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  • RegionsBeyond
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    A simple request from site staff: Whether or not you agree with there being a safety issue in a reported case, or the viewpoints of another member on an issue (which is part of a discussion forum, people having differing opinions), please merely keep in mind that mocking the thread or openly putting down the member themselves because you disagree with their take on an experience they had is not fair play or respectful/conducive to open discussion.

    Furthermore, the deliberate slams on someone stating their opinion done in a way suggesting they should not talk about a topic because you disagree with what they think about what happened to the extent of personal rudeness is not allowed by MiceChat rules, and the piling on of a person in this case trying to dissuade them from their experience or say they were wrong for concern in an increasingly personal 'put down' type of manner on the part of some is not constructive and not allowed at any time when done deliberately, especially to 'win' a perceived argument.
    This has only served to escalate this thread into a fight, frankly, and that serves no one on this forum well: members, casual readers who haven't joined, or staff.

    In the future, please think first not of 'how can I win this argument' in instances where you feel an issue is 'unimportant' or ways to shout down people in a personally confrontational manner over a experience they had. Discuss the issue, rather than the motives or how 'wrong' someone is, as that only increases hostility and ill will.

    Regretfully, at this time, these actions on both sides have caused this thread to be closed permanently. Staff does not relish doing so and we try hard to avoid outright locking threads whenever possible, but we sincerely hope some lessons might be learned from this statement and how this situation unfolded going forward.

    Leave a comment:


  • JMazz
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
    This whole thread could have been prevented by one CM listening to the guest and checking her seat belt.
    I am assuming, and correct me if I am wrong, that your post here is directedtowards/inspired by my comment above...

    It isn't that the thread needs preventing. *if* she got bad CS, well then so be it. It would be great to prevent it, it would be great to inform others of this so they can look out for it, etc. etc. It isn't that the thread needs to be prevented.

    It is the mindless and repetative drivel. The people involved said their peace over and over and then ppl got nasty. And it just isn't this thread. So many threads where someone will say the same freakin' thing over and over as if it will convince another person if they read it many times. It wont happen. It is MC after all; the most informative and unfortunately most headstrong Disney site on the web! And none of the arguers were noobies either.

    Come on people. My GP friends have stopped reading and this is the #1 reason.

    Leave a comment:


  • calsig31
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by paradesintherain View Post
    because i'm sure if malina did somehow get sent on the ride without her belt, she would have definitely stood up at the top of a drop, rather than hanging on as tight as she could.
    Dolly didn't stand up either.
    Ocala Star-Banner - Google News Archive Search

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  • paradesintherain
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    because i'm sure if malina did somehow get sent on the ride without her belt, she would have definitely stood up at the top of a drop, rather than hanging on as tight as she could.

    Leave a comment:


  • calsig31
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    You're missing the point:
    Exactly. How a rider's belt becomes unbuckled is irrelevant. That post was illustrating what the consequences of riding without a restraint could be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Wiggins
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by paradesintherain View Post
    well that first example is extremely unfair. the kid unbuckled his seatbelt and tried to stand!
    You're missing the point:

    Originally posted by Malina View Post
    ....my belt wasn't working even at the point where they were checking with flashlights to ensure we were all buckled up--and if the seat belts aren't designed to release until the last checkpoint they should let people know so they won't freak out. I've read how Dolly's Drop got its name, so the prospect of being on that ride without a seat belt probably did make me panic.

    Leave a comment:


  • paradesintherain
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    well that first example is extremely unfair. the kid unbuckled his seatbelt and tried to stand!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Shrinker
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    It has not loops....unless you weight less then 50 pounds and are not holding to the hand rails...or holding the seat belt you will not fall out that ride
    Originally posted by snopes.com
    • May 1964: Mark Maples, a 15-year-old Long Beach, CA, resident, was killed when he tried to stand up on the Matterhorn Bobsleds. Maples (or his companion) foolishly unbuckled his seatbeat and attempted to stand up as their bobsled neared the peak of the mountain. Maples lost his balance and was thrown from the sled to the track below, fracturing his skull and ribs and causing internal injuries. He died three days later.

    Originally posted by snopes.com
    • 3 January 1984: Dolly Regene Young, a 48-year-old Fremont, CA, resident, was killed on the Matterhorn in an incident remarkably similar to the first Disneyland guest death nearly twenty years earlier. About two-thirds of the way down the mountain Young was thrown from her seat into the path of an oncoming bobsled, her head and chest becoming pinned beneath its wheels. An examination of Young's sled revealed that her seatbelt was not fastened at the time of the accident, but because she was riding alone in the rear car of a sled no one could determine whether or not she had deliberately unfastened her belt.


