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  • #21
    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

    Originally posted by mekchin View Post
    I heard a rumor from that annual passes may be eliminated in 2013.
    Where'd you hear it?
    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
    designed to appeal to everyone."

    - Walt Disney

    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
    - Michael Eisner

    "It's very symbiotic."
    - Bob Chapek

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    • #22
      Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

      I think that they may either eliminate or raise the Southern California AP passes before they eliminate them all together.

      the last time I was at the resort I was looking at my visit numbers to see if they got the bugs worked out. looks like they did. one visit per park per day. anyway this got me thinking that Disney should also let you see things like how much you spend and save with your AP. maybe broken down by category, food, clothes, collectables etc.

      I know that the marketing data must exist. it's just a matter of letting us see it.

      it may have mixed results though. some may see the numbers and say "wow, I'm getting my money's worth" and renew and others may look at the totals and not renew.

      personally, I live about 400 miles away and usually visit 3-4 times a year for 3-4 days per visit. if they eliminated AP, I would probably only go twice a year at most. so the overall gate revenue would be about the same but my time in the parks would be about half.

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      • #23
        Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

        1. While we may not spend as much as tourist, I certainly pay my share of cash on food, and definitely booze in DCA.
        2. As others have said, the recent price increase is handling the crowds just fine.
        3. APs, not AP's. Cause that's not how an apostrophe works.

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        • #24
          Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

          Me n my family have the AP we go once or twice a month to DLR not every week, because we r busy n have things to do.

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          • #25
            Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

            I don't think so, but more block outs are nearly certainly going to be added as time continues.


            "We believed in our idea - a family park where parents and children could have fun- together."

            -Walt Disney

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            • #26
              Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

              They won't end the AP program, but I hope they thin it out. I remember when the financing began, Al Lutz had numbers that there 200k AP's and it jumped to 1m within a year. There isn't even an off season that locals used to enjoy.

              True DLR lovers like in this forum spend much more than tourists. If DL is worried about dropping renewals, they should have considered that when jacking up the prices and monthly financing the lower passes (really, if you can finance $7/mo, you can pay up front). My whole family had passes for years (8 or 9 of us) and my mom had a list with the dining reservation group that was pages long. We spent plenty until there were too many APers and it was too crowded to even enjoy a half day trip with dinner or something like that.
              It may have zippity to do with doo-dah :ccool:

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              • #27
                Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                Originally posted by kristibaer View Post
                They won't end the AP program, but I hope they thin it out. I remember when the financing began, Al Lutz had numbers that there 200k AP's and it jumped to 1m within a year. There isn't even an off season that locals used to enjoy.

                True DLR lovers like in this forum spend much more than tourists. If DL is worried about dropping renewals, they should have considered that when jacking up the prices and monthly financing the lower passes (really, if you can finance $7/mo, you can pay up front). My whole family had passes for years (8 or 9 of us) and my mom had a list with the dining reservation group that was pages long. We spent plenty until there were too many APers and it was too crowded to even enjoy a half day trip with dinner or something like that.
                I agree with this. The payment option has got to go. If one can't afford it right away, then save up for it. If they really want to make payments on a pass, then that is where a credit card comes in.

                Originally posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
                3. APs, not AP's. Cause that's not how an apostrophe works.
                If we really want to get technical, the proper word here is because. It is also not proper sentence structure to start a sentence with that word.
                "Greetings, Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada."

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                • #28
                  Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                  Originally posted by Chesire View Post
                  So you're saying the first 34 years of the park were bad?
                  The World changes...the parks back then was no a resort and people were not use to it but now people are used it to.....
                  I know for me I'd go much less....and I eat and buy stuff at the parks....so instead of spending over 1,000 bucks a year at the parks....I'd spend maybe 400 every 2 years
                  Happy Halloween!!!

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                  • #29
                    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                    First let me just say that I have been a Premium AP holder for almost 10 years so I KNOW I am part of the problem

                    I know I've posted this in another thread but if you look at the actual breakdown of the AP you could kind of see that there would be some validity to removing the Annual Pass due to profit loss.

