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  • #41
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
    You should have gone to City Hall with the names of the workers who casually shrugged off a seatbelt issue. That does not seem to be an offense that would allow one to keep one's job.
    One should know all the facts before trying to get one fired.

    Comment


    • #42
      Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

      I rolled my eyes so hard that I pulled a muscle at some the folks here advocating employee termination and berating the CM's because out of the 1000s of people they probably dealt with that day, they didn't coddle two people who by their own admission panicked themselves. As perfect as some you might think you are I assure you, you would be unemployed very fast if you were held to that high of an error standard in your own job (less than 1%).

      It was probably frightening to the OP, I have no doubt. Anyone who has paid even a little attention to how things work would know that the ride would not make it out of the final check point if the seat belt wasn't buckled. None of you advocating their termination were there to see what kind of crowds they were dealing with or what else was going on in the loading area besides two panicked guests heading towards a safety check. If they could have soothed them, they would have I would have bet, but they didn't in this one case. One case, out of how many in an 8 hour shift. As I said, no matter how perfect you think you are, none of you would be employed under such a strict requirement, especially if your job involved dealing with people. If you think errors like this didn't happen when Walt ran the park, you are delusional and know nothing about humanity and probability.

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      • #43
        Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

        Hi Malina,

        I see a lot responses. You asked "Is this what should have happened?"

        The short answer is you were fine. There was no danger.


        The long answer. If you ever just watch the process of loading guests at this attraction, just while you are in line, you will see several incidents of guest still fastening their seat belts at that last stop at the mouth of the cave that takes you up the lift hill. It honestly is common. I am sorry it happen to you and that in doing so, it created a panic in your heart. A quick "It's ok someone will help you before it goes" may have gone a long way to calm your concerns. Cast members deal with this time and time again, several times an hour. It may be the first time for you, but for them it likely becomes a very monotonous routine. This is not to justify their actions, after all they should always be understanding that what is routine to them, is a new and alarming experience to you and the next guest and the next one and the next one...... etc. To you and each of those guests they should be equally compassionate, understanding and proactive in calming your concerns. But in the course of hour after hour, day after day.... Again, not saying its ok how they handled it, but I do understand the mentality they were likely in. It is the Disney way.... clearly no. Is it human nature.... I will let you decide.

        All that said, it is correct that the Matterhorn will not dispatch with out all six belts fastened. They aren't really checking that your belts are fastened, the system does that part just fine. And yes they are sort of double checking the system but.... more then that they are checking for those who might try to cheat the system for cheap thrill by fastening the belt first, and then sitting on top of it.

        Remember the old sleds could not only be dispatch with out belts fastened, but a rider could unfasten them after dispatch. They were built in a day and time where the guest could be trusted to just keep the seat belt fastened. And if they didn't... well I do know of people who have unfastened their belt during the ride and lived to tell about.

        Due to this, I do know the old sleds would not throw you from them if you did not wear your seatbelt. Of course this assume normal operation.
        Last edited by Kidgenie; 10-07-2012, 10:51 PM.

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        • #44
          Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

          Originally posted by burdenx View Post
          I don't know how CMs put up with what they do. Thanks for reminding me I don't miss customer service in the least.

          Agreed. I don't know how they put up with these idiots that spend hundreds of dollars to bring their families to the park. Dollars that actually pay these CM's wages, as meager as they may be. And HOW do these moron customers not know that they were perfectly safe? I mean, it's obvious that someone checking that the seatbelt is fastened with a flashlight is just for show and is not really needed. And HOW ON EARTH do they not know that the ride is completley fail safe and won't start with all belts fastened? Duhhhhhh.

          Comment


          • #45
            Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

            Sounds like a case of the: "Please dont make me dig in there and get your seatbelt for you, oh thank goodness you finally got it on." Stuff like this happens hundreds of times a day.

            Quite frankly we're better off on both our parts doing that than running up screaming yelling "STOP THE SLED THEY DONT HAVE SEATBELTS ON OH MY GOD!!!"

