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  • #81
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by Mojave View Post
    I'm not a lawyer, but isn't this related to "innocent until proven guilty"? Absence of "facts" that the CM did their job doesn't mean they were guilty of not doing it. Right?

    I also want to point out that the C in CM does not stand for "counselor".
    For there to be a lawsuit/case, there has to be damages. Now . . . there are sadly all sorts of ways that guests can get hurt in a theme park. You can get a broken bone, or you can be hanging upside for three hours on a ride that is broken. Certainly, the guest in question did not receive a physical injury, yet the fear of physical injury is in itself psychologically upsetting.

    So, you could say that damages occurred to the guest.

    If the guest was upset, or even very upset, should Disneyland have done something to compensate this guest? Or, looking at it from another viewpoint, should Disneyland have done something to prevent this guest's damages? If a guest has a legitimate concern about bodily harm on an attraction, should the CM take the time to answer the question, or temporarily stop the ride?

    A reasonable person would say, "yes".

    Does Disney give the CMs working the Matterhorn training on what to do if their flashlight spies an unbuckled seat belt? Of course. What about if a guest screams, "help! My seat belt is stuck!" One could reasonably conclude that this is just the sort of breakdown in safety that the CMs with flashlights are looking for, and they should have taken some sort of action which would include notifying somebody.

    Comment


    • #82
      Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

      Originally posted by chesirecat View Post
      Uh, an accident almost did occur, might have occured, had the OP not been able to unlock her seatbelt. Certainly, the CM could have alerted somebody down the line to the problem. Why check safety belts with a flashlight if the CM won't acknowledge/care about guests who are having problems?
      Um, no. The dispatch CM can tell which belts are buckled and which are not on his control panel. Had the OP still not had been able to get their belt on before dispatch the CM would have dealt with it. The OP says that the CM nodded to her once she finally got her belt on which indicated that he was fully aware of the situation and monitoring it. The bobsled can't leave the station unless all the seat belts are buckled. It is pretty over dramatic to say an accident "almost" occurred here.

      ---------- Post added 10-08-2012 at 07:10 PM ----------

      Originally posted by chesirecat View Post
      For there to be a lawsuit/case, there has to be damages. Now . . . there are sadly all sorts of ways that guests can get hurt in a theme park. You can get a broken bone, or you can be hanging upside for three hours on a ride that is broken. Certainly, the guest in question did not receive a physical injury, yet the fear of physical injury is in itself psychologically upsetting.

      So, you could say that damages occurred to the guest.

      If the guest was upset, or even very upset, should Disneyland have done something to compensate this guest? Or, looking at it from another viewpoint, should Disneyland have done something to prevent this guest's damages? If a guest has a legitimate concern about bodily harm on an attraction, should the CM take the time to answer the question, or temporarily stop the ride?

      A reasonable person would say, "yes".
      Are you seriously suggesting a person should be able to sue because they were upset?

      Comment


      • #83
        Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

        Originally posted by Mojave View Post
        If not getting your seatbelt clicked until the final safety check is considered an "almost accident", I bet they have "almost accidents" a thousand times a day.
        Really? Are you stating that the second check CMs are letting thousands of guests ride without seat belts buckled? Aren't the four CMs with flashlights in the best position to check this? If this is true, then I would conclude the second safety check folks aren't doing their job.

        Originally posted by Mojave View Post

        And since everybody is trying to claim "facts" in this case, what facts do we have that say the final CM wouldn't have stopped the ride if they hadn't seen that the OP had the seatbelt fastened and acknowledged that?
        I don't anybody notified the final CM that the OP was having a problem with her belt. He might have noticed the commotion with a screaming guest, but he could have gotten distracted. He nodded, but what he knew and when he knew it isn't known.

        Originally posted by Mojave View Post
        Also, why is it necessary to have a final seatbelt check if the first two CM stops are supposed to have checked them already? This is a rhetorical question.
        Yes it is. Your point?

        Because it is a rhetorical question, the answer should be obvious: redundancy of safety checks. It appears that one layer of safety failed . . . or at the very least, the CMs failed to address the guest's panic.

        ---------- Post added 10-09-2012 at 02:15 AM ----------

        Originally posted by clippers6 View Post
        Um, no. The dispatch CM can tell which belts are buckled and which are not on his control panel. Had the OP still not had been able to get their belt on before dispatch the CM would have dealt with it. The OP says that the CM nodded to her once she finally got her belt on which indicated that he was fully aware of the situation and monitoring it.
        You do realize that everything has a failure rate? This is why NASA builds redundancy into critical systems. The final CM's failure rate might be small, but it is real. An average CM might one in a hundred thousand times be distracted an not noticed an error message. Happens to even professional airplane pilots.

