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  • #21
    Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

    When I waited 3.5 hours for RSR I saw tons of guests with GACs enter the Fastpass line and at least 2 of the groups audibly joked about their "claustrophobia". Just saying.

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    • #22
      Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

      Maybe they thought it was funny. I poke fun of my medical issues all the time...it's become a running joke to go to restaurants with friends and ask "is there anything on the menu that can kill (Malina)?" and variations of that because I am deathly allergic to shellfish.

      For DCA, well, all new structures have to be built with ADA compliance, both in and outside of the resort. Compliant and accessible attractions make everyone's life easier. THe attractions where GAC comes most into play are those which were built in the early days of the park, when disabled access wasn't on the radar.

      The bottom line is that there's always a small group of people that will abuse a concession. The same way that there's always a small group that cheats the single rider line, a small group that tries to use FastPasses after the return window, a small group that knowingly trades fake pins, and so forth. The same way, outside the resort, there's always a small group that cheats on their taxes, goes over the limit at the express line at the supermarket, et al.

      You don't punish or judge the majority for the actions of a few.

      You don't judge those who carry GACs because you personally can't discern what their disability or special need may be; or because you don't understand what a GAC actually does. You're disgruntled because you see someone going through the disabled line? As others have said, maybe it would be better to be grateful you don't have to go there yourself.
      Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

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      • #23
        Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

        Originally posted by Malina View Post
        ITA. There are so many illnesses and disabilities that don't show on the outside, so you never can judge.
        EXACTLY. invisible illnesses suck.

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        • #24
          Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

          Originally posted by Malina View Post
          ...The bottom line is that there's always a small group of people that will abuse a concession. The same way that there's always a small group that cheats the single rider line, a small group that tries to use FastPasses after the return window, a small group that knowingly trades fake pins, and so forth. The same way, outside the resort, there's always a small group that cheats on their taxes, goes over the limit at the express line at the supermarket, et al.

          You don't punish or judge the majority for the actions of a few.

          You don't judge those who carry GACs because you personally can't discern what their disability or special need may be; or because you don't understand what a GAC actually does. You're disgruntled because you see someone going through the disabled line? As others have said, maybe it would be better to be grateful you don't have to go there yourself.
          Bingo.
          "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
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          • #25
            Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

            Originally posted by Disneytwins View Post
            I'm not saying people with disabilities are abusing the system, I'm saying the people without the disabilities are abusing this system.
            I agree 100% (and apologies if my original reply was accusatory, wasn't intended that way). The problem is - as many others have pointed out - how can you tell with invisible disabilities?

            While I have a very visible disability (legally blind) I was recently accused of faking my other health problems for attention. Kinda a hot button issue for me right now, especially as I'm not sure I'll be well enough for our trip in less than a month.

            DCA is definitely on the right track with accessible lines, but as DL has accessible alternate queues I doubt we'll ever see the older rides updated.
            sigpic Not so patiently waiting for Disneyland Australia.

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            • #26
              Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

              Originally posted by SeptemberJoy View Post
              I agree 100% (and apologies if my original reply was accusatory, wasn't intended that way). The problem is - as many others have pointed out - how can you tell with invisible disabilities?

              While I have a very visible disability (legally blind) I was recently accused of faking my other health problems for attention. Kinda a hot button issue for me right now, especially as I'm not sure I'll be well enough for our trip in less than a month.

              DCA is definitely on the right track with accessible lines, but as DL has accessible alternate queues I doubt we'll ever see the older rides updated.
              You know in all my time here I know it's never going to be black and white. There's WAY too many shades of gray. Every GAC I have seen I glace at and just let them on. especially in the Wheelchair lines at Space. Believe me, aside from the SLOWEST days where it's no wait, (and even then why should I care?) they all waited patiently and I am not one to judge. It's not place to do so nor should it be anyone's. Having said that, i'm not ignorant to everyone as I HAVE caught fakes and it really makes me mad to see them because of how they abuse a system that's not meant to bypass waiting.

              there's a lot of tricky issues. For example Say we have a party of 7 that have a card that shows 5 but they insist they go through fastpass. They never explain why and just tell you that that's what they always do and demand it when they have a card that suggests they go through the exit (where HA line is) only to grumble as you're trying to explain why they go to the exit and end up going through the STAND BY line. Party is a mix of 16 - 25 year olds. What would you say to that? It's not as easy as you think...

