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  • Garthilk
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    ... look up all those bs government regulations created since 1900 affecting food processing and packaging, commercial transportation, automobile safety features, clothing, toys, construction methods & materials, medical practice & pharmaceuticals, electric utilities, drinking water quality, amusement park safety, worker safety, household chemicals and the like...
    I am not sure which logical fallacy equates pharamaceuticals to adding railing to a 50 year old amusement park bridge, but I'm sure there is one. :lol:

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Wiggins
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    Obviously we are not saying it should be all or none.
    Obviously you are not, but obviously others are, in this thread and in numerous previous threads on this topic: kneejerk, all-or-none reactions, exactly as I described them.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 09-25-2012, 07:23 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • freddyfreak1999
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by Werner View Post
    Maybe they should put rubber "bumpers" on all of the lightposts and trees, too. No one has yet absent-mindedly run into one, and cracked their skull open, but they could!
    Love it!!! You made my day!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Wiggins
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by Garthilk View Post
    I'd love to meet your challenge, sadly, I haven't found a place where lawsuit greed doesn't exist.
    It's easy. Just go look up all those bs government regulations created since 1900 affecting food processing and packaging, commercial transportation, automobile safety features, clothing, toys, construction methods & materials, medical practice & pharmaceuticals, electric utilities, drinking water quality, amusement park safety, worker safety, household chemicals and the like. Then imagine what all those products, services and industries would be like today if none of the regulations had ever existed.

    Now imagine yourself and your kids living in that world.

    To get a vague sense of what it might be like, check out what goes on today in some of the smaller cities of China.

    Oh, and while living in that imaginary world, no matter how much you and your family are poisoned by adulterated food and medicine, crushed by the collapse of substandard concrete buildings, burned in non-smoke alarmed offices, mangled in auto wrecks caused by defective tires, maimed on unmaintained amusement park rides or killed in crashes of uninspected airplanes, remember -- no lawsuits. Everyone will say you're just being greedy.

    Bon appetit.

    Leave a comment:


  • KellyMcG86
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    By that same logic, since commercial airline travel is enormously safer per passenger-mile than automobiles, the safety regulations for commercial aircraft are bs.




    By that same logic, since there have been enormous numbers of lawsuits involving cars, planes, boats, elevators, doctors, dentists, pharmaceuticals, appliances and toys, the safety regulations affecting cars, planes, boats, elevators, doctors, dentists, pharmaceuticals, appliances and toys are also about people with their hands out, and have nothing to do with safety.

    I'd challenge those who automatically label safety regulations as the product by lawsuit greed, and safety regulators as corrupt, to live, work and travel in a world where neither of them exist.
    I work as a pharmacist both in a hospital and at a retail pharmacy. Trust me, there are procedures in place that actually HINDER patient care, and they are in place due to a fear of being sued. Law suits have forced the balance of "being safe" vs "being scared of going to court" very much out of balance. Obviously we are not saying it should be all or none. That's ignorant, and frankly a very poor tactic to try and prove your point. If you disagree and feel that all of these safety protocols are necessary, fine. I am shocked at how people are twisting words and just dying to go beyond debate and outright demean on here! It's sad!

    How about we all say, well it's not our choice whether or not these things are installed. I can have an opinion, you can have an opinion. What could we do to make it more acceptable to everyone? (ie theming?)

    Im officially stepping out of this fight.

    Leave a comment:


  • Garthilk
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    I'd challenge those who automatically blow off safety regulations as the product by lawsuit greed, and safety regulators as corrupt, to live, work and travel in a world where neither of them exist.
    I'd love to meet your challenge, sadly, I haven't found a place where lawsuit greed doesn't exist.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Wiggins
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by Garthilk View Post
    ...what a load of bull*...

    You name the type of injury and compare it on percentage to a similarly traffic'ed area and Disneyland is by far safter by hundreds of percentage to many publicly and privately provided areas and modes of transportation.
    By that same logic, since commercial airline travel is enormously safer per passenger-mile than automobiles, the safety regulations for commercial aircraft are bs.


    Originally posted by Garthilk View Post
    The simple fact is it revolves around money, not saftey. People with their hands out. People who see disney as another easy mark on which they can augment their financial situation to the detriment to the company.
    By that same logic, since there have been enormous numbers of lawsuits involving cars, trains, boats, elevators, doctors, dentists, pharmaceuticals, appliances and toys, the safety regulations affecting cars, trains, boats, elevators, doctors, dentists, pharmaceuticals, appliances and toys are also about people with their hands out, and have nothing to do with safety.

    I'd challenge those who automatically label safety regulations as the product by lawsuit greed, and safety regulators as corrupt, to live, work and travel in a world where neither of them exist.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 09-25-2012, 05:37 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Garthilk
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Welp,

    I'm probably alone on this, but what a load of bull****. Railing on Matterhorn, new cars on Matterhorn, Railing on Casey Jr, roped in train Conductors, Alice railing, netting on Jungle Cruise, sunglasses for cast members, the list goes on and on.

    You name the type of injury and compare it on percentage to a similarly traffic'ed area and Disneyland is by far safter by hundreds of percentage to many publicly and privately provided areas and modes of transportation.

    The simple fact is it revolves around money, not saftey. People with their hands out. People who see disney as another easy mark on which they can augment their financial situation to the detriment to the company.

    Leave a comment:


  • KellyMcG86
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
    retractable tracks? what would you have tracks for that aren't used all the time?
    Apologies, I meant retractable railings. Retractable tracks would probably not be a great idea.