                    Lets just look at the Premium AP for instance...

                    The current price is at $649 which includes parking
                    while the current 1-day park-hopper ticket for an adult is $125 not including parking at an extra $15

                    So simple math would say that if you own a premium pass and go at least 5 times in one year (which is not much considering some Premium AP holders) then your pass is all but paid for, correct?

                    $125 + $15 = $140
                    $140 x 5 = 700

                    So if you think about it every trip that is made after that 5th trip becomes money lost on a potential ticket from a regular guest. Especially on the those busy days where AP holders flood the park.

                    So if you have a Premium AP and have gone more than 5 times, you would have to spend at least $125 per visit per person for Disneyland to see any kind of profit from your visit as opposed to seeing immediate profit from a regular paying guest paying for parking and a 1 day park-hopper.

                    Then again I could be completely wrong, it's early and I have yet to finish my coffee :geek:
                    "If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that"




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                    • #30
                      Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                      Originally posted by christianAdam View Post
                      First let me just say that I have been a Premium AP holder for almost 10 years so I KNOW I am part of the problem

                      I know I've posted this in another thread but if you look at the actual breakdown of the AP you could kind of see that there would be some validity to removing the Annual Pass due to profit loss.

                      Lets just look at the Premium AP for instance...

                      The current price is at $649 which includes parking
                      while the current 1-day park-hopper ticket for an adult is $125 not including parking at an extra $15

                      So simple math would say that if you own a premium pass and go at least 5 times in one year (which is not much considering some Premium AP holders) then your pass is all but paid for, correct?

                      $125 + $15 = $140
                      $140 x 5 = 700

                      So if you think about it every trip that is made after that 5th trip becomes money lost on a potential ticket from a regular guest. Especially on the those busy days where AP holders flood the park.

                      So if you have a Premium AP and have gone more than 5 times, you would have to spend at least $125 per visit per person for Disneyland to see any kind of profit from your visit as opposed to seeing immediate profit from a regular paying guest paying for parking and a 1 day park-hopper.

                      Then again I could be completely wrong, it's early and I have yet to finish my coffee :geek:
                      Only on a day when Disneyland fills to the point that they stop selling tickets. And you're probably blocked out those days, unless you're a Premium Passholder.



                      Originally posted by xceemora View Post
                      Me n my family have the AP we go once or twice a month to DLR not every week, because we r busy n have things to do.
                      I see you are able to save lots of time by eliminating vowels from your words.
                      Last edited by CaliforniaAdventurer; 10-02-2012, 08:12 AM.

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                      • #31
                        Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                        To answer your question,I have not heard of this, and i googled it and nothing game up.I think the AP's are a money saver specially with the parking included on the premium,$15 to park every time you go does add up.I do not think it's entirely accurate that nobody is spending money like a tourist anymore in the parks, tell my credit card this and it will tell you that's impossible! LOL

                        ---------- Post added 10-02-2012 at 09:12 AM ----------

                        Originally posted by DARTH MAUL View Post
                        1. While we may not spend as much as tourist, I certainly pay my share of cash on food, and definitely booze in DCA.
                        :thumbup: yes..me too.. love the wine bar...:vogue:



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                        • #32
                          Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                          ChristianAdam,
                          That makes perfect sense.
                          However, I'm not certain we have a definitive answer regarding daily spending. Sure, the average tourist spends more per day on food and merch. But does the AP spend less but often enough to trump this?
                          Just for the sake of numbers lets say the average tourist spends $150 on food and merch, whereas the AP spends $30 on each visit. Using that low 5 visits per year scenario, that already matches what the average tourist would spend.
                          Now for the LOCAL APs, I would assume the average visit per year is closer to 12. In that case, using $30/visit, the total for the year is $360.

                          That said, I believe the answer would be what we've already seen from corporate. Raise the price out of some peoples range, and perhaps in the future, add more block out dates. Local APs are loyal and will find days to go. Tourists are more limited time-wise. It's like cattle; the APs will be herded into the non-peak season pens while the tourists will fill up the peak season pens.
                          With kind regards,
                          The Tony

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                          • #33
                            Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                            I think the OP maybe heard that the CALIFORNIA RESIDENT ones are going away, which Al has suggested may be the case.