              ...As I see it

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              • #27
                Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                Originally posted by logicspeaks View Post
                When I waited 3.5 hours for RSR I saw tons of guests with GACs enter the Fastpass line and at least 2 of the groups audibly joked about their "claustrophobia". Just saying.
                You do realize they have to go to the GAC center first(inside the garage before you get to the standby line) where their GAC is marked with a time equal to the standby time, and they come back then?
                If you see a cute yellow lab puppy with a yellow cape, WAVE! It might be us! (Or it may be someone else that lurks here!) Thank you for asking before you pet! Next trip, Dec 22-Jan 3rd.

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                • #28
                  Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                  The last time we were at Disneyland, my hubby - who has a permanent spine injury and uses a mobility scooter - was having a good day and we wanted to ride Big Thunder. They have a new system with a cast member at the exit directing the handicap entries. He has an umbrella under which to stand. The entire handicapp queue, no matter how long or short, does not have any shade. It was really warm that day and I sent my hubby to park his scooter in the shade and I waited in the line so his 'good day' would continue. Well, that line really doesn't move very fast. We were probably there half and hour and moved three spaces forward in line. I finally gave out and we left to ride something else.

                  This wasn't put in as a complaint, but to show we don't always get special treatment.

                  In Toy Story Mania, we do go through the regular line. Then, right when we would enter the ride vehicle, we are sent to a different area in the back to wait for the special car. By the time you are done with the ride, we are probably still waiting. Again, not a complaint. I am thankful they have the special cars!

                  Star Tours does have us come back at the FastPass time posted outside. But, we don't load right away either. We sit outside the exit of the Starspeeder and wait at least two more cycles for the cast members to get it organized with the loaders on the other side. We were forgotten a couple of times and waited at least another half hour. Again, just the facts, not complaining.

                  In Fantasyland, a lot of the handicapp entrances are in the sun, no shade. But, then, some of the regular queues are also.

                  Solution? I don't have one to please everyone. We know when we go to the Park we will have to slow down from how we used to do it when we were younger and more healthy. But, you know what? We are so happy we are able to go at all that we are patient and enjoy the day.
                  sigpic
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                  • #29
                    Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                    Originally posted by HiddenMickeyBook View Post
                    The last time we were at Disneyland, my hubby - who has a permanent spine injury and uses a mobility scooter - was having a good day and we wanted to ride Big Thunder. They have a new system with a cast member at the exit directing the handicap entries. He has an umbrella under which to stand. The entire handicapp queue, no matter how long or short, does not have any shade. It was really warm that day and I sent my hubby to park his scooter in the shade and I waited in the line so his 'good day' would continue. Well, that line really doesn't move very fast. We were probably there half and hour and moved three spaces forward in line. I finally gave out and we left to ride something else.

                    This wasn't put in as a complaint, but to show we don't always get special treatment.

                    In Toy Story Mania, we do go through the regular line. Then, right when we would enter the ride vehicle, we are sent to a different area in the back to wait for the special car. By the time you are done with the ride, we are probably still waiting. Again, not a complaint. I am thankful they have the special cars!

                    Star Tours does have us come back at the FastPass time posted outside. But, we don't load right away either. We sit outside the exit of the Starspeeder and wait at least two more cycles for the cast members to get it organized with the loaders on the other side. We were forgotten a couple of times and waited at least another half hour. Again, just the facts, not complaining.

                    In Fantasyland, a lot of the handicapp entrances are in the sun, no shade. But, then, some of the regular queues are also.

                    Solution? I don't have one to please everyone. We know when we go to the Park we will have to slow down from how we used to do it when we were younger and more healthy. But, you know what? We are so happy we are able to go at all that we are patient and enjoy the day.
                    This is a great post and helps to shed some light on what exactly happens.

