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Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

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  • jsmith11618
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Sounds like despite what people were saying about kids not listening and bad parenting that is was indeed just an unfortunate accident, and one that has happened before from the sounds of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • calsig31
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    These changes sound good then. Should prevent similar types of incidents from occurring.

    Leave a comment:


  • flynnibus
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    mouseplanet report states there was an instigating incident that sparked the recent dock changes... no mention of the boat changes

    Report sheds light on Jungle Cruise changes

    An incident in which a 5-year-old girl fell into the water while boarding Disneyland's Jungle Cruise attraction last November prompted some of the recent safety upgrades to the ride, according to a California Division of Occupational Safety and Health (DOSH) report obtained by MousePlanet.

    On November 5, 2011, a child tripped and fell while boarding the Jungle Cruise, slipping into narrow gap between the boat and the dock. A cast member told MousePlanet that a quick-thinking Jungle Cruise skipper pushed the boat away from the dock and pulled the child from the four-foot-deep water. No injuries were reported, but a complaint was filed with DOSH, prompting the agency to begin an investigation.

    After inspecting the ride on three dates in January, DOSH issued a "Notice to Correct" to Disney, requiring the park to implement new safety procedures to close the gap between the boat and the dock, which the inspector measured to range from seven to nine inches, depending on conditions.

    A Jungle Cruise skipper says that even before DOSH filed its notice, Imagineers "swarmed all over" the Jungle Cruise, taking measurements and discussing changes. Within weeks, Disney implemented a new operating procedure that required skippers to load the dock side of the boat first, helping keep the edge of the boat closer to the dock.

    The DOSH report confirms that Disney had already implemented new operational guidelines before their investigation was complete, and that the new guidelines did help to "somewhat" reduce the gap.

    Still, the agency required Disney to "develop and implement a way to reduce and maintain a minimum gap between the dock and the boat," so that "any patron's body or body parts is unable to fall or be entrapped between the boat and the dock." The agency says two other guests have fallen into the water in the past 5 years, and 15 others reported that "part or parts of their body" fell between the boat and the dock during the same period.

    DOSH required Disney to present its plan before starting work.

    Earlier this month, Disney closed the Jungle Cruise to install new bumpers on both the dock and the sides of the boats, along with a new tethering system to keep the boat snug against the dock during load and unload. Disney also added nets around the boats.

    Walt Disney World spokesperson Kathleen Prihoda told MousePlanet that she was unaware of any plans to make similar modifications to the Florida version of the ride.
    Disneyland Resort Update (Disneyland Resort Update) by Adrienne Vincent-Phoenix

    Leave a comment:


  • techskip
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    I was racking my brain trying to figure out why those nets looked so familiar. Then I remembered where I'd seen them before... Harper's concept drawings of the Jungle Cruise Boats (specifically Congo, but Amazon had something blocking the lower section as well). It was never implemented but they are in the drawings, clear as day.

    It looks like the intent was aesthetics, not safety. The illusion is that the blocking was used to define the window areas. They were never actually installed that I know of. The closest I can think of were the paddles that blocked sections back in the 90's (after the Indy refurb). Well... at least I know why those looked familiar...

    Leave a comment:


  • Poisonedapples
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    I see no problem with complying with Disneyland Jungle cruise rules..the other option is that the kid stands up and falls or gets hurt. It's a safety issue..and i think the net is a good idea!

    Leave a comment:


  • techskip
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Sorry I'm being lazy and can't remember who asked about the wrap-around netting. On the Port side of the boat is the Catwalk. A long, slender pier that holds 2 additional boats when the river isn't busy. It's far enough away that Guests have to reach out to touch it, but close enough that it tempts kids.


    One of my technical questions, how are they putting it in at Unload, was answered. Thank you whomever took this shot



    The post and barrel serve two purposes. They "shield" the tie off so no one can easily smack into it. And it presents a larger obstacle so it registers with everyone that there's something there. Right now the Unloader is loading a GAC party. Without going into a LOT of detail, he's facing the Skip in the boat, and grabbing left elbows. Before anyone jumps in about a trip hazard; the standard Unload position when boat front and back are unloading would be his back to the rope as he faces the other Unloader. The only hazard I can see is Guests or a careless Skip running into either the barrel or post.


    the extended loop and golf putter also explain how they're going to do this without a Skip losing a finger. While I can forsee "technical difficulties" I'll reserve my comments until after the "burn-in" period on that one. It also answers the "where does the leash go?" question.


