[Chat] Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

[RatherBeAtDLand]

You know, I have been thinking for awhile about this one. It makes me wonder. Are we making a mountain out of a molehill with these ticket prices and the effects of them? Now, before you scream, "BUT IT'S DISNEYLAND AND IT'S GETTING TOO EXPENSIVE FOR POOR FAMILIES", hear me out...

1. As one person has pointed out, if ticket prices are up a good amount and attendance is flat, that means that Disney is actually making more money now. So I don't think this is an issue.

2. We are yelling about less annual passholders...but it's been just over two months! Annual passes last a year. I don't think Disney is going to experience any effects from that, if there will be any, for awhile.

3. With park attendance and how it may seem less crowded, we have to keep two things in mind: a) the number of annual passholders is at an all-time high, and many of those passholders are blocked out. In previous years, many of those same people may have come to the park with regular hoppers and b) Cars Land could quite possibly be such a gigantic people eater that it has drastically changed attendance in the park and made it so that it seemed less crowded, which would have been something Disney definitely intended.

So, with that, please take the time to answer my poll. Do you agree? Is this being blown out of proportion? Or do you think this is a real issue, now? Feel free to reply with a more in-depth answer. I'm curious to know what you think!

Final thoughts: Do I see that these price increases could become an issue for Disney? Yes, absolutely. But right now I don't think it's an issue, but we're making it one. That's all I'm saying.

[mickeyfan42]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

honestly, I don't see the AP price increase as an issue because lace it, APs have the opportunity to got so often that their price pays for itself very quickly. But the Daily and multi-day guest prices are what I am worried about the most. 3 friends and I are planning a trip and dividing our cost/person out the admission is by far the most expensive part o the trip. 275 for 4 days vs, 75 for gas, 75 for hotel, and 50/day for food

[Mr Wiggins]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

No matter how it is explained, rationalized or justified, Disney making a significant increase in its ticket prices affects a lot of folks. It affects customers who can't afford to go. It affects those who can afford to go and who find the park pleasantly less crowded because of the absence of those who can't afford to go. If affects Disney itself in ways beyond its bottom line.

"Blown out of proportion?" Not at all. Especially when everyone has a different opinion of what constitutes being "in proportion."

[brenden]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

Ever since the ticket books were discontinued, Disneyland's been "too expensive." The same song's been sung since the 80s.

[calsig31]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

It may have been more justified when Disney was still the industry leader and trend setter. Now that they are only trying to keep up with their competition (a competition that is offering some rides that are easily on par with Disney theming), the price increase as well as the difference between Disney's pricing and that of the competition is much harder to swallow.

[ohmyjustin]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

The price of things can't ever be too small an issue.

[Pinrar]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

Imo there is no "AP problem" so yeah this is a big deal to me. I just don't see the super crowded days as being unbearable as some here would suggest. Especially considering the stories I've heard about how crowded Disney World gets where all of those precious tourists reign supreme.

Plus like I've said before, I'm a little ticked off that they did this all so suddenly. Sure they might think they need to cut down on APs or whatever their reason may be, but to do it so suddenly is what is lame to me. Few years back when the place became a resort and the tourists didn't fill that resort they turned to the locals to pick up the slack. We did, and now we are being dropped like were chopped liver. All in one days notice.

[Dustysage]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

Yep, it's a big deal.

I don't think there is a single family in my office who are currently planning a Disneyland trip and I'm the only one who's seen Cars Land. The reason? Cost.

Just a few years ago, I was constantly hearing from folks who were either planning a trip and wanted my advice or folks who wanted to share their photos and thoughts from a recent trip.

That doesn't mean that no one is going any more. It just means that going to Disneyland has recently become too expansive for the bulk of folks and only rich folks and diehard fans (like myself) can justify the expense.

They problem is likely to get worse before it gets better. The impact of the 30% price increase on passholders is just starting to take effect. We won't see the full impact on that segment for a full year. By then, the 2nd round of increases may have taken effect (if they still go through with them).

[mickdaddy]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

A one time price hike that lasts years I can see but year after year of increases are rediculous it really does effect the average family. The AP increses I understood to lower the AP count but it also ended my dream of getting my family premier AP's since thats a big chunk of change for a famiy of 4 (and thats far from a large family) being out of state we use to try to go a couple times a year now we are lucky to get in one! I understand that there is a need to keep crowds down but at a certain point the value will not match the cost.

[RatherBeAtDLand]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

It may have been more justified when Disney was still the industry leader and trend setter. Now that they are only trying to keep up with their competition (a competition that is offering some rides that are easily on par with Disney theming), the price increase as well as the difference between Disney's pricing and that of the competition is much harder to swallow.