                    I've been reading through all of these posts and thank people for their insights from various angles. I should also note 2 people reported me as trolling, which amazes me because I was just voice a strong opinion of mine.

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                    • #30
                      Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                      I'm very sensitive towards handicapped or sick people in general. As an epileptic who has been through a bunch of medical crap to just live my life happily (I couldn't swim for an entire year and eventually became afraid of water because of it. When the strobe lights came on at senior prom I had to close my eyes to dance), I find it fair for those in wheelchairs with actual disabilities to be able to not have to wait in an extremely long line. For those of us who don't need to ride in assistance vehicles we just need to suck it up and wait. There's no point in causing an argument against the handicapped being able to get on a ride differently. What makes me upset is when my idiot friends think it's cool to pretend they have a disability and use a wheelchair to get on rides faster. They were sure in for a rude awakening when they had to wait in the bathroom area near Space Mountain's exit for three hours. :P
                      "Y'all come back now, ya hear?"

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                      • #31
                        Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                        I'm kind of ashamed that some people on here would want someone with limited capability to wait longer or just as long as standby when that person might potentially only have a limited amount of time before they are just worn out. You never do know a persons situation. I have gone with a cancer patient who didn't have the most energy and it was nice that we could go to the front for that purpose; so we could experience the most with that person before they reached their limit.
                        Now, I've also been to the parks with my friend in a wheelchair who is completely fine, just doesn't have use of his legs. We had no problem waiting in the regular line for almost everything, my only gripe was going through exits like Thunder Mountain which was not pleasant or encountering rude CM's that act like people in a wheelchair are just doing it for fun.


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                        • #32
                          Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                          The best solution would be of course, to make the lines for these rides better and move more efficiently. A pipe dream yes. But it would provide less motivation to abuse the system. Such would be removing FP from rides that worsen the standby lines.

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                          • #33
                            Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                            Howdy Pards,

                            My gosh, we sure do live in strange times...don't we?

                            Yessir, it seems that ancient ideas like caring, understanding, helpfulness, patience, and love are now hopelessly out-of-date, replaced by a far more modern and up-to-date "ME first, get out of my way!"

                            "Who, exactly, do these "wheelchair people" think they are? Is it my fault they can't walk for some reason? Why should THEY get on quicker than I do? ME first!" After a while we start soundin' more than a little like those Seagulls in Finding Nemo don't we? You know..."Mine! Mine! Mine!".

                            A long, long time ago somebody came up with an idea that, when you think about it, really makes a lot of sense. They called it "The Golden Rule".

                            My Mom and Dad taught me that a long time ago...back when I was still a small boy...you know...back when dinosaurs still roamed the earth...

                            Now, for you folks who ain't never heard of it, the Golden Rule is really kinda simple..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

                            I know that's an old, old concept...but there's a reason it has lasted so long...

                            You get a herd of human beings together and there's just no tellin' what's gonna happen...especially if every one of those critters is thinkin' "ME first."

                            Don't make a whole lotta sense being so selfish that you can't wait a minute or two for someone "less fortunate than you are" to go on a ride before you do. I'm kinda sure they would generally trade places with ya in a twinkling if they could. Bein' trapped in a wheelchair ain't all it's cracked up to be ya know...

                            I think we gotta dust off some old ideas...take a clue or two from the Boy Scouts...you know, "To help other people at all times"..."helpful, friendly, courteous, kind..." stuff like that.

                            I reckon we will all be a lot happier if we stop thinkin' selfish thoughts...and start thinkin' kind, courteous, friendly, and helpful thoughts...

                            It takes a whole lot less work...far fewer muscles...to smile than it does to frown anyways...and, kindness just sorta seems like a better idea to me...caring about others, bein' helpful, and friendly and such...all those things lead to happiness. We could all do with a little more happiness in this ol' world of ours don't ya think?

                            Shucks, come to think of it, that's what Disneyland is all about...

                            Adios for now. Talk to ya on down the trail.

