a piece of Main Street USA get carved up to build another spot to meet princesses, it feels less and less like Disneyland to me.

None of those attractions are of actual quality..