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When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

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  • #21
    Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

    Pirates to me is still the high achievement they never surpassed....you may like other rides more...but Pirates is just an amazing ride from the caves...to the treasure rooms, to the Ship blasting at the main land...to what feels like a real city.....the ride is just something Disney may never top

    Though I do want to say that the Mountain Range in Carsland is VERY impressive in it's own way too but the attraction it houses while fun and impressive too....still does not surpass the Pirates attraction
    Happy Halloween!!!

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    • #22
      Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

      That's the thing Imagineering is always outdoing themselves though certain periods more big projects opened in closer succession than now. I guess a golden age can be described as a period where big projects opened in close time frame. However Imagineering is no where near the limit with the technology of today. Think of how many projects they got in their hat and how secretive they are of Shanghai.

      See ya walkin' right down the middle of o'l Main Street USA




      "THAT'S R
      IGHT CARNEGIE STEEL BUILT THIS PLACE"!!!!!

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      • #23
        Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

        Originally posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
        Pirates to me is still the high achievement they never surpassed....you may like other rides more...but Pirates is just an amazing ride from the caves...to the treasure rooms, to the Ship blasting at the main land...to what feels like a real city.....the ride is just something Disney may never top

        Though I do want to say that the Mountain Range in Carsland is VERY impressive in it's own way too but the attraction it houses while fun and impressive too....still does not surpass the Pirates attraction
        On Pirates the action happens around you. On amazing attractions like Star Tours, Radiator Springs Racers and of course Indiana Jones you are part of the action.
        Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

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        • #24
          Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

          Originally posted by SparkChaser View Post
          That's the thing Imagineering is always outdoing themselves though certain periods more big projects opened in closer succession than now. I guess a golden age can be described as a period where big projects opened in close time frame. However Imagineering is no where near the limit with the technology of today. Think of how many projects they got in their hat and how secretive they are of Shanghai.

          See ya walkin' right down the middle of o'l Main Street USA
          Yeah
          Last edited by WDW1971; 08-05-2012, 06:40 PM.

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          • #25
            Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

            I was born in the 80's and the attractions I admire most are 1955-1969 with a few stand-outs after that like Space Mountain and Splash Mountain. I do agree that it seems that the engineers of today are having trouble topping the level of detail and thoughtfulness of most of the vintage stuff.

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            • #26
              Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

              Originally posted by Gwenchanter View Post
              I was born in the 80's and the attractions I admire most are 1955-1969 with a few stand-outs after that like Space Mountain and Splash Mountain. I do agree that it seems that the engineers of today are having trouble topping the level of detail and thoughtfulness of most of the vintage stuff.
              Yeah
              Last edited by WDW1971; 08-05-2012, 06:40 PM.

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              • #27
                Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                Throwing huge amounts of money on a project doesn't guarantee that it will be an Imagineering triumph. The original DCA cost $600 million which is no small piece of change, yet where was the Imagineering? Instead they put dumb road signs on a state fair roller coaster and called it Mulholland Madness.

                No amount of money spent on rock work, complex ride systems, pretty lights, special effects and high-tech doodads can ever replace the intangibles of originality, imagination, creativity, interactivity, storyline, atmosphere, characters, humor, drama, surprise, thrills, music, design, details and theme.

                Those intangibles are the qualities that Imagineers put into it. They require humans to be imaginative and creative - which doesn't take a billion dollars, just find the right people and pay them well. Otherwise the attraction, land or park could be designed by soulless computer.

                Yes, it takes money to bring the intangibles into a physical form, which the guests experience, but it's not the money or even what is physically built - it's the ideas behind it, that are expressed by the physical realization of it, that are the real experience.

                The machinery of an attraction may be forgotten, but the intangible human qualities that people can relate to are what are remembered from the attraction. Pirates is low-tech by today's standards, but it still has the intangibles such as atmosphere, humor and an unusual non-Disneylike story (the bad guys win). The intangibles can be described and understood by everyone and those are what people remember from the experience.