    The netting is flimsy. Some kids might try to stand. Some may sit on parents laps. Other, mischievous kids, might actually test and possibly tear it. I've already heard of a few backpack zippers and purse buckles having issues in it. I don't have a high-rez of Fish's photo but I strongly suspect that is a tear a friend was talking about.

    This is all in the name of safety. So any comments I make pale in comparison to that fact. From a technical standpoint I'm concerned about the potential of a boat being hit while tied off. I know WDI tested the system against a throttled boat (how much throttle is questionable but near the dock you don't go much above a quarter anyways).

    It was traditional to leave Load at a full throttle so as to clear the space for the boat in No Man's. My question is what if No Man's isn't paying attention. The boat at Load throttles but was tied off. No Man's advances not realizing that the boat hasn't moved. Now you've got a hit that I don't believe WDI tested against.

    A second concern is a bump at Unload, similar impact. Unload should be less of a threat unless the Skip in rounding Sam is new. For safety reasons you "should" be facing forward from the moment you round Sam. I have a feeling they'll actually start enforcing that rule now. Because it would't take much for a boat sitting over the switch to hit a tied off boat. Granted the boat will take the hit but I worry about the Storage Switch in that case.

    Minor things, but enough to give a few old hands pause.

    The major "change" will be efficency. This will cut into the counts, there's no way around it. It also means that if the river is backed up there very little the crew can do. In the past if a boat was "slow" the crew could recover using a maneuver called a "Double". The short version is you send a boat directly from Unload to Load (throttling through No Mans) and have 2 extra Skips to help you Unload 2 boats at the same time. It was common place. With the new tie-off they can't do that. Even if they didn't tie the boat in No Man's, for the reason I listed above it would be too risky to chance. No word on GAC loading at No Man's but I suspect that is nix'd as well due to the lack of tie-off.

    Once everyone gets a chance to burn all this in the times will go down and the Skips will hopefully get better at getting everyone on and off in a timely manner. My friends overall have been pretty tight lipped about it. The old friends aren't proud that Jungle was placed under the scope. Out there you learn to adapt. They'll be fine. It just takes time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Garthilk
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    If you're old enough to register on a message board, I imagine the netting isn't going to obscure your vision.

    However, any child under the age of 3 is going to be presented with the choice. Sit firmly on my butt and look through the net, or stand up and get a clear view. I'm pretty sure you can guess what most kids are going to choose.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • ashmonster
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    I went on the Jungle Cruise last night with my bf. Both of us agreed that the netting was no big deal. I actually forgot about it until almost halfway in, it's really not that noticable.I'm fairly short, could see through it just fine and all the kids on the boat were seated and seemed just fine, no one trying to stand to peep over the netting. Honestly, people are making a bigger deal out of this then they ought to. Ride it for yourself and then make the decision!

    Leave a comment:


  • darkamor
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Originally posted by techskip View Post
    After speaking to friends who are current CM's, and seeing Fish's photo, I believe I have my answer ...... but we'll just have to wait and see.
    Bravo Techskip (logistics) & Fishbulb (photographs) for allowing Disneyland Fans to get an idea of what is being implemented & why (& I agree that the current netting border isn't going to last, unless they make it out of a more durable fabric which will not catch zippers n' lil' fingers). I'm concluding it was several things that required changes to be implemented @ the Jungle Cruise (based on known issues) & I hope that it will not slow down the hourly maximum ride capacity (I'm assuming nothing's changed for Park Guest getting ON & OFF who are handicapped, respectfully) ...

    The only other logical agreement (or disagreement) we've all concluded is that its up to Parental Units [a term borrowed from the Coneheads (lol] to decide if their child(ren) are old enough to be on the Jungle Cruise (its my opinion that some rides are not meant for toddlers, which is why I waited until I felt my Nephews were old enough to enjoy the ride without me spending the whole time trying to get the both of them to sit still) ...

    I'm looking forward to more Dateline Disneyland updates -

    C J

    Click image for larger version

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  • techskip
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Originally posted by techskip View Post
    One question that will be answered over time is how well will the netting hold up to the Jungle itself. The weather has a way of breaking down just about anything. So here's hoping it holds.
    After speaking to friends who are current CM's, and seeing Fish's photo, I believe I have my answer


    If you look by the kid's shirt you can see what appears to be a tear. I have a message in to Fish asking for a higher rez to confirm it. That said, several friends have reported how easily the new netting tears and catches on things like zippers. So It would seem they have the "right concept" but the "wrong material". An adverse effect is that Skips are seeing a higher number of standing children. This is where it comes down to being a firm Skip and explaining over the PA that kids must sit down (or sit on laps).