            Comment


            • #46
              Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

              Originally posted by monster heck View Post
              One should know all the facts before trying to get one fired.
              The facts were stated in the original post. The seatbelt wasn't working causing some concern to these riders. Disney workers ignored these concerns thus failing to do their job. A complaint made to City Hall is valid and justified.
              Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
              out of the 1000s of people they probably dealt with that day, they didn't coddle two people who by their own admission panicked themselves.
              Out of the thousands of bolts the maintenance inspectors looked at on September 5th, 2003 they missed the few that happened to hold the axel assembly on Thunder Mountain. Should that be just shrugged off as well?
              Big Thunder Railroad Death Brings Big Admission From Disney | The Legal Examiner Pinellas

              A panicked rider can be just as dangerous depending on the frame of mind they are in and how deep the concern is for their safety.
              "Greetings, Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada."

              Comment


              • #47
                Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                as I just said in the Space post... Im sure managment reads this site and Im sure they'll be notified of it

                Comment


                • #48
                  Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                  Originally posted by Kidgenie View Post
                  Hi Malina,

                  I see a lot responses. You asked "Is this what should have happened?"

                  The short answer is you were fine. There was no danger.


                  The long answer. If you ever just watch the process of loading guests at this attraction, just while you are in line, you will see several incidents of guest still fastening their seat belts at that last stop at the mouth of the cave that takes you up the lift hill. It honestly is common. I am sorry it happen to you and that in doing so, it created a panic in your heart. A quick "It's ok someone will help you before it goes" may have gone a long way to calm your concerns. Cast members deal with this time and time again, several times an hour. It may be the first time for you, but for them it likely becomes a very monotonous routine. This is not to justify their actions, after all they should always be understanding that what is routine to them, is a new and alarming experience to you and the next guest and the next one and the next one...... etc. To you and each of those guests they should be equally compassionate, understanding and proactive in calming your concerns. But in the course of hour after hour, day after day.... Again, not saying its ok how they handled it, but I do understand the mentality they were likely in. It is the Disney way.... clearly no. Is it human nature.... I will let you decide.

                  All that said, it is correct that the Matterhorn will not dispatch with out all six belts fastened. They aren't really checking that your belts are fastened, the system does that part just fine. And yes they are sort of double checking the system but.... more then that they are checking for those who might try to cheat the system for cheap thrill by fastening the belt first, and then sitting on top of it.

                  Remember the old sleds could not only be dispatch with out belts fastened, but a rider could unfasten them after dispatch. They were built in a day and time where the guest could be trusted to just keep the seat belt fastened. And if they didn't... well I do know of people who have unfastened their belt during the ride and lived to tell about.

                  Due to this, I do know the old sleds would not throw you from them if you did not wear your seatbelt. Of course this assume normal operation.
                  THANK YOU! someone explained it over the bias "it's all CMs/Disney fault" issue. Really I would have explained it but the posts here sometimes really anger me where I really don't want to reply but glad you brought it all up in a well written post.

                  Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
                  The facts were stated in the original post. The seatbelt wasn't working causing some concern to these riders. Disney workers ignored these concerns thus failing to do their job. A complaint made to City Hall is valid and justified.
                  but not ALL the facts. we're going on what she experienced not the CMs at hand so we're only getting her side. A bit unfair but that cannot be helped. the seatbelt WAS working because if it wasn't she wouldn't have been able to ride. we know they didn't irgnore her because the ride isn't fully automated. someone has to confirm if something is ok or not before pushing a button for dispatching or to hold and fix the issue. it's not just the CMs on track but also the Control Tower CM is following things too and seeing if everything is ok. Again I myself ask anyone who is panicking/confused about how things are going if they're ok so Perhaps the CMs down there could have been more attentive but to accuse them of failing in their safety job for a small lack of attention is a bit unfair especially when you have many CMs following what is going on. Your article is unfair to post as an example because you can still be perfect in everything you do but things small or big will happen. yes there was faulty work at hand but tell me what are the odds of death on a coaster?

                  Granted I don't know Matterhorn so I know nothing of how their operation really works but all you have to do is observe and ask.

                  ...As I see it

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                    Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
                    The facts were stated in the original post. The seatbelt wasn't working causing some concern to these riders. Disney workers ignored these concerns thus failing to do their job. A complaint made to City Hall is valid and justified.