                Those are the soul of an attraction and none of those intangibles cost a billion dollars, they are products of human imagination. And a billion-dollar attraction without those qualities is worth nothing.
                Last edited by Bob Weaver; 07-23-2012, 07:01 PM.

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                • #28
                  Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                  Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
                  Throwing huge amounts of money on a project doesn't guarantee that it will be an Imagineering triumph. The original DCA cost $600 million which is no small piece of change, yet where was the Imagineering? Instead they put dumb road signs on a state fair roller coaster and called it Mulholland Madness.

                  No amount of money spent on rock work, complex ride systems, pretty lights, special effects and high-tech doodads can ever replace the intangibles of originality, imagination, creativity, interactivity, storyline, atmosphere, characters, humor, drama, surprise, thrills, music, design, details and theme.

                  Those intangibles are the qualities that Imagineers put into it. They require humans to be imaginative and creative - which doesn't take a billion dollars, just find the right people and pay them well. Otherwise the attraction, land or park could be designed by soulless computer.

                  Yes, it takes money to bring the intangibles into a physical form, which the guests experience, but it's not the money or even what is physically built - it's the ideas behind it, that are expressed by the physical realization of it, that are the real experience.

                  The machinery of an attraction may be forgotten, but the intangible human qualities that people can relate to are what are remembered from the attraction. Pirates is low-tech by today's standards, but it still has the intangibles such as atmosphere, humor and an unusual non-Disneylike story (the bad guys win). The intangibles can be described and understood by everyone and those are what people remember from the experience.

                  Those are the soul of an attraction and none of those intangibles cost a billion dollars, they are products of human imagination. And a billion-dollar attraction without those qualities is worth nothing.
                  While throwing money at a project won't guarantee success, it can indicate support for creativity. Imagineering in the early 2000's contained the same people, working on different projects.

                  While OLC totally supported their Imagineers, much of it financially, Disney, in their lack of financial support, failed to support those Imagineers relegated to DCA. Of course, the Imagineers on that project were either tied to creative constraints that prevented any actual outstanding concepts from being developed, or they just did not have the necessary creative capabilities to actually come up with such concepts in the first place.

                  Either way, the same WDI of that time period had created both the BEST and WORST parks the company had ever done at the same time.

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                  • #29
                    Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                    What were the creative constraints that prevented outstanding concepts being developed for the original DCA? Just a lack of money, or were there other constraints that resulted in it being unimaginative and unsuccessful? How could budgeting more money for Mulholland Madness have made it any better? Was lack of money the problem there? Or was lack of vision, creativity and imagination the problem?

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                    • #30
                      Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                      Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
                      What were the creative constraints that prevented outstanding concepts being developed for the original DCA? Just a lack of money, or were there other constraints that resulted in it being unimaginative and unsuccessful? How could budgeting more money for Mulholland Madness have made it any better? Was lack of money the problem there? Or was lack of vision, creativity and imagination the problem?
                      I highly doubt that if DCA 1.0 got the same money as Disney Sea Mulholland Madness would have even seen the light of day.
                      Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

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                      • #31
                        Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                        1979-1980. Disney consisted of Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom at WDW. Its apex was the Big Thunder Mountain attraction. A few years later, Disney would be struggling against a hostile takeover. Disney and WDI needed to be saved. That was it. Henceforth, a corporation was born.
                        I am old. But still love Disneyland.

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                        • #32
                          Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                          Maybe that's just it. Corporations by definition serve the shareholders, Walt served inspiration.

                          Yikes I'm getting depressed the more I think about this =/

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                          • #33
                            Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                            Originally posted by Gwenchanter View Post
                            Maybe that's just it. Corporations by definition serve the shareholders, Walt served inspiration.

                            Yikes I'm getting depressed the more I think about this =/

                            Its really unfair to expect anything else really. How can you expect someone to treat the park like Walt did? It was his baby from the start. No matter how dedicated a ceo or management team is, they will never be able to match the amount of love and care that Walt, the creator of DL, provided.

