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  • [Other] Eisner or Steinberg?

    This is probably going to be a tough question I'm about to ask, so I'm probably going to have to tread carefully so as not to offend anyone: with all these threads and posts and whatnot that seem to be always going after someone corporate simply because they don't seem to see eye-to-eye with the fans or Walt's ways, I finally decided to get it off my chest...

    In 1984, the company was on the verge of being broken up and sold off by corporate raiders, such as Saul Steinberg. However, Roy E. Disney brought in Michael Eisner (and Frank Wells) to save the company. Since then, however, especially after 1994, thanks to Eisner, fans seem to have thought that the company had sold the ways of Walt down the river and that now no one in the company cares about its history anymore.

    So I can't help but wonder, would it have been better to exist with Eisner, or not to exist, thanks to Steinberg?

    Like I said, I apologize if my thread comes off as offensive, but I just needed to get this off my chest.
    23
    Michael Eisner
    86.96%
    20
    Saul Steinberg
    13.04%
    3
    My top favorite Disneyland attractions:

    1. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
    2. Pirates of the Caribbean
    3. Splash Mountain
    4. Mad Tea Party
    5. Peter Pan's Flight
    6. Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin

  • #2
    Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

    Originally posted by Disneylandfan85 View Post
    So I can't help but wonder, would it have been better to exist with Eisner, or not to exist, thanks to Steinberg?
    And your answer is...?
    "Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because
    it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning,
    together with every variety of recreation and fun,
    designed to appeal to everyone."

    - Walt Disney

    "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides."
    - Michael Eisner

    "It's very symbiotic."
    - Bob Chapek

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    • #3
      Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

      http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...steinberg.html





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      • #4
        Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

        Despite all the valid arguments one could make about Eisner's bad decisions, especially the DCA greenlight, he also made really good ones like trusting in Baxter's ability to get Lucas on board and that having Lucas' properties in the park would be the biggest success of the eighties. Eisner raised up in rank through the entertainment industry and was a very creative individual.

        Steinberg on the other hand was a corporate raider and would have surely liquidated the Disney assets as soon as he was done sucking the market leverage value from the company. Essentially he could have contributed to the death of Disney parks as we know them today.

        Yes, it sucks that the parks are slowly turning into a giant advertisement for Disney entertainment properties but when you think of what could have happened if 1984 wen't in the other direction then I count my blessings.
        Many Bothans died to bring you these fastpasses.

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        • #5
          Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

          This is where the discussion should be (because of the poll), not there. I made a mistake.

          Originally posted by G24T View Post
          Despite all the valid arguments one could make about Eisner's bad decisions, especially the DCA greenlight, he also made really good ones like trusting in Baxter's ability to get Lucas on board and that having Lucas' properties in the park would be the biggest success of the eighties. Eisner raised up in rank through the entertainment industry and was a very creative individual.
          And yet, everyone seems to see only his flaws and nothing more.
          My top favorite Disneyland attractions:

          1. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
          2. Pirates of the Caribbean
          3. Splash Mountain
          4. Mad Tea Party
          5. Peter Pan's Flight
          6. Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

            There're really no arguments that can evolve around Steinberg. We didn't see what he did to the Walt Disney Company, let alone the Disney Parks. Eisner on the other hand was real and really did do things to the park. He did do a lot of great things. He did do a lot of stupid things. And he did do a lot of things that make you want to go "SCREW YOU!" We'll never what Steinberg would've done. Perhaps the parks would have prospered. Perhaps they would have failed. I'm going to go with Eisner, simply because without him we wouldn't have many of the things that make Disney nostalgic for me today. As a 90's kid, I'm always going to remember all the old Disney Channel cartoons, all the animated features of the 90's, and of course Splash Mountain, Star Tours, Indiana Jones Adventure, and strangely enough - the old DCA.
            "Y'all come back now, ya hear?"

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            • #7
              Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

              There is one thing Eisner did, that may be the sole reason Disney and it's parks are are are able to thrive. He bought Capitol Records, or more importantly thier ownership of ABC which owned the mega cash cow, ESPN.

              Disney's media branch provides the majority of disney income, it does this because it charges more for its networks, by bundling them with ESPN, the most important network on TV. ESPN provides a lot of leverage.

              It may be the reason DCA was redone, new cruise ships built, new resorts built, Shanghai getting built, Pirates movies produced, Pixar bought.........

              ESPN is the single biggest reason that Disney is a media company, not a theme park operator or movie studio.
              Be Cool Stay in School!
              Next year I'm trying for a summer internship at Stark Industries.

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              • #8
                Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                Let's make it clear that Steinberg was never going to be CEO of Disney. He wanted to buy the company and sell the different sects of the Company for profit. Steinberg was a corporate raider; never in the running to be CEO.

                Eisner obviously had many many missteps, particularly in the last decade on his tenure. However, the first 10 years brought a new level of quality and artistry to Disney which hadn't been seen since 1966.

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                • #9
                  Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                  Saul Steinberg passed away a couple of weeks ago. I imagine he had some explaining to do upstairs for his questionable and ruthless tactics he used throughout his adult life to make huge profits for himself, destroying American companies and careers along the way. But for the grace of God, Saul Steinberg wasn't able to get his hands on Walt Disney Productions in early 1984.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                    Originally posted by disneylandfan95 View Post
                    Let's make it clear that Steinberg was never going to be CEO of Disney. He wanted to buy the company and sell the different sects of the Company for profit. Steinberg was a corporate raider; never in the running to be CEO.
                    I never said that Steinberg was going to be CEO. My original point was whether one wanted to see Disney eliminated right then and there because of him or something else happen with Eisner.
                    My top favorite Disneyland attractions:

                    1. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
                    2. Pirates of the Caribbean
                    3. Splash Mountain
                    4. Mad Tea Party
                    5. Peter Pan's Flight
                    6. Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                      Originally posted by Disneylandfan85 View Post
                      I never said that Steinberg was going to be CEO. My original point was whether one wanted to see Disney eliminated right then and there because of him or something else happen with Eisner.
                      I wasn't referencing you specifically. It just seemed as if other posters were getting confused, thinking that Steinberg was in the running for CEO, when in actuality, he would have destroyed the company as a corporate raider.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                        So, as I see it, if Steinberg would have had control of DL, most likely it would have been sold to a huge corporation whose sole interest would be to squeeze every possible nickel out of it......wait! DL presently IS owned by a huge corporation whose sole interest.......