                    Out of the thousands of bolts the maintenance inspectors looked at on September 5th, 2003 they missed the few that happened to hold the axel assembly on Thunder Mountain. Should that be just shrugged off as well?
                    Big Thunder Railroad Death Brings Big Admission From Disney | The Legal Examiner Pinellas

                    A panicked rider can be just as dangerous depending on the frame of mind they are in and how deep the concern is for their safety.
                    Oh gosh! What an epiphany you gave me. YES! Inspecting safety bolts is EXACTLY like rushing over to coddle a panicked person having an issue with something that is about to be actually checked by another person who's job it is to check it. Yes, FIRE THEM ALL IMMEDIATELY. (/sarcasm) Also note I never said anything at all about not complaining to City Hall. If they feel it was such a trauma, they are welcome to do just that. I SPECIFICALLY stated I was talking about the calls to terminate the CM's employment and belittling the CMs due to this situation.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                      No matter what the protocol is, if a customer is concerned about anything, especially their safety, that should be a priority for a CM to address. All they have to do is explain that the belt will buckle at that last stop. For them to not address this is poor customer service, and there is no arguing that. I don't care if it wasn't a true safety concern, if the customer feels its a concern to them, it IS. Obviously, if the customer continued to freak out even after having the procedure explained to them, then it's the customer's fault and they are choosing to be an issue. Based on the OP's report, that is not the case. All it would have taken is one sentence to explain that they don't need to worry because it isn't designed to buckle until that last stop. Plain and simple.

                      I'm sorry that happened to you, it should not have! Hopefully it will be addressed and corrected.


                      Thank you to Poisonedapples for my awesome signature!
                      KellyMcG86's Disneyland To Do List

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                      • #51
                        Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                        ^ Very well said.
                        "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                        it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                        together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                        designed to appeal to everyone."

                        - Walt Disney

                        "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                        - Michael Eisner

                        "It's very symbiotic."
                        - Bob Chapek

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                          Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
                          The facts were stated in the original post. The seatbelt wasn't working causing some concern to these riders. Disney workers ignored these concerns thus failing to do their job. A complaint made to City Hall is valid and justified.
                          The guest's EXPECTATIONS of the CM's roles and responsibilities based on their own guesses are not 'facts'.

                          Your positioning of this as 'the facts were stated in the original post' is pretty much the poster child of the adage of 'There are two sides to every story...'
                          Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


                          Am I evil? yes, I am
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                          Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

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                          • #53
                            Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                            As we discuss CMs ignoring her frazzled complaints, consider the following:

                            1) There is a load position and a seat belt check/ dispatch position. The seat belt checker was responsible for ensuring the safety of the guests in the bobsled before Malinas first and then to dispatch them. The next step would be to help Malina in her sled, who according to her own story, had her belt buckled by then.

                            2) The load CM would have put the lives of at least 12 guests at risk by leaving her post watching load and unload to help a screaming guest that she knew was safe.

                            One thing you are not considering, Malina, is that CMs are busy ensuring the safety of everyone, not just you. The dispatch CM would have absolutely helped you. They did not have a CM to help you right at that second. I'm sure no one was trying to go out of their way to ensure the screaming guest received no help... There are much more important things to do when operating a ride such as Matterhorn that take priority over that.
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                            • #54
                              Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                              It has not loops....unless you weight less then 50 pounds and are not holding to the hand rails...or holding the seat belt you will not fall out that ride
                              Happy Halloween!!!

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                              • #55
                                Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                Originally posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
                                No matter what the protocol is, if a customer is concerned about anything, especially their safety, that should be a priority for a CM to address. All they have to do is explain that the belt will buckle at that last stop. For them to not address this is poor customer service, and there is no arguing that. I don't care if it wasn't a true safety concern, if the customer feels its a concern to them, it IS. Obviously, if the customer continued to freak out even after having the procedure explained to them, then it's the customer's fault and they are choosing to be an issue. Based on the OP's report, that is not the case. All it would have taken is one sentence to explain that they don't need to worry because it isn't designed to buckle until that last stop. Plain and simple.
                                That is the best reply of this thread. All other replies are variations of baloney.
                                Alleviating a guest's fears for their safety is not "coddling" them. It is your job.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                  Originally posted by Eric5675 View Post