                            Wild Ol' Dan
                            Last edited by Wild Ol' Dan; 07-14-2012, 02:35 PM.


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                            • #34
                              Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                              Originally posted by Malcon10t View Post
                              I use a scooter, my daughter has a service dog. We don't want to get on faster, we just want to get on. I have no complaints when we wait in the HA line at IASW for 25 mins while someone walking up boards in 9 (timed it...) Just need to be able to avoid the stairs. Or how about POTC. Since they can only board 6 disabled groups per cycle, it is often considerably longer to wait there. We've seen it walk on, and we've had to wait 20 mins. To those who think using the HA line is a FOTL pass, come live in our shoes a while. I *LOVE* DCA. It is all accessible, and no one is giving you dirty looks for waiting in the same line.

                              There are some that try to abuse it, but karma, and learning there really is a wait, teaches them it isn't worth it.
                              Well, said and I totally agree with your post. My mother has lupus and a lot of other medical issues. She is very sick and sometimes you can see it and other times you can not tell but she is very sick. She doesn't mind waiting in line but sometimes she just can not wait to long bc of her illness. She is not the type of person to try to take advantage of anyone so it bugs me when ppl judge without even trying to understand what someone else is going through. I am not saying that just bc someone has a disability they deserve special treatment but it does not hurt to have compassion for others and try to be understanding bc a person never knows when or if they might find themselves in the same or similiar situation. Believe me disabled ppl do wait in lines they don't just get on a ride within 5 min. As for the ppl who do abuse the pass I believe in Karma and it is sad that they have to ruin it for the ppl who really do need it. I wish ppl could learn how to have more compassion and patients for others. Just my opinion.

                              ---------- Post added 07-14-2012 at 02:47 PM ----------

                              Originally posted by Wild Ol' Dan View Post
                              Howdy Pards,

                              My gosh, we sure do live in strange times...don't we?

                              Yessir, it seems that ancient ideas like caring, understanding, helpfulness, patience, and love are now hopelessly out-of-date, replaced by a far more modern and up-to-date "ME first, get out of my way!"

                              "Who, exactly, do these "wheelchair people" think they are? Is it my fault they can't walk for some reason? Why should THEY get on quicker than I do? ME first!" After a while we start soundin' more than a little like those Seagulls in Finding Nemo don't we? You know..."Mine! Mine! Mine!".

                              A long, long time ago somebody came up with an idea that, when you think about it, really makes a lot of sense. They called it "The Golden Rule".

                              My Mom and Dad taught me that a long time ago...back when I was still a small boy...you know...back when dinosaurs still roamed the earth...

                              Now, for you folks who ain't never heard of it, the Golden Rule is really kinda simple..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

                              I know that's an old, old concept...but there's a reason it has lasted so long...

                              You get a herd of human beings together and there's just no tellin' what's gonna happen...especially if every one of those critters is thinkin' "ME first."

                              Don't make a whole lotta sense being so selfish that you can't wait a minute or two for someone "less fortunate than you are" to go on a ride before you do. I'm kinda sure they would generally trade places with ya in a twinkling if they could. Bein' trapped in a wheelchair ain't all it's cracked up to be ya know..."

                              I think we gotta dust off some old ideas...take a clue or two from the Boy Scouts...you know, "To help other people at all times"..."helpful, friendly, courteous, kind..." stuff like that.

                              I reckon we will all be a lot happier if we stop thinkin' selfish thoughts...and start thinkin' kind, courteous, friendly, and helpful thoughts...

                              It takes a whole lot less work...far fewer muscles...to smile than it does to frown anyways...and, kindness just sorta seems like a better idea to me...caring about others, bein' helpful, and friendly and such...all those things lead to happiness. We could all do with a little more happiness in this ol' world of ours don't ya think?

                              Shucks, come to think of it, that's what Disneyland is all about...

                              Adios for now. Talk to ya on down the trail.

                              Wild Ol' Dan
                              Absolutely Love Love Love your post Wild Ol' Dan! Wish we had more ppl who think like you in this world. Thank you, for posting this.

