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  • [Question] the actual thing or just a fake?

    I was gonna bid on this on ebay. Do you think Im bidding into a trap?

    Invitational Press Preview Ticket for Disneyland Anaheim Calif July 17 1955 | eBay

  • #2
    Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

    The seller has 0 feedback. I'd avoid it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

      Be extremely careful. The condition is remarkable for 1955.
      DisneyTwins
      Since May 2003

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

        Originally posted by OfficeDepot14 View Post
        I was gonna bid on this on ebay. Do you think Im bidding into a trap?

        Invitational Press Preview Ticket for Disneyland Anaheim Calif July 17 1955 | eBay
        Guaranteed Fake.

        If you want to check it out with an authoritative source, contact vintagedisneylandtickets.

        (And for the future, no one should ever bid on these kinds of items on ebay unless they're offered by a known & recommended Disneyana collector.)
        "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
        it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
        together with every variety of recreation and fun,
        designed to appeal to everyone."

        - Walt Disney

        "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
        - Michael Eisner

        "It's very symbiotic."
        - Bob Chapek

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

          I have three originals. Looks good, but be careful anyway. Follow Wiggins above, and see what it's made of. Not much description from what I can tell. The price seems high.

          Don't let condition fool you. Mine are mint, and came from a reputable source (the original owner-a well known Disney employee). So nice ones do show up. See if you can get the history.
          Last edited by Steve DeGaetano; 12-19-2012, 06:31 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

            From Vintage Disneyland Tickets
            Wednesday, February 13, 2008

            1955 Disneyland Green Press Preview Ticket - Or "Ebay Madness"



            Just when you thought you’ve seen everything, here is an amazing EBay auction.

            I’ve seen these “Press Preview” tickets before, but never the green one. The silver ones does go for a few hundred bucks, hence the reason I don’t have one!

            The auction description claims this to be the “Holy Grails of Disneyland Ticket Collectors” – Well, at least from my perspective, it’s not that fantastic. Jed over at Vintage Disneyland Goodies has posted ticket items that I feel are more desirable (to me at least).

            Here is the listing, starts at $895, buy-it-now for on $1000.(EBay Link)







            Here is a copy of the “Silver” ticket (Thanks Keeline.com). Is it just me or do these seem easy to duplicate? I have heard stories of all the counterfeit passes made for 7/17/55. This auction looks like the real thing, but a grand? Come on… Do you think it will sell??



            If you have one of these (Silver, green or Gold) could you email a scan of it when you have a change?????? (mailto:[email protected]).

            See you tomorrow
            Be Cool Stay in School!
            Next year I'm trying for a summer internship at Stark Industries.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

              Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
              I have three originals. Looks good, but be careful anyway. Follow Wiggins above, and see what it's made of. Not much description from what I can tell. The price seems high.

              Don't let condition fool you. Mine are mint, and came from a reputable source (the original owner-a well known Disney employee). So nice ones do show up. See if you can get the history.
              How many of them are there floating around I wonder?
              I open a toy, review it and take mediocore pictures. Read all about it HERE!

              Originally posted by VintageMouse;n8463446

              You know best :-)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                Originally posted by Meville View Post
                How many of them are there floating around I wonder?
                Exactly. Given what is possible to reproduce these days with CS6, a suite of plugins and a good photo printer, it's essential to buy ephemera from a collector with a solid reputation.

                What this guy on ebay is asking, is for someone to give him -- a stranger with no bona fides in the world of ebay sales (much less in the Disneyana world) -- $800, in exchange for his word that the ticket is genuine. No way should anyone take that risk, unless as you can get the history of the item and confirm its provenance. Even then, as Steve says, the asking price is high.
                Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 12-19-2012, 08:31 PM.
                "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
                it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
                together with every variety of recreation and fun,
                designed to appeal to everyone."

