Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

Collapse

Get Away Today

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • DJS
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Tomorrowland67 View Post
    The simple truth is that a visit to Disneyland is an entertainment luxury. DL executives realize they can charge a premium price for this entertainment luxury, and still find customers willing to pay. I wouldn't be surprised to see several more price increases before there is even a remote chance that DL attendance would start to drop.

    And even a drop in attendance might not necessarily mean lower profits. I'm sure the DL executives prefer to attract guests who spend more money per visit.
    If the demand is high, they can charge anything they want.:thumbup:

    Leave a comment:


  • Tomorrowland67
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    The simple truth is that a visit to Disneyland is an entertainment luxury. DL executives realize they can charge a premium price for this entertainment luxury, and still find customers willing to pay. I wouldn't be surprised to see several more price increases before there is even a remote chance that DL attendance would start to drop.

    And even a drop in attendance might not necessarily mean lower profits. I'm sure the DL executives prefer to attract guests who spend more money per visit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve DeGaetano
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Retrocool View Post
    See, Steve, your "it's capitalism" argument, combined with the "because they can" excuse, just isn't holding water. I don't have a problem with them charging a ticket price, and occasionally having to increase it based upon their operating costs, or inflation. Those things happen, and they're reasonable, and to be expected. But doubling it within a 3 year period just "because they can"? And especially during a major recession? I'm sorry, but that's horsetwaddle. That's just plain greed, man! They don't need to increase prices! They choose to! And you're saying that it's visitors' fault that Disney is jacking up its prices?
    This may be the single greatest piece of surrealist writing I've ever read here. Please tell us how you came to the conclusion that they don't "need" to raise prices. Also, please tell us why they simply cannot raise prices any time they choose. And please tell us with particularity why they cannot raise prices solely based on greed. Last I looked it up, greed in and of itself isn't a crime.

    The concept is so simple that anyone with half a brain should be able to understand it, and it really is shocking that some people don't get it: Disneyland can raise prices any time they wish. NO ONE is compelled to go to Disneyland. Disneyland isn't a monopoly the same way McDonalds isn't a monopoly. After all, you can only get a McRib or a Big Mac there, right? NO ONE has to go to the Park for any reason. Their prices aren't in any way comparable to highway robbery, and to suggest as much is just about the most illogical argument I've ever read.

    And if there is a population that is willing, even happy to continue to pay what Disney charges, why in the world would they not continue to charge those prices? Or raise them? Once the prices reach the point that Disney starts losing enough customers that they see revenue decrease, you may see ticket prices decrease.

    So yes--the customers' continued willingness to pay what YOU see as exhorbitant prices more than justifies Disney's tendancy to increase prices.

    The Rolex analogy is spot on. Rolex holds the "monopoly" on Rolex watches, right? I mean, sure, there are other watches, but if I want to buy a Rolex, I'll be "forced" to pay what amunts to highway robbery! I mean, the Rolex GMT ICE sells for $485,000.00!! Surely that is WAY more than the cost of materials! I think that's just greed, man!

    Again, you are not entitled to go to Disneyland. You are not entitled to pay what YOU think is a reasonable fee. Disneyland is a PRIVILEGE. And it is priced accordingly.
    Last edited by Steve DeGaetano; 11-29-2012, 05:53 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • frollofan
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    I am giving up my AP when it expires in December. But just because I will not have an AP certainly does not mean I hate Disney or anything. In fact, I will still go on MiceChat and obsess over Disney related stuff with you guys, and hopefully apply for a summer job at Disneyland in the coming years. However, I do think that Disney should really figure out their AP/crowding situation by maybe eliminating Southern California passes entirely, or perhaps making day passes more affordable, so more people do not feel the urge to get an annual pass.

    Leave a comment:


  • DJS
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Meville View Post
    One could argue that with the addition of the Hotel, Disneyland was very much intended to be a resort, in the sense that it was not just marketed to day trippers.

    And the hotels offer discounts for AP's also. Which can be translated into, we value our AP consumers.

    Leave a comment:


  • DownwiththeTide
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Retrocool View Post
    Right, and jacking up ticket prices just because you can isn't ridiculous.
    No, It isn't ridiculous, it's business. Disneyland is a luxury that is completely unnecessary for human survival. They can and will charge whatever they want, and customers can choose to pay, or not. When being robbed you have no choice in the matter and it's usually a horrible and sometimes violent experience, so comparing Disneyland to robbery is ridiculous.