                            With that being said I do think they are handling the parks pretty well for being a company with no one person in charge with much passion for the parks.

                            Anyway back to the question I'd have to say the 80s-90s. Creatively, WDI was pumping out some awesome stuff. Especially without Walt at the helm, they managed to create some of the best attractions we have. Eisner wasn't a baby with the parks yet and he was still throwing money at them. We got Star tours, Fantasmic!, and Indy out of it, just to name a few.

                            But who knows, we may be on the verge of a WDI renaissance with the recent changes that have happened. As long as we keep getting BVS's, RSR's, and TSMM's...
                            In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

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                            • #34
                              Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                              Originally posted by Pinrar View Post
                              Anyway back to the question I'd have to say the 80s-90s. Creatively, WDI was pumping out some awesome stuff. Especially without Walt at the helm, they managed to create some of the best attractions we have. Eisner wasn't a baby with the parks yet and he was still throwing money at them. We got Star tours, Fantasmic!, and Indy out of it, just to name a few.

                              But who knows, we may be on the verge of a WDI renaissance with the recent changes that have happened. As long as we keep getting BVS's, RSR's, and TSMM's...
                              Interesting
                              Last edited by WDW1971; 08-05-2012, 06:41 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                                The CEO or management team should realize the company's true product is originality. In the "Walt era" the company originated trends in popular culture and entertainment. In the latter-day era the company has chosen to merely reflect and appropriate whatever happens to be popular or trendy already.

                                And I still don't agree with the notion that throwing more money at a project automatically makes it better. What makes a project great are the concepts and ideas that the project expresses.

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                                • #36
                                  Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                                  Originally posted by Seawolf View Post
                                  The very idea that Disney can't even compete with their 40 year old attractions is a testament to this standard.
                                  That's a good point and would lead me to choose the time when Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Tomorrowland 1967 and the original vision for EPCOT were all being developed. The attractions created for the New York World's Fair advanced the art greatly, and so that time is notable too. And of course the original development of Disneyland - doing things that had never been done before - was daring and risky imagineering.

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                                  • #37
                                    Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                                    WDI is only as good as the competence level of the leadership in the company. Walt Disney was very competent at surrounding himself with talented individuals and inspiring them.

                                    Good things have come along in the parks since Walt Disney's passing and some things have NOT been so good. But we learn, grow, press on and move forward!

                                    What I think is unique about the Walt Disney Company today is how many of us still care about what the founder would think or do......that says a great deal about Walt Disney and his legacy. =)

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                                    • #38
                                      Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                                      Originally posted by dgpollard View Post

                                      What I think is unique about the Walt Disney Company today is how many of us still care about what the founder would think or do......that says a great deal about Walt Disney and his legacy. =)
                                      :thumbup:

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                                      • #39
                                        Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                                        suddenly I feel so insignificant

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                                        • #40
                                          Re: When do you think the height of Imagineering was?

                                          Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
                                          suddenly I feel so insignificant
                                          Oh Bob Weaver, you are significant though!

                                          ---------- Post added 07-25-2012 at 11:40 AM ----------

                                          Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
                                          The CEO or management team should realize the company's true product is originality. In the "Walt era" the company originated trends in popular culture and entertainment. In the latter-day era the company has chosen to merely reflect and appropriate whatever happens to be popular or trendy already.

                                          And I still don't agree with the notion that throwing more money at a project automatically makes it better. What makes a project great are the concepts and ideas that the project expresses.
                                          I wish they would realize guests like original rides too. Everest is a great ride even though there is no character relation. I'm sure Radiator Springs Racers would have been great if they did not use the Cars characters.

                                          As long as the ride has a great story and the execution was well done, it should be a stellar attraction but if they still have a good story but cheapen out then guests will not be able to understand the story as easily and they may get bored.

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