                - Walt Disney

                "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
                - Michael Eisner

                "It's very symbiotic."
                - Bob Chapek

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                  Virtually any ephemera is subject to replication. It was never intended to be of collectible value, thus there are no security measures included in the production. That individual piece is fairly simple. Without going into many details, with a few hundred dollars & the right equipment (which is common), one could make a couple thousand of those that would be absolutely identical to the original. The most difficult part is matching the paper which is scarce these days but still can be found.
                  I would be vary wary of such an item unless I could see it in person before purchasing & I would prefer a known authentic example on hand for verification. The paper will be the easiest give away. Paper made in the last 30 years are inherently "whiter" than those made earlier. Without boring you with the vagaries of paper chemistry, be certain that all white paper from the mid 50's is going to be a bit warmer than papers made today. That is all due to the chemistry used back then & what is used now. Another difference is the thickness of the paper. Paper of equivalent weight from the 50's is going to thinner than modern papers. That has to do with the type of trees made to make the pulp.
                  WIth all that said, be very cautious. The keys to identifying that piece will be found on the back. Hope that this can help you in some way.
                  Last edited by gomezaddams; 12-19-2012, 09:29 PM. Reason: typo
                  Skiddley Whiffers is a cruel mistress; cold and unforgiving.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                    Provenance of the item and the reputation of the seller is everything when it comes to high-end memorabilia. The seller has zero feedback, is relatively new member of ebay, and the listing itself is far too sparse to be reliable My recommendation is to pass on it. If you really want to get one from a reputable Disney memorabilia dealer, look up sellers Dizfunfair or Saturdaystoys. Or visit Phil Sears at his website. I've bought from all three so I can personally vouch for them.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                      Originally posted by Meville View Post
                      How many of them are there floating around I wonder?
                      If you mean real ones, there are maybe a hundred out there. It is hard to say what someone may have stored in an old shoebox. As for fakes, personally, I don't think very many. While the tickets appear gray in photos, the surface is actually a metallic silver--I'm not sure how easy this would be to print on with a home printer, with two ink colors that appear very solid and saturated on the surface.

                      Originally posted by swampymarsh View Post
                      Is it just me or do these seem easy to duplicate? I have heard stories of all the counterfeit passes made for 7/17/55.
                      As noted, I don't believe they'd be that easy to duplicate, at least by most home counterfeiters.

                      Now, this does bring us another myth to bust: That there were thousands of counterfeit tickets available on July 17, 1955. As mentioned above, the silver tickets have a metallic surface (I presume the green tickets have a similar reflective quality). They're also printed in two colors. In other words, back in 1955, only a reputable printing house would have been able to produce these--Joe Shmoe would not have been ableo turn anything like these out with his mimeograph machine and purple ink. To my knowledge, no "fake" pass has ever surfaced, and yet we've seen scores of originals. On its face, it appears that the idea of thousands of fake tickets used on opening day is a myth.

                      Now...I notice in the first auction for the silver ticket that the red ink from the front has bled through so that it shows on the back of the ticket. I will examine my examples later to see if this has occurred with them. The "paper" is really more of a cardstock--quite thick--so I do wonder if this is typical.
                      Last edited by Steve DeGaetano; 12-20-2012, 07:10 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                        Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
                        Now...I notice in the first auction for the silver ticket that the red ink from the front has bled through so that it shows on the back of the ticket. I will examine my examples later to see if this has occurred with them. The "paper" is really more of a cardstock--quite thick--so I do wonder if this is typical.
                        That isn't bleed through. This is known as "set off". It occurs right after the printing process while the press sheets are stacked front to back. If the ink is still wet & the paper is stacked too high, the wet ink from the front of one sheet transfers to the back of the sheet directly above it. Thus you have an image for the front of the ticket on the back of it.
                        Skiddley Whiffers is a cruel mistress; cold and unforgiving.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                          Ah, interesting. Makes sense.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                            Originally posted by Sosai X View Post
                            Provenance of the item and the reputation of the seller is everything when it comes to high-end memorabilia. The seller has zero feedback, is relatively new member of ebay, and the listing itself is far too sparse to be reliable My recommendation is to pass on it. If you really want to get one from a reputable Disney memorabilia dealer, look up sellers Dizfunfair or Saturdaystoys. Or visit Phil Sears at his website. I've bought from all three so I can personally vouch for them.
                            While having provenance and reputation is definitely important, lack of it doesn't necessarily mean unreliability. I have numerous (and some probably rare and valuable) Disneyland collectables. But I don't do eBay and have no reputation in that manner. If I were going to sell my items, I doubt that I would go to eBay, as I don't think I would get quality bids.

                            I think dealing in person on that sort of thing would be imperative. Having someone who knows the genuine article could help dispel concerns about forgeries. As I mentioned about my items, I would want someone who knows the real thing to look at them as I would feel that I could get a more accurate estimate of it's true value.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                              Originally posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
                              If you mean real ones, there are maybe a hundred out there. It is hard to say what someone may have stored in an old shoebox. As for fakes, personally, I don't think very many. While the tickets appear gray in photos, the surface is actually a metallic silver--I'm not sure how easy this would be to print on with a home printer, with two ink colors that appear very solid and saturated on the surface.