        Not sure what the nod was about. You are inferring communication between the four CMs with flashlights and the finale CM. Given how rude and uncommunicative the four CMs with flashlights were, I'm not convinced they passed along the message at all.

        ---------- Post added 10-09-2012 at 02:19 AM ----------

        Originally posted by clippers6 View Post
        Are you seriously suggesting a person should be able to sue because they were upset?
        Guests have filed lawsuits over psychological distress. In this case, the guest and a friend were upset, i.e. afraid they would ride the Matterhorn without a safety belt and they could be killed. If they believed this, then they could have momentarily experience a large amount of distress.

        Does this incident deserve a lawsuit?

        If the guest complained to City Hall would you as a guest relations CM done anything, i.e. a free return ticket?

        Guests who were unaware of "Gay Days" at Disneyland get a refunded ticket if this "upsets" them, (so they can return on another day), I would think that being afraid of being killed on the Matterhorn is more terrifying that being around openly LGBT people, and deserves at least a free day's admission and an apology. If the guest is an AP, then maybe a free meal or two.
        Last edited by chesirecat; 10-08-2012, 06:25 PM.

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        • #84
          Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

          Originally posted by chesirecat View Post
          You do realize that everything has a failure rate? This is why NASA builds redundancy into critical systems. The final CM's failure rate might be small, but it is real. An average CM might one in a hundred thousand times be distracted an not noticed an error message. Happens to even professional airplane pilots.

          Not sure what the nod was about. You are inferring communication between the four CMs with flashlights and the finale CM. Given how rude and uncommunicative the four CMs with flashlights were, I'm not convinced they passed along the message at all.
          There is plenty of redundancy. More often than not everyone is probably buckled in safely by the time they pass the first safety check CM. The OP said she and her friend didn't really panic until they reached the dispatch position. At dispatch the CM has the control panel with indicators and even if he someone did not notice one of the indicator lights were off, the system serves as the final fail safe as it will not let him dispatch. Everything worked as it was supposed to. Do you realize how much downtime there would be if they had to e-stop every time there was someone that couldn't get their seat belt on before the first safety check? That's why the dispatch CM and indicator system exists.

          Also, I have no idea where you got that there are 4 CMs with flashlights. Usually only the safety check CM would have one.

          ---------- Post added 10-08-2012 at 07:45 PM ----------

          Originally posted by chesirecat View Post
          Guests have filed lawsuits over psychological distress. In this case, the guest and a friend were upset, i.e. afraid they would ride the Matterhorn without a safety belt and they could be killed. If they believed this, then they could have momentarily experience a large amount of distress.

          Does this incident deserve a lawsuit?

          If the guest complained to City Hall would you as a guest relations CM done anything, i.e. a free return ticket?

          Guests who were unaware of "Gay Days" at Disneyland get a refunded ticket if this "upsets" them, (so they can return on another day), I would think that being afraid of being killed on the Matterhorn is more terrifying that being around openly LGBT people, and deserves at least a free day's admission and an apology. If the guest is an AP, then maybe a free meal or two.
          This is what's wrong with America.

          Comment


          • #85
            Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

            If a guest is panicked, they introduce a safety risk to themselves and the rest of the riders. As was stated above, a panicking rider could jump out of the sled prior to dispatch or injure another rider by flailing around. It is up to the CM to identify that a guest is having an emergency. If there is no emergency, a CM should certainly reassure the guest that things are okay.

            Looking at the added netting and bumpers on the Jungle Cruise thread, you can see why we shouldn't rush to judge the guest - or necessarily pile on a CM over one incident.

            In that case, there is the eventual admission that these measures were added after several incidents of guests being pinched or falling into the water or becoming caught between the boat and dock. Presumably, there are at least two CMs unloading a boat and one at the stern during this procedure. Still, there were accidents. And it was addressed.

            If these things aren't reported, they may not be investigated. As it is with commercial air travel, a sharp customer may just spot something that a harried flight crew could miss. And that may delay a flight, but it may also save hundreds of lives. Automated safety is a companion to the power of human observation. And even then, bad things can happen.