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                            • #34
                              Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                              Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                              I think the OP maybe heard that the CALIFORNIA RESIDENT ones are going away, which Al has suggested may be the case.

                              omg!! that would be great if they did, because it's useless!



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                              • #35
                                Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                                Originally posted by APJ1127 View Post
                                ChristianAdam,
                                That makes perfect sense.
                                However, I'm not certain we have a definitive answer regarding daily spending. Sure, the average tourist spends more per day on food and merch. But does the AP spend less but often enough to trump this?
                                Just for the sake of numbers lets say the average tourist spends $150 on food and merch, whereas the AP spends $30 on each visit. Using that low 5 visits per year scenario, that already matches what the average tourist would spend.
                                Now for the LOCAL APs, I would assume the average visit per year is closer to 12. In that case, using $30/visit, the total for the year is $360.

                                That said, I believe the answer would be what we've already seen from corporate. Raise the price out of some peoples range, and perhaps in the future, add more block out dates. Local APs are loyal and will find days to go. Tourists are more limited time-wise. It's like cattle; the APs will be herded into the non-peak season pens while the tourists will fill up the peak season pens.
                                Thank you for not making me think I was crazy!

                                Yes, the tourist could possibly spend $150 in the park but they have also already had to purchase their ticket. DLR would already profit $125 for an admission to the park from a regualr guest and then an added $150 during their visit for whatever food/merch so disney just made a profit of $275 off of that one guest. which is where the DLR would be losing money from an AP stand point; on your 6th visit you would actually be causing Disney to lose profit by your admission into the park...in order to cover that admission cost a Premium AP would have to spend the minimum of $125 per day on food and/or merch. Which I know I have not done, so after that whatever money you spent per visit would THEN be profit to them. So spending $30 a day wouldn't cover the cost of admission

                                ---------- Post added 10-02-2012 at 09:39 AM ----------

                                Originally posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
                                Only on a day when Disneyland fills to the point that they stop selling tickets. And you're probably blocked out those days, unless you're a Premium Passholder.
                                So you don't think there was MASSIVE profit loss on the "One more Disney Day" promo?

                                My whole thing is this, Yes the attendance will be higher with AP guests...BUT that means that the DLR has to bring in more staffing to handle the bigger crowds, but if your crowd is 60% passholders that have already gone to the park enough to cover the cost of their AP then Disney is losing mass profit. You have to pay staff to help run a park that is filled with people who are costing the DLR money everytime they go (again, AFTER they have gone to the park enough to cover the cost of whatever AP they own).
                                Last edited by christianAdam; 10-02-2012, 08:40 AM.
                                "If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that"




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                                • #36
                                  Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                                  Originally posted by christianAdam View Post
                                  Thank you for not making me think I was crazy!

                                  Yes, the tourist could possibly spend less in the park but they have also already had to purchase their ticket which is where the DLR would be losing money from an AP stand point

                                  So on your 6th visit you would actually be causing Disney to lose profit by your admission into the park...in order to cover that admission cost a Premium AP would have to spend the minimum of $125 per day on food and/or merch. Which I know I have not done, so after that whatever money you spent per visit would THEN be profit to them. So spending $30 a day wouldn't cover the cost of admission
                                  I doubt it is that simple. First you need to think about how many times the average pass holder would go a year paying full hopper price if they didnt go with the AP. I doubt most people would actually go 5 times a year with basic tickets. So what disney is actually doing is luring people in and sort of forcing them to pay 5 days worth of tickets, or most likely, 3 or 4 more tickets worth than they would buy otherwise.

                                  Yes they get to go more often than 5 times a year but like I said in my earlier post, those days after the 5th probably dont add very much to park operating costs so they are still taking in a lot more revenue from the passholder than they would have if the program didn't exist.
                                  In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

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                                  • #37
                                    Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                                    Originally posted by Pinrar View Post
                                    I doubt it is that simple. First you need to think about how many times the average pass holder would go a year paying full hopper price if they didnt go with the AP. I doubt most people would actually go 5 times a year with basic tickets. So what disney is actually doing is luring people in and sort of forcing them to pay 5 days worth of tickets, or most likely, 3 or 4 more tickets worth than they would buy otherwise.