    Try again!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr Wiggins
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
    This whole thread could have been prevented by one CM listening to the guest and checking her seat belt.
    Bingo.

    Leave a comment:


  • calsig31
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by Bob Weaver View Post
    This whole thread could have been prevented by one CM listening to the guest and checking her seat belt.
    Exactly!

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Weaver
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    This whole thread could have been prevented by one CM listening to the guest and checking her seat belt.

    Leave a comment:


  • calsig31
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by redberon View Post
    And it may have been out of the question without sacrificing safety, so what's the problem?
    Maybe for one worker to answer, yes. However the original post stated that there were 4 people checking belts. One of them could have answered.

    Originally posted by redberon View Post
    I'm not saying this to be rude, but it's obvious to me that not only is her understanding of a rides operation lacking, but yours is as well. You can't become an expert in riding a bike by simply watching others ride bikes.
    If it appears that a rider who has admitted to being on the ride on numerous occasion didn’t have knowledge of the ride imagine how a first time rider would have felt in that situation. That is all the more reason for the workers not to ignore a safety concern.

    Originally posted by redberon View Post
    And the deal is you don't have to be an expert, The people doing it are. I'd hope you don't think every guest can be reassured of their safety in all their situations, because Signs won't do it. A CM verbally acknowledging you could put a guest/cm in the hospital if done at the wrong time. There's no sign or spiel that can prepare you as well as simply observing, and most guests foreign and local do just that.
    She did observe. She observed her seatbelt wasn’t working. She let the worker know that just as she was supposed to do. The workers did not acknowledge her concerns. That is a large failure.

    Originally posted by clippers6 View Post
    You just have to accept that sometimes things don't go 100% smoothly, but that systems are in place, systems that you may not even be aware of, to keep you safe. When I'm on a flight with bad turbulence I don't expect the flight crew to come comfort me. I'd rather the pilots focus on flying the plane and the flight attendants strap themselves in for their own safety.
    However if you saw the stewardesses and other passengers strapping themselves in and your belt didn’t work wouldn’t you expect one of the flight crew to assist you?

    Leave a comment:


  • OliviaVonDrake
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by Malina View Post
    Thanks, JMazz. At this point, I think the thread should be locked, if people are going to get nasty...
    In your original post you shared your experience and then asked if it was what should have happened. It seemed to be a genuine question. Many came forward and answered that, yes, it was perfectly normal and shouldn't be a worry. For some reason you then began to argue with those who had answered your question. What was it, exactly, that you were looking for when you started this thread?

    Leave a comment:


  • Malina
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by JMazz View Post
    As a lead health & safety compliance officer that is in no way associated w/ Disney and after reading from page 1 - 6, I can really see why (not for the first time, mind you) I am called into court to testify on occasion.

    This is the very ugly side of MC. This has been happening more and more. An increase all summer, in fact. It makes us look bad. Quick Reminder: the GP (general population) looks to us for answers. When they come across a page like this, it really becomes off-putting to them.

    Malina, your OP was valid. You wanted to ask a question and it was answered...
    ...and answered ...and answered ...and answered... I'm done w/ this one. Thx for the unsolicited drama.

    To some of the MCers here, please know that you will probably NEVER convince the other POV that you are "correct", esp. after ten pages. Will someone please just call someone else a freakin' name and get this thread sent to the litter bin? Jeeze.

    ---------- Post added 10-10-2012 at 03:54 AM ----------




    This one was a doozie for sure. And you would never know it based on the OP.
    Thanks, JMazz. At this point, I think the thread should be locked, if people are going to get nasty...

    Leave a comment:


  • JMazz
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    As a lead health & safety compliance officer that is in no way associated w/ Disney and after reading from page 1 - 6, I can really see why (not for the first time, mind you) I am called into court to testify on occasion.

    This is the very ugly side of MC. This has been happening more and more. An increase all summer, in fact. It makes us look bad. Quick Reminder: the GP (general population) looks to us for answers. When they come across a page like this, it really becomes off-putting to them.

    Malina, your OP was valid. You wanted to ask a question and it was answered...
    ...and answered ...and answered ...and answered... I'm done w/ this one. Thx for the unsolicited drama.

    To some of the MCers here, please know that you will probably NEVER convince the other POV that you are "correct", esp. after ten pages. Will someone please just call someone else a freakin' name and get this thread sent to the litter bin? Jeeze.

    ---------- Post added 10-10-2012 at 03:54 AM ----------

    Originally posted by Goofy Daddy View Post
    Epic....