            I'm with the OP. Safety and guest comfort should never be shrugged-off by a Disney employee.
            ~ Erik

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            • #86
              Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

              Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
              She has a witness that can corroborate her facts. I have yet to see any posts that say that there is no way that the worker would not have told her that the seat belt situation will be resolved at the next station. That is a pretty strong case that her concerns were pretty much ignored.
              What 'witness'? BTW... My friend right now says I'm actually a Federal Judge. You should believe me, because I just said my friend here says so..

              Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
              We also have the fact that there was a witness to the lack of performance of the Disney worker. We also don't have any facts that say the workers did actually perform their job and reassure that rider that the seat belt situation would be taken care of.
              No we don't - because the people in this thread don't KNOW what the specific performance of those positions are. They PRESUME.

              Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
              Since I am trained in the field of law, I know that a plaintiff's testimony with the supporting testimony of a second witness is much more reliable than no evidence presented on the side of the defendant.
              No evidence presented by the defendant.. you mean the people not represented AT ALL in this thread? My god.. this is beyond comical. By creating a one-sided story, you argue it's more credible? I've had some wth moments before reading some of these threads of late.. but I don't think anyone can top that.

              ---------- Post added 10-08-2012 at 11:23 PM ----------

              Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
              I wasn't referring to what their actual roles were. Those are irrelevant in this situation
              No, they are everything in this situation when we are talking about ride safety and ride operation. Which apparently you thought was severe enough to suggest the CMs should be fired.

              Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
              What matters is how the rider perceived those roles which is a fact that was stated in the original post
              The riders PRESUMPTION of the different ride operator positions means nothing to the actual job definitions.

              You have to be in a personal injury practice...

              ---------- Post added 10-08-2012 at 11:29 PM ----------

              Originally posted by chesirecat View Post
              I answer my own question:

              The second checkpoint with the four CMs armed with flashlights are part of a redundant safety system. Should the guy at the end who dispatches the bobsled mess up, hopefully these upstanding young men and women armed with flashlights will have caught the problem as vice versa.

              It's called redundancy. In this case, one layer of redundancy failed. Should the OP not have fastened her seat belt, the last CM (let's say he a psycho who is disgruntled) could have dispatched the bobsled without a care in the world and the OP would ride Matterhorn without a safety belt.
              So chesirecat are you versed in the ride operations guide for the new Matterhorn? Are you trained to operate the attraction in all it's stations?

              If not, why are we acting like we know better than the people who actually are trained to run it.
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              • #87
                Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                Flynn, you're a nice (and fresh) voice of reason!

                :bow:

                Comment


                • #88
                  Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                  Originally posted by chesirecat View Post
                  Really? Are you stating that the second check CMs are letting thousands of guests ride without seat belts buckled? Aren't the four CMs with flashlights in the best position to check this? If this is true, then I would conclude the second safety check folks aren't doing their job.
                  I said a thousand, not "thousands" and, my fault, I didn't specify that I meant the entire resort, not just the Matterhorn. Still, I'll grant that might be a slight exaggeration. I am only going on personal experience. The point is that only having your seat belt finally clicked at the third checkpoint is not an "almost accident".

                  It's impossible to always have your seat belt clicked at the first check point. (based on riding the old cars - haven't ridden the new ones) The belt might be hanging over the side, be wet and it slips as you grab it; the belt might have been on a child and needs to be extended; the belt might be on the floor under your foot; the belt may be twisted; you may have to check on your younger sibling or child riding in their seat before you buckle in - any number of reasons why you wouldn't be buckled in by the first or second check point. This happens to me regularly when I only click in at the second checkpoint or between the second and third. I just don't panic like the OP did because I've ridden the Matterhorn a million times (exaggeration, sorry) and I know that everything is not dealt with at the first checkpoint.

                  Originally posted by chesirecat View Post
                  Because it is a rhetorical question, the answer should be obvious: redundancy of safety checks. It appears that one layer of safety failed . . . or at the very least, the CMs failed to address the guest's panic.
                  It's rhetorical because we are both arguing that redundancy is important. The reason I made the point is because you seem to be arguing that missing the first or second layer of checks is a failure of the system. I'm saying it isn't. I'm saying missing the first or second is not even a failure at those points. The system collectively must have all guests buckled in before dispatch, not have all guests buckled in at the first check point, then double and triple checked. It's only a failure if someone makes it through to launch without their seat belt buckled.