                              ---------- Post added 07-14-2012 at 03:00 PM ----------

                              Originally posted by Malina View Post
                              Maybe they thought it was funny. I poke fun of my medical issues all the time...it's become a running joke to go to restaurants with friends and ask "is there anything on the menu that can kill (Malina)?" and variations of that because I am deathly allergic to shellfish.

                              For DCA, well, all new structures have to be built with ADA compliance, both in and outside of the resort. Compliant and accessible attractions make everyone's life easier. THe attractions where GAC comes most into play are those which were built in the early days of the park, when disabled access wasn't on the radar.

                              The bottom line is that there's always a small group of people that will abuse a concession. The same way that there's always a small group that cheats the single rider line, a small group that tries to use FastPasses after the return window, a small group that knowingly trades fake pins, and so forth. The same way, outside the resort, there's always a small group that cheats on their taxes, goes over the limit at the express line at the supermarket, et al.

                              You don't punish or judge the majority for the actions of a few.

                              You don't judge those who carry GACs because you personally can't discern what their disability or special need may be; or because you don't understand what a GAC actually does. You're disgruntled because you see someone going through the disabled line? As others have said, maybe it would be better to be grateful you don't have to go there yourself.
                              Thank you, very well said!

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                                Originally posted by Malina View Post
                                ITA. There are so many illnesses and disabilities that don't show on the outside, so you never can judge. That 21 year old being pushed in a wheelchair by her friends might be a cystic fibrosis patient. That person who is "walking fine" might have an artificial leg under his jeans. That woman who seems energetic might be having one of her few "good days" between her rounds of chemo. You just never know.
                                There are a lot of "disabilities" that have no relation to waiting in line. I don't know what the ratio is of various disabilities, ranging from hearing impaired and blind to totally paralyzed, but it's evident that not all have to have front of line access.

                                I've gone to Home Depot where they have about 50 handicapped parking spaces ALL in the area closest to the front entrance. I doubt that there have been more than a half dozen occupied at the same time.

                                Many handicapped spaces are intended to provide wider space in order for wheelchair access. But even there, there is no real reason that they should be close to the entrance. Most wheelchair bound people consider themselves "abled". So they should provide the handicapped spaces, but just randomly sprinkled throughout the parking lots. I'd guess that less then 5% of all handicapped people have disabilities that require close proximity to an entrance or front of line passes.

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                                • #36
                                  Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                                  Has anyone here agreeing with the OP ever experienced their own handicap, even if it were only for a limited time, or actually know a close family member/friend who is handicapped?

                                  Although not ALL disabilities may require the use of the alternate line, it's pretty unreasonable, invasive, and I'm guessing possibly illegal for Disney to require proof of any specific illness/disability for the pass.

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                                  • #37
                                    Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                                    I recently had reconstructive foot/ankle surgery. I've posted it before in one of the other recent threads so I'll spare you ...

                                    Bottom line: I can't stand for a long period of time, and stairs are difficult.

                                    I recently went to Six Flags, and I didn't know the policies, so I showed up with medical documents. I was told they didn't need proof when I tried to show it to them.

                                    I REALLY like the way they handled it. They gave me a piece of paper with the date on it, and explained how it works.

                                    I had to go up to the person manning the entrance of a ride, and have them sign the paper and write down a time to come back, corresponding with the same wait time as everyone else getting in the line at that specific time. Then, when I came back we got on the ride right away, and the person crossed out the time/signature for that ride. The part that impressed me the most was that I could only have one signature at a time-- so I could only be "waiting" in one line at a time ... just like everyone else! So essentially, it was like a fast pass, but I could only have one at a time.

                                    It was a hot day, so I was wearing shorts. My massive ankle brace was obvious for everyone to see, and I didn't feel awkward or have any issues. As the day went on, I put jeans on because it was getting cold. At that point I was getting judgmental looks from both employees and other guests. I have special shoes I have to wear, but if you aren't staring at them they look normal. They are wide enough to accommodate my brace, and provide additional support to stabilize my foot/ankle. If I'm wearing jeans, you cannot tell I'm walking on a pretty severe injury. However, when I wear shorts you can see my brace, and also the size difference in my legs because of all the muscle mass I lost from not being able to walk for so long.