                                  One thing you are not considering, Malina, is that CMs are busy ensuring the safety of everyone, not just you. The dispatch CM would have absolutely helped you. They did not have a CM to help you right at that second. I'm sure no one was trying to go out of their way to ensure the screaming guest received no help... There are much more important things to do when operating a ride such as Matterhorn that take priority over that.
                                  No, I freely acknowledged that. However, as the others here have said, it would have taken one sentence to get me to stop panicking. One sentence. The load and flashlight people can't leave their posts? Okay, but as I am passing right by them and screaming, and my friend is screaming, maybe they should have said "don't worry, the belt will work" or something along those lines instead of just blankly staring at me. That would not have required them to leave their posts, would it?

                                  The response here seems to show a little bit of contempt. Telling a CM that one's seat belt does not appear to be extending is not a "frazzled complaint." It's a valid concern. If you're going into the day with a dismissive attitude toward guests, assume everything they ask about must be wrong, and they must be idiots who just don't get it...you're going to miss when they have real concerns you need to address. You're also going to offer very poor customer service.

                                  ---------- Post added 10-08-2012 at 11:15 AM ----------

                                  Originally posted by Kidgenie View Post
                                  Hi Malina,

                                  I see a lot responses. You asked "Is this what should have happened?"

                                  The short answer is you were fine. There was no danger.


                                  The long answer. If you ever just watch the process of loading guests at this attraction, just while you are in line, you will see several incidents of guest still fastening their seat belts at that last stop at the mouth of the cave that takes you up the lift hill. It honestly is common. I am sorry it happen to you and that in doing so, it created a panic in your heart. A quick "It's ok someone will help you before it goes" may have gone a long way to calm your concerns. Cast members deal with this time and time again, several times an hour. It may be the first time for you, but for them it likely becomes a very monotonous routine. This is not to justify their actions, after all they should always be understanding that what is routine to them, is a new and alarming experience to you and the next guest and the next one and the next one...... etc. To you and each of those guests they should be equally compassionate, understanding and proactive in calming your concerns. But in the course of hour after hour, day after day.... Again, not saying its ok how they handled it, but I do understand the mentality they were likely in. It is the Disney way.... clearly no. Is it human nature.... I will let you decide.

                                  All that said, it is correct that the Matterhorn will not dispatch with out all six belts fastened. They aren't really checking that your belts are fastened, the system does that part just fine. And yes they are sort of double checking the system but.... more then that they are checking for those who might try to cheat the system for cheap thrill by fastening the belt first, and then sitting on top of it.

                                  Remember the old sleds could not only be dispatch with out belts fastened, but a rider could unfasten them after dispatch. They were built in a day and time where the guest could be trusted to just keep the seat belt fastened. And if they didn't... well I do know of people who have unfastened their belt during the ride and lived to tell about.

                                  Due to this, I do know the old sleds would not throw you from them if you did not wear your seatbelt. Of course this assume normal operation.
                                  Thank you very much for this, and for all of the others who have added helpful information. It makes sense.

                                  ---------- Post added 10-08-2012 at 11:18 AM ----------

                                  Originally posted by KellyMcG86 View Post
                                  No matter what the protocol is, if a customer is concerned about anything, especially their safety, that should be a priority for a CM to address. All they have to do is explain that the belt will buckle at that last stop. For them to not address this is poor customer service, and there is no arguing that. I don't care if it wasn't a true safety concern, if the customer feels its a concern to them, it IS. Obviously, if the customer continued to freak out even after having the procedure explained to them, then it's the customer's fault and they are choosing to be an issue. Based on the OP's report, that is not the case. All it would have taken is one sentence to explain that they don't need to worry because it isn't designed to buckle until that last stop. Plain and simple.