    Originally posted by ttintagel View Post
    As I understand it, the purpose of narrowing the gap between the dock and boat was to make the boats easier to get in and out of. I'm guessing that they added the net on both sides instead of just the dock side for aesthetic balance and/or to prevent people from thinking that someone on the other side of the boat has a "better" or 'worse" seat than they do.
    It was added to the other side because of the pilings from the Catwalk

    This isn't a recurring safety issue
    I don't know how often that information is updated. I know that when I was there we had several injuries a Summer. We would always call first aid and fill out the proper paperwork. As I said it's heartbreaking when a little one gets injured. Adults got no sympathy from me. Recently I was told that Jungle had several incidents that involved the dock's gap, nothing specific.That's why Disney and DOSH are suddenly focusing on it.


    This is a little more surprising. The boat cleat appears to be similar to the one found on the Ucy with one minor exception. On the Ucy a tow rope was used, and it was placed over the cleat. This looks more like a retractable dog leash (I'm awaiting the functionality answers from friends). Currently the install is at Load, so the post doesn't present a problem. There is talk of installing a similar system at Unload. That will be interesting because of the open nature of Unload. I'd be concerned about it being a trip hazard. Assuming they find a way to install it at Unload the next question becomes No Mans (area of dock between Unload and Load).

    Do they allow loading of GAC at No Mans on busy days? What about Doubles? I'm sure the "wrinkles" will eventually be worked out. In the mean time it will hit the hourly counts as the Skippers learn to work with the new modifications. Depending on how things go it may end up adjusting the target counts. It's specific to safety, so I'm cautious but curious as to the implementation... but we'll just have to wait and see.

    Leave a comment:


  • brenden
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    ^

    From the first page:

    Originally posted by techskip View Post
    This is a modification that Jungle Skips have asked for multiple times over the years. Every Summer you'd have kids that hit their hands on the dock. You'd have kids that hit their elbows on the dock. You'd have kids that bumped their heads because they were looking at the water. On rare occasions you'd have kids that smashed their hand between the boat and the black spacers. 2 year olds, 3 year olds, 4 year olds, 5 year olds... the cutoff was usually 6 or 7... I lost track of how many ended up being sent to First Aid. I lost track of how many times I had to push a boat out, and watch helplessly as a little one pulled their hand out of the gap.

    Leave a comment:


  • ttintagel
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
    Was that from an official source? Even if it was, those were only the reported injuries. There may have been other ones that were not severe enough to be reported. I'm sure all those that were hurt or had children that were hurt would have loved it if the screen was in place.

    With the new decrease in distance between the boat and the dock, those injuries would probably go up without the safety devices.
    I guess it's not *completely impossible* that there have been a ton of unreported injuries. Obviously, nobody can prove or disprove an idea like that - for all we know they're hosing a gallon of blood and gore off the dock after closing every night. But from what I've experienced of the Disney parks, I find it incredibly difficult to believe.

    Leave a comment:


  • calsig31
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Originally posted by ttintagel View Post
    I googled Jungle Cruise Injuries,and one of the results was a searchable report of Orange County park injuries, starting in 2009.
    Was that from an official source? Even if it was, those were only the reported injuries. There may have been other ones that were not severe enough to be reported. I'm sure all those that were hurt or had children that were hurt would have loved it if the screen was in place.

    With the new decrease in distance between the boat and the dock, those injuries would probably go up without the safety devices.

    Leave a comment:


  • ttintagel
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Originally posted by brenden View Post
    Source?
    I googled Jungle Cruise Injuries,and one of the results was a searchable report of Orange County park injuries, starting in 2009.

    Leave a comment:


  • brenden
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Originally posted by ttintagel View Post
    This isn't a recurring safety issue; there have only been three hand injuries reported in the last three years on the Jungle Cruise.
    Source?

    Leave a comment:


  • Erik Olson
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    I've listened to the Jungle Cruise spiels many, many times. Closely, for very good reason: I don't want to miss a single new joke! Granted, I haven't heard the spiel as many times as the skippers / former skippers who are in this thread, who can chime-in with comments on my observations...

    My experience with the load and unload is that the jokey, pun-enriched and, perhaps, inconsistent spiel that guests receive may dilute or "confuse" the instructions. I guarantee I do not remember the precise load spiel for Jungle Cruise, but I can recite, word-for-word, the load / unload for Matterhorn - in several languages.