                        Either way, we, the the guests, lose. And the huge corporation, along with its $53,000,000 a year CEO wins.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                          Originally posted by micromind View Post
                          So, as I see it, if Steinberg would have had control of DL, most likely it would have been sold to a huge corporation whose sole interest would be to squeeze every possible nickel out of it......wait! DL presently IS owned by a huge corporation whose sole interest.......
                          If control was lost a holding company would take over. They would likely sell, the tv channel, movies, merchandise, and themeparks to other companies. In fact DL could be one company and WDW could of been owned by a different company.

                          Consider what DL would be like if back then Cedar Fair or Six Flags had bought it? What if WDW was bought by a Japanese company that shortly after started to slow down as the Japanese Real Estate Bubble burst and it couldn't expand WDW?
                          Be Cool Stay in School!
                          Next year I'm trying for a summer internship at Stark Industries.

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                          • #14
                            Burke, Lasseter, or Katzenberg?

                            May I vote for a time travellin' group led by the Oriental Land Company/Miyazaki/Four Seasons/Pixar-John Lasseter/Brad Bird/Steve Jobs/Glen Keane/Frank Wells/Roy Disney, Jr. and Jeffrey Katzenberg? (Most of them weren't ready in 1984.)

                            :ot:
                            A more interesting question to me is
                            :

                            Who should take over Disney in March of 2015 instead of Thomas Staggs?

                            --Steve Burke, though I doubt he'd leave Universal

                            --John Lasseter (Yes, & Staggs could be his #2 in the Roy Disney, Sr./Frank Wells businessman role. Steve Jobs' widow and other major stockholders could push for this.)

                            --Jeffrey Katzenberg, if he could sell DreamWorks Animation to Universal, Sony, or WB and then get along with Laseter. Note: since leaving Disney he's become a much better employer. The Disneyland cast member Christmas parties would return as extravaganzas.
                            Last edited by jcruise86; 12-25-2012, 12:08 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                              Eisner. Especially Eisner the First 10 Years.
                              I'm curious if there's been any academic studies concerning Eisner's business career, especially his change of executive manner with the Disney company. It has certainly been a mind boggler.
                              I am old. But still love Disneyland.

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                              • #16
                                Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                                Originally posted by G24T View Post
                                Eisner raised up in rank through the entertainment industry and was a very creative individual.
                                Problems start when creative people (and I agree that Eisner was the creative guy to Wells' "no-man" role) are allowed to give themselves the green light for every idea they conceive.
                                That is what (imo) happened after Wells died.

                                The other thing that happened was inevitable: Eisner's name is not Disney, and Eisner could (and did) walk away from the company (and the name) anytime he wanted. Until he did, though, he took as much money (stock options) as the board would allow him.

                                There would not be a Disney as we know today if Steinberg had bought the company. Disneyland would be moved part and parcel to some cheaper place (Riverside), while the land under it would be turned into highrises or something similar. WDW would have been sold to Universal. (all imo)

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                                • #17
                                  Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                                  ...all just speculation as to what WOULD HAVE HAPPENED but didn't.





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                                  I am Sambo, and I endorse this signature.

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                                  • #18
                                    Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                                    You are very observant, seeing both of my "imo's," and making sure others do not fail to notice them.

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                                    • #19
                                      Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                                      I noticed them, and value your opinions. It was just a reminder that whenever any of us - myself included - answer these questions it is all fantasy. It is not like answering how a repair or replacement on an attraction has improved, or made it worse. While those answers are still personal and opinions, there may be more data for conclusions to be drawn, than in the wide open historical case for Eisner v. Steinberg.

                                      That said... moved to Riverside? Really? )





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                                      I am Sambo, and I endorse this signature.

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                                      • #20
                                        Re: Eisner or Steinberg?

                                        Originally posted by swampymarsh View Post
                                        If control was lost a holding company would take over. They would likely sell, the tv channel, movies, merchandise, and themeparks to other companies. In fact DL could be one company and WDW could of been owned by a different company.

                                        Consider what DL would be like if back then Cedar Fair or Six Flags had bought it? What if WDW was bought by a Japanese company that shortly after started to slow down as the Japanese Real Estate Bubble burst and it couldn't expand WDW?
                                        Let me expand on this.

                                        When companies are taken over, if by a competitor they keep the parts they want to keep running them and sell off the parts they don't want.

                                        With Disney you sell the cable channels to another media company. You sell the movie studio to another movie studio. You sell the movie and tv rights to a media company. You sell the merchandise rights to a toy company. You sell the themeparks to a theme park company or land developer. WDW likely would of been sold to a land developer because it has tons of open land next to popular attractions.

                                        Disney was a takeover target because the sum of it's parts was far greater than its market value, so to make money from buying it you buy it at market value and sell it part by part.

                                        ^^^Fact not opinion. It's been done thousands of times and people have wanted to do it with Disney more than once.

                                        Also Disneyland has also done this itself to itself and competitors.
                                        Be Cool Stay in School!
                                        Next year I'm trying for a summer internship at Stark Industries.

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