                                    The way I'm treated (and looked at) is significantly different depending on whether or not I'm wearing shorts. I know there are people that cheat the system, but it makes me feel really uncomfortable when people are giving me dirty looks or making not so subtle comments. I think everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt, and that you shouldn't let my injury (whether or not you can see it) ruin your time. I promise you it's no walk in the park (no pun intended :lol
                                    If at first you don't succeed: Skydiving is not the sport for you.

                                    I'm really sad I don't have a cool list of all the times I've been to Disneyland.
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                                    • #38
                                      Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                                      Originally posted by bfdf55 View Post
                                      There are a lot of "disabilities" that have no relation to waiting in line. I don't know what the ratio is of various disabilities, ranging from hearing impaired and blind to totally paralyzed, but it's evident that not all have to have front of line access.

                                      I've gone to Home Depot where they have about 50 handicapped parking spaces ALL in the area closest to the front entrance. I doubt that there have been more than a half dozen occupied at the same time.

                                      Many handicapped spaces are intended to provide wider space in order for wheelchair access. But even there, there is no real reason that they should be close to the entrance. Most wheelchair bound people consider themselves "abled". So they should provide the handicapped spaces, but just randomly sprinkled throughout the parking lots. I'd guess that less then 5% of all handicapped people have disabilities that require close proximity to an entrance or front of line passes.
                                      And it's been pointed out, over and over and over again, in this thread and others, that most GACs do NOT provide front of line access. It's also been pointed out that even when it looks like someone is going to a shorter line than standby they might be waiting 3x longer than standby because of the limited number of accessible ride vehicles or transfer logistics.

                                      As for parking lots, not so much. Whether you're looking at someone in a wheelchair, someone who has major lung impairment or someone who is deaf, there are a lot of safety related reasons to position them closest to the entrance. For instance, it's hard for a lot of cars to see a wheelchair user because they are so close to the ground; the farther they are from the entrance the more likely they are to get hit. If they have other injuries, illnesses or mobility issues they might not be able to walk to the front of the lot. They might not be able to get out of the way of a car or truck quickly. Again, instead of begrudging them the closer spot, be grateful you don't need one of those handicapped placards.

                                      ---------- Post added 07-14-2012 at 09:17 PM ----------

                                      Originally posted by Sheriff Lightyear View Post
                                      Has anyone here agreeing with the OP ever experienced their own handicap, even if it were only for a limited time, or actually know a close family member/friend who is handicapped?

                                      Although not ALL disabilities may require the use of the alternate line, it's pretty unreasonable, invasive, and I'm guessing possibly illegal for Disney to require proof of any specific illness/disability for the pass.
                                      ITA. If they spent even a day in a disabled person's shoes (or chair) they would immediately recognize how many things at Disneyland are difficult even with the access offered; the way they are treated with disdain, and how rough it can be to do things most people take for granted.
                                      Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

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                                      • #39
                                        Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                                        OK, for a positive aspect of the GAC, we got one for our autistic daughter who really had some problems with the overwhelming sensory overload of what Disneyland could offer: noise, lights, crowds, chaos, etc. But since we got the card, she takes control of how we use it. If she sees a queue with a short wait, she will tell us we can wait. If she feels she can wait in a longer line, she will attempt to wait. And when she's in a period of autistic overload, she will let us know and we can use the GAC. The card gives her a sense of being in control of her well being. It's a victory over her autism, not a complete win but a good one.
                                        I am old. But still love Disneyland.

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                                        • #40
                                          Re: People with disabilities should be treated like others... including having to WAI

                                          FOr those unhappy that people with disabilities may "jump" to the front of the line, here's a simple solution. Find a way to grant everyone with a disability perfect health. That way they won't get a special "favor" of special assistance, and you won't wait as long. It's win/win.

                                          Until then, I'm happy to wait a little longer for t hose who aren't as lucky as I am to be in good health.
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