    I've heard dozens of variations on the load and a few zingers as you round the bend to the dock for unload. All of it is soaked in sarcasm and fun. What might be getting lost in the translation is that there are some real rules that should be followed for the guest's safety.

    Would I want to jettison the ad-lib spiels or have netting? I'd opt for netting. My kids are looking in a million directions as they ride the cruise. My ten-year old twins may not listen as much as they are looking for animals, while my eldest daughter (13) is focused like a laser on the dialogue for the jokes. There is a lot to take in on this attraction and if you blink, you could miss a zinger. I guess someone also could lose an iPhone or a kid in the excitement and confusion and that we're making it about bad parenting is a bit of a stretch, and, to me, a bit offensive, really.

    Leave a comment:


  • ttintagel
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    As I understand it, the purpose of narrowing the gap between the dock and boat was to make the boats easier to get in and out of. I'm guessing that they added the net on both sides instead of just the dock side for aesthetic balance and/or to prevent people from thinking that someone on the other side of the boat has a "better" or 'worse" seat than they do.

    This isn't a recurring safety issue; there have only been three hand injuries reported in the last three years on the Jungle Cruise. It's a *future* safety issue that they're guessing *might* happen now that the boat/dock disntace has changed.

    No, you can't watch your kid every second, but I would hope that training them to follow instructions starts at home, long before you get to Disneyland.

    Leave a comment:


  • Drunken_Monk
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
    Conscious would be 'aware' of the problems and people acting accordingly. Like, stay seated else you may get flung out. Instead we have safety CONSTRAINED, where the product is reduced because we want to replace responsibility with controls and limits.

    Adding something like a barrier to prevent arms going out isn't more safe, it's simply more idiot proof. We are forced to protect ourselves from ourselves for fear of litigation.

    The car comparison is poor - those are systems to make something safer in case of an accident.. not things designed to protect users from themselves and within the reasonable boundaries of self control.

    There are
    - things to make things idiot proof
    - things to prevent stupid human tricks
    - things to prevent accidents
    - and things to make accidents less harmful

    Your example is case #4. Covers over moving machinery are examples of case #3. Fences on overpasses are examples of case #2.

    Case #1 and #2 are where things are getting out of control for litigious reasons.
    I dont know if "constrained" would be the best word to explain this, as it is a matter of opinion. Just because you know what will happen if you place your hand in between the boat and the dock, does not mean that a child will know. Little kids are curious about the world and explore in general. They climb on things, pick up things, they reach for things... There is a huge difference between say, adding seat belts to the boats and adding netting that could prevent children from smashing their hand. Yes, parenting is an important key factor in this, but parents cant keep an eye on everything a child is doing 100% of the time.

    Any type of safety measure like the fence on an overpass, anti-lock breaks, air bags, elevator doors that open back up if your arm gets stuck are needed. Regardless of whether its to make accidents survivable or to prevent people from hurting themselves safety prevention is needed and do not diminish or constrain the ride experience. Im not saying we should bubble wrap the world but accidents happen, there is a difference.

    Thanks to TechSkip who saw a reoccurring safety problem and reported it to try and find a solution.

    Leave a comment:


  • christianAdam
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    question...

    Why wouldn't they put the netting on the rails that come closest to the dock and leave the rest alone? one side of the boat doesn't even touch the dock...That way Disney keeps itself protected from people getting hurt and not every view is "obscured"

    edit: I still find it kind of funny that both sides are so difinitive and yet nobody has actually seen this for themselves.

    Leave a comment:


  • calsig31
    replied
    Re: Children Discourged From Riding Jungle Cruise?

    Originally posted by ttintagel View Post
    That's only relevant for those people for whom the Jungle Cruise is the very first ride they go on during their very first trip to Disneyland. You get that warning on every ride. Why would anyone think it didn't apply on this one?
    Actually, every ride does not give that warning. However you bring up the scenario of the Jungle Cruise being the first ride on the first visit. That is all the more reason for this protection. Should we just assume that everyone knows and appreciates the danger?

    Originally posted by darkamor View Post
    calsig31

    Was this decision to modify the distance between the dock & the boats for the Jungle Cruise implemented to increase the flow of boats (& add more ride capacity per hour)? If so, then I would understand a need to make certain modifications to encourage safety (even though there is signage throughout the queue line guiding Park Guests regarding how to ride safely). IF there was one potential safety issue on the boats? It would be the placement of the diesel engine (then again, whether you are a child, or an adult, if you are ignorant enough to touch a hot diesel engine? you earned getting burned) ...

    Keep Calm & Keep Your Mouse Ears On -

    C J

    Leave a comment:

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