    Leave a comment:


  • Meville
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Retrocool View Post
    I think this is more than a fair statement. I'm pretty sure it was NEVER designed as a "drop in place." By the same token, I also don't think it was designed as a "resort." WDW was, but Disneyland wasn't, and I think Disneyland needs to return to being a non-resort theme park.
    One could argue that with the addition of the Hotel, Disneyland was very much intended to be a resort, in the sense that it was not just marketed to day trippers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Retrocool
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Editing your argument from highway robbery to price gouging of necessities is not much better. You need water, and fuel, to survive. Disneyland is a LUXURY ITEM, and is priced as such.

    Not everyone can afford a Rolex. That doesn't mean Rolex is robbing them, or really depriving them of anything. And if you really, really want a Rolex, you can save up for one.

    Man, the entitlement attitude is pervasive here!
    OK, maybe not the greatest comparison in the world, but whenever a monopoly situation presents itself, vendors can either choose to do right by their customers, or they can choose to gouge them, whether it's selling gas & water after a hurricane or being the only theme park of its kind in the world.

    I think you're misunderstanding where I'm coming from here, Steve. It's not so much a sense of entitlement as it is a sense of justice.

    I don't know that I'd compare Disneyland to Rolex, exactly. I don't consider Disneyland to be THAT much of a luxury, at least it wasn't as I was growing up locally in Orange County (and my family was very much a one-income, working class family). It was a luxury, but not an insanely expensive one. (I consider WDW to be the greater luxury, to be honest.) That's why it was a once-, maybe twice-a-year treat, and some years we wouldn't go at all. So I have no problem at all with the idea of saving up for a trip. What I have a problem with is the length of time that I have to save up for that trip, compared to what I used to have to save up for that trip. Today, I have to save up a lot longer than I used to, because it takes a lot more than it used to just to get in the gate.

    You don't understand that that's aggravating, irritating, and annoying?

    ---------- Post added 11-28-2012 at 04:35 PM ----------

    Originally posted by MrHatboxGhost View Post
    Like stated before, Disneyland is a luxury item. I go nearly every other weekend because it's become part of my normal recreation. However, I think it's crazy to say Disney is robbing you. You aren't forced to go to Disneyland, you choose to go. Therefore you willingly spend ridiculous amounts of money.

    As hurt as you may be, Disney is a company, aptly in it's name "The Walt Disney Company", they live off of money. Truly, stop going to Disneyland if you feel it's "highway robbery." Who cares if Disney raises prices, it's part of the game -- you don't have to go.
    You haven't really read anything I've said, have you? Go back and read what I said.

    OK, maybe that's too hard a request. Here, I'll make it easy.

    1. I don't live in Southern California.
    2. I don't regularly visit Disneyland.
    3. I last visited Disneyland 7 years ago (2005).
    4. I've never owned an Annual Pass.
    5. I grew up in Southern California, going to Disneyland once or twice a year, if at all. I agree that it is and always has been a luxury, but it was an affordable luxury when I was growing up. I can't describe it that way today.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrHatboxGhost
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Like stated before, Disneyland is a luxury item. I go nearly every other weekend because it's become part of my normal recreation. However, I think it's crazy to say Disney is robbing you. You aren't forced to go to Disneyland, you choose to go. Therefore you willingly spend ridiculous amounts of money.

    As hurt as you may be, Disney is a company, aptly in it's name "The Walt Disney Company", they live off of money. Truly, stop going to Disneyland if you feel it's "highway robbery." Who cares if Disney raises prices, it's part of the game -- you don't have to go.

    Leave a comment:


  • Retrocool
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Are you really comparing customers who VOLUNTARILY GIVE MONEY to Disneyland OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL to people who get robbed?? Really??
    To highway robbery, yeah, I am. Because if there's only one path, and you have to take it, to be forced to pay an exorbitant fee to pass is a form of robbery. Not a small fee or a reasonable fee, but an exorbitant one.

    See, Steve, your "it's capitalism" argument, combined with the "because they can" excuse, just isn't holding water. I don't have a problem with them charging a ticket price, and occasionally having to increase it based upon their operating costs, or inflation. Those things happen, and they're reasonable, and to be expected. But doubling it within a 3 year period just "because they can"? And especially during a major recession? I'm sorry, but that's horsetwaddle. That's just plain greed, man! They don't need to increase prices! They choose to! And you're saying that it's visitors' fault that Disney is jacking up its prices?

    Do you actually still WONDER why there's an ever-increasing anti-Disney attitude out there these days?

    Stuff like this is why. And yes, there are actually plenty of people staying away, who might otherwise visit. Do the numbers have to drop drastically before somebody in Burbank finally gets it?

    Now the key thing here is this: now that the AP prices have gone up dramatically, will single-day/single-park and multi-day/multi-park ticket prices come down (and will there be a return of the local SoCal discount) as a result? If so, then I could probably get behind it. If not....then what I said stands. I don't believe in the Gordon Gekko mantra. Greed is NOT good.

    Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    The Disney Company could to this any time they wished, and would only need to justify it to their shareholders. It's that simple. And if there came a time when that would be considered to be a financially wise decision, there would be nothing you or I could do about it. This is PRIVATE LAND owned by a publicly-traded company, and they don't have to answer to you or I or anyone who isn't a shareholder, no matter how beleoved the Park is.
    I know this. But that still wouldn't justify it. Disneyland is a major American cultural icon. It's not just what you've described. Now, if you honestly believe that American culture is so easily bought, sold, folded, spindled, and mutilated, if American culture can so easily be thrown away and justified with a flippant remark, then I guess American culture really isn't too valuable, is it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve DeGaetano
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Retrocool View Post
    I know you know the term "highway robbery," Steve. Blaming park visitors for Disney's choosing to jack up their ticket prices is much like blaming thirsty people along the Gulf Coast for vendors jacking up the price of a bottle of water to $10.00 and gas to $6.00 a gallon after Hurricane Katrina.
    Editing your argument from highway robbery to price gouging of necessities is not much better. You need water, and fuel, to survive. Disneyland is a LUXURY ITEM, and is priced as such.

    Not everyone can afford a Rolex. That doesn't mean Rolex is robbing them, or really depriving them of anything. And if you really, really want a Rolex, you can save up for one.

    Man, the entitlement attitude is pervasive here!

    Leave a comment:


  • explodingboy
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Retrocool View Post
    "Because they can" could also justify a complete and total demolishing of the entire park and a sale of the land to some other company or private individual, but would that justify it as well? Hardly.
    Wait what?

    Leave a comment:


  • Retrocool
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Meville View Post
    Maybe Disneyland was never meant to be a drop in place.
    I think this is more than a fair statement. I'm pretty sure it was NEVER designed as a "drop in place." By the same token, I also don't think it was designed as a "resort." WDW was, but Disneyland wasn't, and I think Disneyland needs to return to being a non-resort theme park.

    You have to remember who's running things now, and who started this thing going. Walt didn't come from some upper crust, privileged background. He came from humble Midwestern beginnings, and wasn't a wealthy man until later in life. Eisner, Katzenberg, Iger, and those guys? They all came from upper crust, privileged backgrounds back East. They grew up well-to-do. They never knew deprivation, or not being able to afford things. Walt did, and he understood what it meant. That's why Disneyland operated the way it did for so many years. And I think if we return to that, to a simpler, humbler approach, if it's at least an option for Park guests, then some of the real magic that Disneyland once had but has lost in the last 30 years will be revived. And that's important.

    ---------- Post added 11-28-2012 at 03:33 PM ----------

    Originally posted by DownwiththeTide View Post
    Disneyland is not a necessity, and comparing it to robbery is just ridiculous.
    Right, and jacking up ticket prices just because you can isn't ridiculous.

    Leave a comment:


  • DownwiththeTide
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Retrocool View Post
    I know you know the term "highway robbery," Steve. Blaming park visitors for Disney's choosing to jack up their ticket prices is much like blaming thirsty people along the Gulf Coast for vendors jacking up the price of a bottle of water to $10.00 and gas to $6.00 a gallon after Hurricane Katrina.
    Disneyland is not a necessity, and comparing it to robbery is just ridiculous.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve DeGaetano
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Are you really comparing customers who VOLUNTARILY GIVE MONEY to Disneyland OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL to people who get robbed?? Really??

    "Because they can" could also justify a complete and total demolishing of the entire park and a sale of the land to some other company or private individual, but would that justify it as well? Hardly.
    The Disney Company could to this any time they wished, and would only need to justify it to their shareholders. It's that simple. And if there came a time when that would be considered to be a financially wise decision, there would be nothing you or I could do about it. This is PRIVATE LAND owned by a publicly-traded company, and they don't have to answer to you or I or anyone who isn't a shareholder, no matter how beleoved the Park is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Retrocool
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    People are pointing their fingers in the wrong direction. The only reason they "choose" to raise prices is because they can. Most guests continue to pay. It's called Capitalism. And if you want to place blame for prices increases, we would all do well to look in the mirror.
    Well, for one, like I said, I haven't been there in 7 years now, so it's not like I'm personally continuing to pay the increasing ticket prices, but Steve, this argument is akin to blaming the robbery victim for the robbery. I agree that, yes, of course, Disney raises ticket prices because they can. That much is obvious. There's only one Disneyland, so they have a monopoly on the market of Disneylands. If people want to go to Disneyland, do they really have a choice in the matter? No, not really. Sure, they can choose to spend their entertainment dollars elsewhere, and many do, but there's no competing Disneyland out there made by some other company that is truly in direct competition with Disneyland, now is there? Theme parks, amusement parks, sure, of course. But that's apples to oranges. Close, but no cigar. "Because they can" still doesn't justify the raising of ticket prices. "Because they can" could also justify a complete and total demolishing of the entire park and a sale of the land to some other company or private individual, but would that justify it as well? Hardly.