                  At each step, if a guest has crept through unbuckled, the system fixes that problem. This is different from redundancy with NASA or an airplane where an engine can go out and the craft keeps flying. That redundancy doesn't fix the broken engine (the seat belt), it makes sure the entire vehicle can continue without that engine (the seat belt). The Matterhorn redundancy is different. The problem must be fixed - the seat belt has to be buckled.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                    I would have been terrified if I'd had the OP's experience, but it sounds like the system worked correctly and she was never in real danger. Not knowing the whole situation, I can't tell whether the CMs were wrong or not--maybe they didn't have time to explain the system while performing their duties; maybe they couldn't hear or understand the OP and her friend; maybe there were so many of them there that they each assumed someone else would respond; maybe they're lazy; or maybe they're evil people who secretly delight in inducing panic attacks in Disney guests. Who knows?

                    The big question for me is whether there's a way to let all riders know the way the checkpoints are set up so they don't panic when they can't figure out their seatbelts and the ride moves past the first checkpoint(s). Maybe a sign or announcement at the beginning saying "Please buckle your seatbelt. The CM at the final checkpoint will assist you if you're unable to buckle it." And a big sign for Final Checkpoint.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                      Originally posted by clippers6 View Post
                      But anxiety is something that is very common. Just about everyday you'll see kids crying before a ride because they are scared. I've seen bawling children on rides ranging from Ghost Galaxy to Snow White. It's not something I'm super proud of, but I used to cry when Monstro would "eat" us on Storybook Land. There are also plenty of teens and adults that behave very anxiously before thrill rides. I don't think it would be realistic to ask Disney to make sure everyone is completely reassured before beginning a ride. In the Disney handbook SAFETY comes before COURTESY, SHOW, and EFFICIENCY.
                      There's a difference between a child crying because they are afraid of Monstro and an adult showing anxiety because the safety belt that is supposed to keep them in the ride doesn't seem to be working. If safety is supposed to come before anything else, it would seem even more imperative that a CM should be at least verbally addressing that.

                      And again, there were ways the CMs could have addressed it without leaving their positions. The loader can't leave their position. The guy walking past my sled with his flashlight is walking past the sled and looking at guests! He isn't "leaving his position" if he asks what is going on or verbally reassures a guest the situation will be sorted out.
                      Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

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                      • #91
                        Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                        Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
                        snip
                        Another poster summed up my reply to you good sir and I'm just going to say I respectfully disagree with your stance and I know very well already that we're going to keep talking in circles over this.

                        Originally posted by Malina View Post
                        There's a difference between a child crying because they are afraid of Monstro and an adult showing anxiety because the safety belt that is supposed to keep them in the ride doesn't seem to be working. If safety is supposed to come before anything else, it would seem even more imperative that a CM should be at least verbally addressing that.

                        And again, there were ways the CMs could have addressed it without leaving their positions. The loader can't leave their position. The guy walking past my sled with his flashlight is walking past the sled and looking at guests! He isn't "leaving his position" if he asks what is going on or verbally reassures a guest the situation will be sorted out.
                        But it WAS working because you did say in your first post that despite the "Jam" (which we all don't know if that happened because it's only YOUR word and we have no word from the CM's that night you were there) you still got it to work, you rode and got off and are here now still arguing about this. the CM's while are in their safty position cannot leave, they aren't LITERALLY glued to their spots. Do you know each position and what they do? You have only a guess based on the brief time you were there. We're going on you FEELINGS and your ASSUMPTIONS and that is why I didn't see an issue to begin with because they're how you felt, not the facts because NOBODY was there to witness a thing. Again I'm sorry you had a freak out but at the end of the day you're fine and nothing bad happened.

                        This matter is becoming a mounting out of molehill and it should have ended with the guest and the CM that night. Now it's becoming yet another excuse to rally against CMs who DO their job but just don't have the time to handle EVERY SINGLE LITTLE THING. we're all human right? Personally, this needs to be let go...

                        ...As I see it

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                          Infernoman: This matter is becoming a mounting out of molehill and it should have ended with the guest and the CM that night. Now it's becoming yet another excuse to rally against CMs who DO their job but just don't have the time to handle EVERY SINGLE LITTLE THING. we're all human right? Personally, this needs to be let go...

                          ...As I see it
                          :thumbup:

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                            Nothing malfunctioned and the cast members did what they were supposed to do. I'm not sure what the problem is...?