    This one was a doozie for sure. And you would never know it based on the OP.

    Leave a comment:


  • Goofy Daddy
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    It's hilarious that this thread went from "they ignored me" to "they should be fired!!" to "they are doing it on purpose because they lost their Christmas party."

    Epic...all on the word of one person who admits they were in a state of panic which means her perspective and frame of mind are skewed at best. I am sure our attorney friend will have a reply to this but I wont bother coming back to see it, I am so done with this joke of a situation. He can always neg me again, oh the pain.

    Leave a comment:


  • Malina
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by clippers6 View Post
    You just have to accept that sometimes things don't go 100% smoothly, but that systems are in place, systems that you may not even be aware of, to keep you safe. When I'm on a flight with bad turbulence I don't expect the flight crew to come comfort me. I'd rather the pilots focus on flying the plane and the flight attendants strap themselves in for their own safety.
    No system is infallible. If something is amiss, it's better to err on the side of caution and address it.

    On that plane, if you saw something amiss, that you don't normally see--for instance, your seat was unhinged, like the ones on the American Airlines plane, or the person across from you had passed out--I am sure you'd press the call button or inform the flight crew about it. I'm sure you'd also expect them to answer your call when they could, instead of saying "oh, we get people who are upset about turbulence all the time. We don't need to acknowledge that." If the flight attendant walked right past you and did not acknowledge your request, you'd feel slighted and feel that she was not properly looking after you.

    I never asked to be comforted on the ride; I never asked for someone to leave their post or endanger other riders. I was asking for the CMs who were standing there, focusing on the people in my sled, to offer some sort of verbal reassurance instead of ignoring me. If you're standing there with a flashlight and shining light on each row, you have time to say something.

    On Haunted Mansion, there's a part in the spiel where they reassure the guest that the safety bar will come down, and tell the guest that they don't need to pull on it. People get worried when the safety equipment appears not to work, and that is legitimate.

    We can keep going round in circles, I guess. it comes back to these four basic points for me:

    a. When a CM is in a role that requires them to interact directly with guests--such as the flashlight worker--it is poor customer service to ignore a direct question from a guest. It's even poorer customer service to ignore a guest who is clearly panicking and voicing a concern.

    b. By ignoring guests and automatically assuming that the concerns are not valid, CMs might miss out on something they really need to know about. If 99% of people cry wolf, it doesn't mean that 1% doesn't need to be helped. Obviously, that 1% was not me this time, as the CMs here have noted. What about next time, when the computer says that a belt is locked--and it's not--or there's something else that the CMs really need to watch, and they ignore it, and someone gets injured as a result?

    c. The guests are not aware of the systems, and depend on the CMs or the recorded spiels to clue them in.

    d. If the situation at the Matterhorn is such that the flashlight CM, etc. are too busy during normal operation to say two words to a guest, it's a problem. If the new sleds have seat belts that are confounding even 2% of guests, it's also a problem.

    I'm surprised by how acrimonious this thread has been. That wasn't my intention. I would hope we could be critical and disagree without slamming each other...
    Last edited by Malina; 10-10-2012, 02:47 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • clippers6
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    Originally posted by Malina View Post
    I didn't say I was an expert in ride OPERATIONS. I said I'd been on the Matterhorn and other rides at Disneyland enough AS A GUEST to know the way I was normally loaded into a ride vehicle and secured my belt. That's what cheshirecat said as well. It wasn't my first time on a roller coaster. That's the point. if someone's on a ride for the first time they might not know what to do. If they've been on a ride 100 times and the 101st time, things are different, that's not the same.

    I never said I was an expert at ride ops from the CM side of things. The point is that I shouldn't have to be, as a guest, to feel reassured that things are in order.
    You just have to accept that sometimes things don't go 100% smoothly, but that systems are in place, systems that you may not even be aware of, to keep you safe. When I'm on a flight with bad turbulence I don't expect the flight crew to come comfort me. I'd rather the pilots focus on flying the plane and the flight attendants strap themselves in for their own safety.

    Leave a comment:


  • drgonzo
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    I think I'm getting motion sickness from watching this topic go in circles.

    Leave a comment:


  • redberon
    replied
    Re: Scary Matterhorn experience

    And the deal is you don't have to be an expert, The people doing it are. I'd hope you don't think every guest can be reassured of their safety in all their situations, because Signs won't do it. A CM verbally acknowledging you could put a guest/cm in the hospital if done at the wrong time. There's no sign or spiel that can prepare you as well as simply observing, and most guests foreign and local do just that.

    Leave a comment:

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