Hmm, I disagree with the fact that Disney is no longer the industry leader and trendsetter. I think they still are, and very much so. The most recognizable name in theme parks is still Disneyland. Disney still owns the highest grossing parks and the parks with the most attendance.

But hey, thanks for the opinions! Mine may be unpopular, but that's okay! I just love a good discussion.

[madgei]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

Yes, it is a big deal. But, it's not going to stop me from going to the parks. I go once a year and at this rate I might just end up going every few years. So, maybe that's the problem. Huge fans will make it work, no matter what the cost. As for families that go just like it's another amusement park will probably stop going because other amusement parks are so cheap compared to DLR. So many factors play in this issue I have a hard time mapping them all out.

[techskip]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

Most comment that we "won't see the effects on AP's until next year". I argue that in some cases we're already seeing them. If you're a Basic and you want to upgrade to Deluxe... how much extra now needs to be handed over? If you're Deluxe, and want Premium, how much more will that cost now that the upgrade is in place? That's the "major" impact. It isn't so much "less AP's" as it is culling the higher level AP's. I'm not entirely against it. The check that was in place for the AP population (Blockout Dates) was rendered moot by the ability to upgrade for only a few extra bucks a month. This sticker shock should put some teeth behind that check.

That said I feel bad for those purchasing ticket media. Be it single day or multi day, single park or multi-park... the tourist and casual local shouldn't be bearing the high cost of the AP program. The higher cost will actually encourage more lower level AP's on the monthly program, which seems to be what Disney is now targeting.

On a personal note; My wife and I haven't been to the park in years specifically because we feel our money is better spent elsewhere. Every year Disney has raised their prices at least once. Each time I smile, knowing I made the right choice. Because of Disney's greed we've been able to travel to a variety of locations that we wouldn't have had Disney kept a lower profit margin. Disney lost our business even if it didn't necessarily price us out.

[Jungle Skipper]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

Look at how many people are there. Price is fine.

[JerrodDRagon]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

Look at how many people are there. Price is fine.

People bought APs and Tickets BEFORE the price went up...I'm sure they are selling new tickets now but until next summer we wont really see the full effects of the new price

I say yes.....simple reason Carsland is something new yes...but DCA should of had something like ti Day one...they made a ok part...and then made it good..and want us to pay for them being cheap

As much as I love the parks...if the prices keep going like this it will be 200 bucks to enter ONE park....I'd never pay that

[calsig31]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

Look at how many people are there. Price is fine.

The number of people in the park is not an indicator that te price is fine. How many of those people cut a day out of their trip due to the price increase? They may be staying 2 days now instead of 3.

How many of those people had to arrange their budget just so that they could accommodate the increase? Maybe they are having all quick service meals instead of sit down. Maybe they are staying off site as opposed to a Disney hotel. Maybe some of them had to tell their kids that they could still go to the park, but now they can't get any souvenirs.

Dont let the attendance numbers fool you. It will take a much larger study to see just how far this increase affects Disney and the consumer.

[Broadway Guru]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

That said I feel bad for those purchasing ticket media. Be it single day or multi day, single park or multi-park... the tourist and casual local shouldn't be bearing the high cost of the AP program. The higher cost will actually encourage more lower level AP's on the monthly program, which seems to be what Disney is now targeting.

I think when DCA flopped, they started trying to encourage more AP's, but that's over. Now that DCA's on its feet, they're starting to look not so much at the type of admission, but more at the type of customer. DL is evolving into a boutique park for Disney branded lifestyle customers. If they lose a few thousand people to Knott's or Universal, so be it. DL isn't for the general public anymore; it's for people who see Disney as a vital part of their identity and will pay any price for it.

Really, they're following the model of professional sports (which, in the form of ESPN, is a much bigger part of WDC than the core Disney brand itself). Attending a sports event live is very expensive and a lot of trouble, so most people are content to watch pro sports on TV. (The view's better anyway.) The people you see at the games are the hardcore fans who identify personally w/ their team and the corporate sponsors who get skybox seats for free.

On a personal note; My wife and I haven't been to the park in years specifically because we feel our money is better spent elsewhere. Every year Disney has raised their prices at least once. Each time I smile, knowing I made the right choice. Because of Disney's greed we've been able to travel to a variety of locations that we wouldn't have had Disney kept a lower profit margin. Disney lost our business even if it didn't necessarily price us out.

Right there w/ you, Tech. I could've gotten an AP, but instead I saw my favorite singer in concert, went back to Knott's for the first time in a decade, saw a hot ticket show, took a bus tour w/ Charles Phoenix, visited the neighborhood where my mom grew up, had lunch at the world's most famous deli, dinner at Bahooka's...and oh, yeah, went to DL for a couple days.