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                              Originally posted by OliviaVonDrake View Post
                              Nothing malfunctioned and the cast members did what they were supposed to do. I'm not sure what the problem is...?
                              The problem is that someone grossly overreacted to their unreasonable belief that there was a chance they would be dispatched with their safety restraint unsecured. This problem was exacerbated by their ridiculous assertion that a cast member in a loud, fast-paced, and important position should disregard everything and everyone else to address this absurd behavior knowing full well that in a matter of seconds the individual will realze that there was no problem. What would happen to Disneyland if each of 20000-50000 daily guests reacted this way towards what was essentially a non-issue? However, what is even more outlandish is the fact that not one but TWO individuals responded by calling for the termination of the cast members who had the misfortune of being present when the OP decided to ride the Matterhorn. One of these individuals even suggested that the OP could sue Disneyland as compensation for being upset. WOW. Calsig, your responses in this thread upset ME. Can I sue you? I think the next time the level headed people who have disagreed with the few extreme responses in this thread should make a pact for their next trip to Disneyland to personally thank each cast member they meet for their willingness and ability to deal with such absurd behavior and mindsets

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                HOLY GOD EVERYBODY NOTHING WENT WRONG. EVERY RIDE AT THE RESORT WITH BELTS HAS THIS PROCEDURE: NOT CHECKING BELTS IMMEDIATELY AFTER LOAD BUT INSTEAD CHECKING THEM AT DISPATCH (INDY, RSR, MATTERHORN).

                                Seriously what is going on.

                                All of this about failure rates is irrelevant. Nothing failed here. Everything could potentially fail at some point.

                                All of this about emotional distress and panic is irrelevant. There are countless rides at the resort that a rider could free themselves from and get hurt were they to panic... Splash, Silly Symphonies, Autopia etc. etc... but the point is that this doesn't put the onus of Disney. Countless times before it has been held that incidents like these are not the responsibility of the park. I could "think" my Autopia car is going to explode because it sounds a little weird, but that doesn't give me the right to run across the track. Personal responsibility doesn't evaporate due to irrational panic.

                                Others are right to point out that we only have one side of the story. And we will never get the CM side of it because they probably deal with this several times a day. It's okay to be nervous on a ride, but it is not the fault of anyone but that single person.
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                                • #96
                                  Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                  Originally posted by Oedipa Maas View Post
                                  The big question for me is whether there's a way to let all riders know the way the checkpoints are set up so they don't panic when they can't figure out their seatbelts and the ride moves past the first checkpoint(s). Maybe a sign or announcement at the beginning saying "Please buckle your seatbelt. The CM at the final checkpoint will assist you if you're unable to buckle it." And a big sign for Final Checkpoint.
                                  Yes, it's called the power of observation. I figured out the system by the third time I rode an attraction with that kind of restraint system. You can even see this system at work when you ride Star Tours as the readout board is in plain view and the CM checks it before securing the cabin. I understand a lot of folks don't pay attention to those kind of details when they are out and about, but that is one way to know how it works.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                    Originally posted by misfits138 View Post
                                    The problem is that someone grossly overreacted to their unreasonable belief that there was a chance they would be dispatched with their safety restraint unsecured. This problem was exacerbated by their ridiculous assertion that a cast member in a loud, fast-paced, and important position should disregard everything and everyone else to address this absurd behavior knowing full well that in a matter of seconds the individual will realze that there was no problem. What would happen to Disneyland if each of 20000-50000 daily guests reacted this way towards what was essentially a non-issue? However, what is even more outlandish is the fact that not one but TWO individuals responded by calling for the termination of the cast members who had the misfortune of being present when the OP decided to ride the Matterhorn. One of these individuals even suggested that the OP could sue Disneyland as compensation for being upset. WOW. Calsig, your responses in this thread upset ME. Can I sue you? I think the next time the level headed people who have disagreed with the few extreme responses in this thread should make a pact for their next trip to Disneyland to personally thank each cast member they meet for their willingness and ability to deal with such absurd behavior and mindsets
                                    Yes! Thank you!

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                      Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
                                      Yes, it's called the power of observation. I figured out the system by the third time I rode an attraction with that kind of restraint system. You can even see this system at work when you ride Star Tours as the readout board is in plain view and the CM checks it before securing the cabin. I understand a lot of folks don't pay attention to those kind of details when they are out and about, but that is one way to know how it works.
                                      True, that is one way, but I'm struggling to understand how one would use observation to figure out this system until they see someone having major trouble with their seatbelt be stopped and helped by dispatch. I'm sure that happens multiple times a day, but not often enough that everyone in the park will see it. Many people would observe the location with CMs shining flashlights on guests and reasonably--but wrongly--assume that is the final seatbelt check.