    Leave a comment:


  • calsig31
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    I'll say it one more time - I wasn't saying that these railings were being built for people who make stupid decisions. I was talking about safety devices overall, a generalization, it does not apply to every case. I don't feel a need to continue to argue this, as I cannot make my point any more clear, and continuing to misinterpret it is out of my hands. Sorry!
    You may not have been talking about railings in general, but the example that you used to represent a stupid decision was walking on the tracks. I'm not sure what other type of safety measure they could use to prevent that other than railings. And again, walking on the tracks is not always a stupid decision. It is part of the job of Disney employees.

    Most safety devices are used to prevent accidental harm. Yes, some may be caused by negligence, however most of the negligence is not on the part of the customer. Negligence would be knowing that the safety devices are exist and that they are feasible to use but failing to do so.

    Leave a comment:


  • flynnibus
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    retractable tracks? what would you have tracks for that aren't used all the time?

    Leave a comment:


  • KellyMcG86
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Hahaha looks like someone understands what I'm saying! ^^^

    Anyway, back to the topic. Has anyone seen retractable tracks? I haven't, or if I have I didn't notice... which would bring me to my question. Are they very noticeable? Would they be able to hide/blend them with attractions?

    Leave a comment:


  • Druggas
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
    William Shakespeare
    King Henry VI Part 2.

    Lawyer, n. One skilled in circumvention of the law.
    Ambrose Bierce
    The Devil's Dictionary.

    Make crime pay. Become a lawyer.
    Will Rogers

    A lawyer with a briefcase can steal more than a thousand men with guns.
    Mario Puzo

    It is better to be a mouse in a cat's mouth than a man in a lawyer's hands.
    Spanish Proverb

    Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne.
    Jesus
    The Bible, Luke 11. 46.

    I don't think you can make a lawyer honest by an act of legislature. You've got to work on his conscience. And his lack of conscience is what makes him a lawyer.
    Will Rogers

    Leave a comment:


  • flynnibus
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by Disneytwins View Post
    Yes, the cleat that they had there tore away from the dock and hit the person right in the face. Breakaway ropes allow the ropes to keep the ship in place, but allow the rope to break if it comes under too much tension. Breaking the rope relieves the pressure on the cleat.

    BTW, is that the proper term for it?
    They don't use breakaways per say... But ropes with specific strengths to match the need to avoid causing more damage. A snapping line is still extremely dangerous and can cut a person in half or cause them to lose a limb. But they do use the term 'breakaway' when using something intentionally weaker because its designed to fail first.

    Example, with horses you use breakaway clips, halters, and lines so if a horse starts to spook or freak out when tied up, It breaks free rather than hurt itself thrashing around

    Leave a comment:


  • PetiteMortKvsh
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    I hope at least they look nice.....Maybe along the theme design.

    Leave a comment:


  • KellyMcG86
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
    Its not stupid decisions to walk the track that the railings are for Workers have to walk the track all the time for safety inspections and maintenance. Sometimes riders must walk on them in an evacuation. That is what the railings are for.
    I'll say it one more time - I wasn't saying that these railings were being built for people who make stupid decisions. I was talking about safety devices overall, a generalization, it does not apply to every case. I don't feel a need to continue to argue this, as I cannot make my point any more clear, and continuing to misinterpret it is out of my hands. Sorry!

    Leave a comment:


  • calsig31
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
    ...but the vast majority of injuries that have occurred at places such as Disneyland are due to people breaking rules and making stupid decisions, such as walking on the track.
    Its not stupid decisions to walk the track that the railings are for Workers have to walk the track all the time for safety inspections and maintenance. Sometimes riders must walk on them in an evacuation. That is what the railings are for.

    Leave a comment:


  • KellyMcG86
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    I'm honestly not super familiar with the circus train/storybook canal attractions, but I wonder if the requirements for these rails allows for more theming? For example, could the Matterhorn have used ropes? (So it would look more like climbing gear) Or could they make fantasy-ish, colorful railings for Alice or the other Fantasyland rides? I don't know what would really fit in, but maybe something less industrial looking.

    Leave a comment:


  • G24T
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by ShelbyH View Post
    Retractable rails are just one more thing to break down and shut down the ride.
    Exactly, imagine if a rail or series of rails failed to raise in an evac situation. Then you need maintenance to not only fix the attraction but fix the rails prior to guests evacuating.

    Leave a comment:


  • KellyMcG86
    replied
    Re: Why not have retractable railings?

    Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
    Since when is a retractable railing designed to protect workers walking the track or riders being evacuated from a ride considered a motive for preventing people from breaking the rules?
    No no, my point was not that "safety devices" are installed to prevent people from breaking the rules. My point is that perhaps the installation of such devices help protect people in case they DO break the rules. Obviously, there is a need for certain things to be in place (i.e. seat belts), but the vast majority of injuries that have occurred at places such as Disneyland are due to people breaking rules and making stupid decisions, such as walking on the track. This may not be the case with all safety railings, but these days there are so many preventative measures taken because people always have to test the limits, and then they get hurt and sue. If they had followed the rules, they would not have been hurt.

    I'm bracing for the inevitable onslaught. Again, I'm not saying that this is or is not the reason for these railings, but I am saying that OVERALL the reason for OSHA and other such requirements is lawsuits, and many of these are from people ignoring safety rules (and common sense).

    Leave a comment:

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