[gomezaddams]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

This is simply a bottom line issue. For us, the premium pass is the only viable option because Saturday is the only day that we can plan on going. A 30% increase is not a small bump.
To some, this is no problem and they can justify any amount. For me, it is the idea of the thirty percent that riles me. In business, you raise prices when your costs go up. You have a profit margin built into the pricing. Disney had a profit margin built into their business model when they offered a $499 pass. Costs do go up & you adjust your pricing. I know for certain that the costs in our business did not go up thirty percent in the last four years, let alone in one year. I highly doubt that theirs did.
That leads me to this logical assumption. They no longer value my business at whatever profit margin they had deemed acceptable a year ago. The bottom line for me is whether their product is worth more to me now than it was a year ago. This is a very tight economy & it is not going to loosen up any time soon. For us to renew our passes, Disney is asking us to use a larger percentage of our discretionary income for what is primarily the same product as it was last year. One can tout the new DCA attractions but what you are talking about, in reality, is one new "E" ticket, three marginal attractions, one new high priced table service restaurant, one new counter service restaurant, and a number of very attractive shops selling the same old generic Disney products. On top of that, these additions were done to rectify the abomination that was DCA 1.0.
For me, it is not a big issue, but it is an issue. I doubt that we will be renewing this fall. It is our discretionary income & we are getting the urge to use it somewhere else. Disney will not shutter their gates, and we will probably get our entertainment somewhere else. We may return & we may not.

[Mr Wiggins]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

Right there w/ you, Tech. I could've gotten an AP, but instead I saw my favorite singer in concert, went back to Knott's for the first time in a decade, saw a hot ticket show, took a bus tour w/ Charles Phoenix, visited the neighborhood where my mom grew up, had lunch at the world's most famous deli, dinner at Bahooka's...and oh, yeah, went to DL for a couple days.

Bingo x2. It's amazing the amount of fun for families, couples and individuals that is available in California and its neighboring states once one has kicked the Disney branded lifestyle habit -- and how affordable it is compared to Disney's ever-rising prices.

[ttrocc7007]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

I'm a big believer in the concept of free market economics. Short of Certain basic utilities and medical care any firm should be able to set whatever prices they wish with the market itself determining wether or not that price point is fair for whatever services being offered.
Hat being said, our family while being able to fairly comfortably deal with Disney's recent increases sat down as a family and did some basic math. For the price of our 3 Premium APS we could instead by 3 round trip tickets to our vacation home as well as paying off close to a full monthly payment on that same home.
We'll be passing on the APs.
Sorry for bad spelling and grammar here. The mini keyboard on this phone is a pain...

[txdisney]

Re: Are we making too big a deal out of the ticket price increases?

This is simply a bottom line issue. For us, the premium pass is the only viable option because Saturday is the only day that we can plan on going. A 30% increase is not a small bump.
To some, this is no problem and they can justify any amount. For me, it is the idea of the thirty percent that riles me. In business, you raise prices when your costs go up. You have a profit margin built into the pricing. Disney had a profit margin built into their business model when they offered a $499 pass. Costs do go up & you adjust your pricing. I know for certain that the costs in our business did not go up thirty percent in the last four years, let alone in one year. I highly doubt that theirs did.
That leads me to this logical assumption. They no longer value my business at whatever profit margin they had deemed acceptable a year ago. The bottom line for me is whether their product is worth more to me now than it was a year ago. This is a very tight economy & it is not going to loosen up any time soon. For us to renew our passes, Disney is asking us to use a larger percentage of our discretionary income for what is primarily the same product as it was last year. One can tout the new DCA attractions but what you are talking about, in reality, is one new "E" ticket, three marginal attractions, one new high priced table service restaurant, one new counter service restaurant, and a number of very attractive shops selling the same old generic Disney products. On top of that, these additions were done to rectify the abomination that was DCA 1.0.
For me, it is not a big issue, but it is an issue. I doubt that we will be renewing this fall. It is our discretionary income & we are getting the urge to use it somewhere else. Disney will not shutter their gates, and we will probably get our entertainment somewhere else. We may return & we may not.

Your conclusion is not quite correct. The problem is some parts of the business are subsidizing other parts. For example, the AP price might go up by 30%, but revenue in other parts of that same business might be down. Overall revenue was only up in 2011 about 10% over 2010. Domestic is up 11% international is only up 6%. However SG&A are up 12% and operating costs are up 9%.

The net of it is that revenue is up 10% (not 30%) and costs are up 8.5%.