                                      If I were the OP, I would send Disney a brief note letting them know I'd been unnecessarily scared because I didn't understand the loading procedure, and I wish they would explain it better. I would not mention the CMs, because from comments here it appears they all did their jobs. If Disney gets enough similar notes, maybe they will put up signs or even change the duties of CMs at loading stations.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                        Originally posted by Mojave View Post
                                        I'm not a lawyer, but isn't this related to "innocent until proven guilty"?
                                        Originally posted by Mojave View Post
                                        Absence of "facts" that the CM did their job doesn't mean they were guilty of not doing it. Right?
                                        When there is a plaintiff and a witness that claim that they did not do their job, absence of proof to the contrary is enough to show that they did not.

                                        Again, the seatbelt worked and she was in no real danger. The problem is that no one let a rider who was expressing concern for their safety know that.

                                        Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                                        No we don't - because the people in this thread don't KNOW what the specific performance of those positions are. They PRESUME.
                                        Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                                        No evidence presented by the defendant.. you mean the people not represented AT ALL in this thread? My god.. this is beyond comical. By creating a one-sided story, you argue it's more credible? I've had some wth moments before reading some of these threads of late.. but I don't think anyone can top that.
                                        There are Disney employees that are members of this forum. Not one of them has provided any evidence that an employee of the company would not have let the rider panic under a belief that the ride would start without her restraint secured until she went to the next station without trying to reassure her that the belt would be fixed at the next checkpoint.

                                        Originally posted by flynnibus View Post
                                        The riders PRESUMPTION of the different ride operator positions means nothing to the actual job definitions.
                                        It does when she is voicing her safety concerns and those go unanswered.

                                        Originally posted by cruise View Post
                                        HOLY GOD EVERYBODY NOTHING WENT WRONG
                                        Originally posted by cruise View Post
                                        but the point is that this doesn't put the onus of Disney.
                                        So you feel it is ok for an employee to just ignore a guest who is expressing concerns about their safety restraint? Whether the concern was valid or not, if a rider is addressing a worker, it is just good customer service to answer them back.

                                        Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
                                        I figured out the system by the third time I rode an attraction with that kind of restraint system.
                                        What about those riders who are riding for their first or second time?
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                                        Comment


                                        • Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

                                          Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
                                          When there is a plaintiff and a witness that claim that they did not do their job, absence of proof to the contrary is enough to show that they did not.
                                          Yes, this is true, but it is also probably one of the worst arguments to make in an online forum. By this logic every one-sided story thread ever posted on this site should be taken on its face. Maybe you'd have some weight with this after a full investigation... but c'mon, after one 200 word post...

                                          Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
                                          It is not a presumption to say that the primary duty of any “on stage” worker at Disneyland is customer service. They are there to make park patrons safe and happy. By ignoring her concerns of safety, they failed.
                                          I'm going to go ahead and posit that the primary concern of a ride operator is safety. And it IS a presumption to assume that letting the ride coast to the next brake station is more dangerous than stopping the ride to concentrate on one guest while taking focus off of others in the load area. For all we know it may have been safer to have dealt with this situation at the belt check zone.

                                          Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
                                          Disney’s customer service went wrong.
                                          This is only true if "customer service goes wrong" every time a guest feels uncomfortable. Without an assessment f the reasonableness of the fear think makes little sense, and that requires a subjective judgement. Objectively the ride was dispatched safely.

                                          Originally posted by calsig31 View Post
                                          So you feel it is ok for an employee to just ignore a guest who is expressing concerns about their safety restraint? Whether the concern was valid or not, if a rider is addressing a worker, it is just good customer service to answer them back.
                                          Again, using the word "ignoring" is an example of you making your own judgement here. Was the CM following a protocol in allowing them to move to the next zone? Was the CM fully aware of the level of the guests concern? The OP talks a lot about yelling to the CM but not a lot about if they even turned around. Yes I am also making judgements here... but I am NOT coming to any conclusions about the process. Again, all we can say is that here, the system worked.

                                          My personal take here is that there are so many holes and inconsistencies in this original story that I am more inclined to the side of the CM who does this everyday than the rider who clearly was experiencing the ride for on of their first times.
                                          Disneyland Wooooh!

                                          "You see- Everybody's got a laughin' place, trouble is most folks won't take the time to go look for it."

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