                                  I'm sorry that happened to you, it should not have! Hopefully it will be addressed and corrected.
                                  Thank you.
                                  Last edited by Malina; 10-08-2012, 12:57 PM.
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                                  • #57
                                    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                    Malina, I'm sorry this happened, I would probably be upset too. Personally, I always advocate for the people who work the customer service positions, simply because people suck. However, I think it's a little odd they just stared at you, yes, they could just screamed back, "don't worry, we'll get it" or something. No, I don't think they should be fired. But, maybe they didn't understand what you were screaming abuout? they couldn't hear or something. Which would make it really weird that no one investigated.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                      Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
                                      Slightly off-topic, but still on the topic of Matterhorn safety: what if something lands on the track somewhere? A hat or whatever is sitting on the track. How do they know something is there? Does the ride shut down? And how do they retrieve the object?
                                      In the first week or so after the Matterhorn reopening this summer, I did have a ride where there was a hat on the track that I was riding on. Now we just rolled over it just fine, but knowing that nothing should really be on the track, benign or not, I alerted the CMS at the end of the ride, even telling them what track I was on and where exactly the hat was. The only response I got was a blank look and an "OK". Now I know it wasn't a HUGE emergency as we rolled over it just fine, but I really think this kind of apathy towards something small could result is something big. If the hat was on the track, it could do something, you never know.

                                      To this day, I'm a little nervous about stuff like that because there are so many different things guests could lose or even throw on the track that COULD do damage to the car or alter the path it takes, and just because it was a simple hat, doesn't mean it didn't warrant at least a look at it.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                        I think this could be a scary experience especially if you do not know how the ride system worked. I understand how you could be scared at the time, but I think the important thing is that the seat belt was put on. I'm sure the Cast Member only had time to nod. I'm sure this is a high stressed position as they have to worry about a number of things.
                                        Jeff Wayne






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                                        • #60
                                          Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                          Originally posted by Infernoman View Post
                                          the seatbelt WAS working because if it wasn't she wouldn't have been able to ride.
                                          Again, this is not really the point. The point is that she had the perception that it was not working properly and the workers did nothing to correct that perception. This is a customer service failure and huge irresponsibility on the part of the employee.

                                          Originally posted by Infernoman View Post
                                          we know they didn't irgnore her because the ride isn't fully automated. someone has to confirm if something is ok or not before pushing a button for dispatching or to hold and fix the issue.
                                          They may have confirmed at the final stop point before dispatch that everything was working, but that is also not the issue. The issue is that the first person she talked to ignored her concerns without even a, “don’t worry, that person over there will take care of you.” From her point of view there was not another stop point. It appeared to the rider that the sled was leaving the station to start the ride without her seatbelt being secured.

                                          Originally posted by Infernoman View Post
                                          it's not just the CMs on track but also the Control Tower CM is following things too and seeing if everything is ok. Perhaps the CMs down there could have been more attentive but to accuse them of failing in their safety job for a small lack of attention is a bit unfair especially when you have many CMs following what is going on.
                                          Unless that was communicated to the rider, there was no way she could have known this. Therefore by not communicating to the rider to address her safety concerns they are not meeting their primary job duty which is customer service.

                                          Originally posted by Infernoman View Post
                                          Your article is unfair to post as an example because you can still be perfect in everything you do but things small or big will happen. yes there was faulty work at hand but tell me what are the odds of death on a coaster?
                                          For Marcelo Torres, the odds were pretty high.

                                          Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
                                          Oh gosh! What an epiphany you gave me. YES! Inspecting safety bolts is EXACTLY like rushing over to coddle a panicked person having an issue with something that is about to be actually checked by another person who's job it is to check it. Yes, FIRE THEM ALL IMMEDIATELY. (/sarcasm) Also note I never said anything at all about not complaining to City Hall. If they feel it was such a trauma, they are welcome to do just that. I SPECIFICALLY stated I was talking about the calls to terminate the CM's employment and belittling the CMs due to this situation.
                                          First off, it would not be “rushing over to coddle a panicked person”. As I stated above, it would be as easy as saying, “don’t worry, that person over there will take care of you.”

                                          As far as comparing it to the Thunder Mountain incident, having a panicked person jump out of their seat prior while the sled is moving can be just as deadly as having the train roll over on someone.
                                          "Greetings, Starfighter! You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada."

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