                                    Yes they get to go more often than 5 times a year but like I said in my earlier post, those days after the 5th probably dont add very much to park operating costs so they are still taking in a lot more revenue from the passholder than they would have if the program didn't exist.
                                    You also have to factor in that those guests coming in for a 3 or 4 or 5 day park visit also need to stay at a hotel so that also opens another oppurtunity to gain more profit by offering a stay at one of the DLR hotels. Yes an AP probably would not visit the park as much if the AP was wiped clean but that would also guarentee that every person coming into the park would be all profit all the time. It would bring back an actual "off season" which would require lower staffing which in turn would also bring down the daily cost of operations

                                    I think I answered the other part of your post in the post above.
                                    "If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that"




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                                    • #38
                                      Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                                      I would not be surprised to see another sizable price increase in 2013. The parks only have so much capacity, and while people tend to love seeing attendance numbers grow, there is a cap. The Disneyland Resort may well be at or near a point where it would be better to try and lower attendance some. To make that work, revenue per person needs to increase.

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                                      • #39
                                        Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                                        Originally posted by Poisonedapples View Post
                                        omg!! that would be great if they did, because it's useless!
                                        That's a little strong. Depending on one's work/school schedule, A SoCal or even a SoCal Select AP can get you into the park plenty of times.

                                        There are a couple of things I usually see missing from discussions like these, and other things that I do see that don't make sense. And yes they are related.

                                        I generally don't see anyone considering Disney's costs in anything. People are quick to mention anecdotal data on how much they spend, but they seldom if ever considers Disney's costs in bringing that product to the consumer. Somebody had to slop and slaughter the hog that went into that corn dog (don't get me started on corn costs), somebody had to fry it up, somebody had to give the red wagon a fresh coat of paint. It would be helpful in these discussions if we had some idea of Disney's profit margin of various items. How much does Disney profit from that $50/$150/$500 you spend?

                                        Something else I see is the point that APs "drive attendance up", as if this is necessarily a good thing. I think most people would agree that higher attendance costs the company more than "light" days in labor costs. And if those additional "attendees" aren't spending enough on those high-profit items, the company can profit from them not being in the park.

                                        Lastly, I am amused by how people think they know better than the company how to run their business. I'm saddened by such misconceptions on the part of political leaders, but I think it's funny how some micechatters think they know better than those who have actual numbers and assume the risks associated with taking action based on those numbers.
                                        "She's taking everything. She's taking the house, she's taking the kid, she's taking the dog. IT'S NOT EVEN HER DOG. IT'S MY DOG! SHE'S TAKING . . . MY DOG!"
                                        - Ron Livingston, "Band of Brothers"

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                                        • #40
                                          Re: No more annual passes in 2013?

                                          I haven't read the whole thread but it comes down to simple mth. If they make money off it they stay. I would say if one of the teir isn't pulling it's weight then it would go away. IMO that's the cheapest pass they offer.

                                          The rumor about APers not spending as much as turoists is just a rumor. None of us know that number or ever will. Even CMs will barely have this information not as a whole. Someone in the corporate office can produce this report and it would never be shared publically.

                                          I know I spend a lot with my AP on merchandise especially pins/art/clothes and I am not alone. the people in those long lines for limited edition items and events aren't tourists.

                                          In the eyes of a corporate entity like Disney is the more people in your "store" the more they spend. They are quite happy with their filled parks. It was different when Walt was alive because he would spend his own money to keep the park going, or not puch as much ephasis on making money all the time . That pretty much won't happen today unless Richard Branson buys Disneyland
                                          These are some of my favorite TRs I have posted

                                          DL 55th BDAY trip report
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                                          NYE 2011 trip report
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                                          Leap year 24 hour report
                                          New DCA trip report
                                          NYE 2012
                                          HKDL trip report

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