                              As noted, I don't believe they'd be that easy to duplicate, at least by most home counterfeiters.

                              Now, this does bring us another myth to bust: That there were thousands of counterfeit tickets available on July 17, 1955. As mentioned above, the silver tickets have a metallic surface (I presume the green tickets have a similar reflective quality). They're also printed in two colors. In other words, back in 1955, only a reputable printing house would have been able to produce these--Joe Shmoe would not have been ableo turn anything like these out with his mimeograph machine and purple ink. To my knowledge, no "fake" pass has ever surfaced, and yet we've seen scores of originals. On its face, it appears that the idea of thousands of fake tickets used on opening day is a myth.
                              I think that the fake invitations for the opening were letters, not tickets.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                                Originally posted by DLFan1995 View Post
                                I think that the fake invitations for the opening were letters, not tickets.
                                Well, you would think that at least might have shown up. Doesn't seem to be the case, as far as I can tell.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                                  In examining my examples, Gomez is right--the back definitely isn't as bright white as moden papers. Also, mine don't have the "set off," but I suppose that isn't unusual. The tickets are printed on card stock about the thickness of that used in playing cards.

                                  Swampymarsh--my scanner is on the fritz. As soon as I get it going--maybe this weekend--I'll shoot you some scans.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                                    Originally posted by PiecesOfEight View Post
                                    The seller has 0 feedback. I'd avoid it.
                                    2nded....

                                    Also the stock looks too good/new to me. It's something you'd want looked at verified before buying.

                                    It looks more inkjet to me than a true offset print... but it's hard to tell from photos. Basically you need to "feel" it in your hands, if you can feel the printing, it's more likely real, but from the photos it doesn't have any depth to it, which makes me suspect.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                                      While not really a fake, I think it is a reproduction. I have one that I bought at the D23 show at the Disneyland Hotel a couple of years ago. I think it came with a set of pins. Think I paid about $70 for the set.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Re: the actual thing or just a fake?

                                        Any reproduction should have a reproduction date printed on it. This is done to avoid confusion & limit the possibility of fraud. There doesn't appear to be such in the photographs of the object.
                                        As to the texture of printing of lithographic (offset) inks, there is none. The vast majority of lithographic inks are actually transparent. The pigment (color) of the ink is suspended in an oil based carrier or vehicle. The carrier is either absorbed in the substrate or dries by oxidation. The pigment lies on top of the paper with minimal absorption, bound to the paper by resins in the vehicle. You should not be able to "feel" the ink in the lithographic process. From cursory observation of the photographs, there seem to be contamination in the black plate inside the type "Disneyland" causing the little white specks within the type.
                                        This is indicative of lithographic printing. (Bad printing at that)
                                        In regards to the paper. I have never seen the real deal in person. My guess from the picture is that a white 8 to 12 point coated one side board was used. That means that the front side of the paper has an additional layer of clay applied to one side. The back side does not have this & should have a toothier finish. Because this paper is about 60 years old, there should be some degradation to the edges of the paper on the back side of the card. This is caused by moisture in the air reacting with the chemicals remaining from the paper making process. This degradation is known as foxing and should appear to be a yellowing or browning along the edges. It should be more prominent on the back due to the fact that the clay on the front side is alkaline. It is possible for a 60 year old piece of alum rosin sized cover to be in pristine condition. It is highly unlikely as it would have to have been kept in a dry area mounted or leafed between alkaline reservoir preservation paper. Procedures like this were not done in 1955. It is supposedly a ticket whose life was supposed to cease a long time ago. It was never designed for longevity. Most printing isn't.
                                        I'm not saying that it is not real. From actual observation, I could only tell if it was printed within a five to ten year time frame. The lack of foxing on the back bothers me a lot. This piece of ephemera may have been kept in ideal conditions for one half of a century. Then it would appear without the discoloration on the back. That is an $800 leap of faith & unless you know what you are doing, that's one big jump. I definitely would have to see it in person first & at that point I could only tell whether it was printed using materials from that time frame. It could have been printed a month ago using 60 year old paper on a style of press that was around back then.
                                        Bottom Line. Not with my money. I really hope that this helps you. If you need any more detailed or technical info, just PM me as i don't want to bog this thread down any more than I already have.
                                        Skiddley Whiffers is a cruel mistress; cold and unforgiving.

                                        Comment

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