    I know you know the term "highway robbery," Steve. Blaming park visitors for Disney's choosing to jack up their ticket prices is much like blaming thirsty people along the Gulf Coast for vendors jacking up the price of a bottle of water to $10.00 and gas to $6.00 a gallon after Hurricane Katrina.

    Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    If revenues start declining, you may see prices decline as well. I don't see that happening until more and more people start taking the OP's approach.
    Maybe so. I'd venture to say that if they did away with full park passes and went back to ticket books and individual attraction tickets purchasable at ticket booths in each land (or at least made that an option), we'd see not only prices come down but they'd see revenues and profitability increasing.

    And they should start selling Walt's Chili and Crackers at the park, too. Because fine dining is nice and all, but there's nothing like good ol' inexpensive comfort food.

    Leave a comment:


  • Meville
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by fifthrider View Post
    I'm not sure where this came from. I wasn't saying I didn't love Disneyland and wouldn't always, only that I see where the original poster is coming from. If you don't get why people don't like not being able to afford the substantial increase on an AP then let me answer that. Because it's a customer-unfriendly business move that makes loyal customers feel excluded.

    Perhaps I miss read your OP


    Originally posted by fifthrider View Post
    Let's face it, Disney is losing annual passholders with this latest move and they LOVE it. They're getting more money from those who stayed on and trimming the herd down. They don't see it as a loss, for them it's a fiscal success. The residual effect of their decision is an embittered collection of loyal fans with a pretty well deserved case of WTF?! I have some real mixed feelings about this. It's one more way the magic turns tragic to me.

    I guess your use of the term embittered threw me off. I would think an embittered person, like the OP, has decided to never go back to DL again. Maybe I'm wrong and if I put words in your mouth, I'm sorry.

    Because it's bringing in a comparable level of revenue while thinning out how many people are in the park. If you had a restaurant with room for 100 people and the average meal was $12.50, you'd make just as much if you only had 50 people but at $25 per person. The difference ( in this simplistic explanation ) is that you need less resources to accomplish the same financial goal. By raising AP prices and losing a slice of that pie, Disney culls some of the people who come to the park on a regular basis ( and that thins a park out a lot more than outpricing the occasional visitor ) but retains the level of income being aimed for. It's a great gimmick to respond to complains of crowding at the expense of some hurt former APers.

    As stated earlier by another poster, it's called capitalism, pure and simple.

    Leave a comment:


  • GraceLovesGoofy
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by Jayce View Post
    They're not trying to kill the AP crowd by that much, if they were they'd simply get rid of the infernal payment plan. That would be the biggest drop because people still don't know how to save up for something but they sure know how to charge it (either to cc or bank card).



    Man, ain't that the truth!

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve DeGaetano
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    Originally posted by fifthrider View Post
    Steve mentioned earlier "Why don't you just go once a year?" but that's one man's advice based on how he likes to see the park. It's not really up to us to dictate how often someone else goes.
    Asking "Why?" is most certainly not "dictating."

    Leave a comment:


  • fifthrider
    replied
    Re: A Fond Farewell to the House of the Mouse...

    I'm not sure where this came from. I wasn't saying I didn't love Disneyland and wouldn't always, only that I see where the original poster is coming from. If you don't get why people don't like not being able to afford the substantial increase on an AP then let me answer that. Because it's a customer-unfriendly business move that makes loyal customers feel excluded.


    Originally posted by DJS View Post
    How is it that they LOVE losing customers?
    Because it's bringing in a comparable level of revenue while thinning out how many people are in the park. If you had a restaurant with room for 100 people and the average meal was $12.50, you'd make just as much if you only had 50 people but at $25 per person. The difference ( in this simplistic explanation ) is that you need less resources to accomplish the same financial goal. By raising AP prices and losing a slice of that pie, Disney culls some of the people who come to the park on a regular basis ( and that thins a park out a lot more than outpricing the occasional visitor ) but retains the level of income being aimed for. It's a great gimmick to respond to complains of crowding at the expense of some hurt former APers.

    As stated earlier by another poster, it's called capitalism, pure and simple.


    Steve mentioned earlier "Why don't you just go once a year?" but that's one man's advice based on how he likes to see the park. It's not really up to us to dictate how often someone else goes. If some here can't see it through the eyes of an outpriced AP'er then so be it. I think I can see where he's coming from.

    Leave a comment:

Get Away Today Footer

Collapse
Working...
X