Aerial view of DL, DCA, 3rd Gate- etc

[ah schucks]

Hey folks, I spent some time editing a smaller map this morning and Mr. Spider was nice as to point myself to a site where I was able to piece several smaller maps of Anaheim together to form this:


Now when you want to discuss the feasibility of a ride you can refer to this map and compare the size. You can see the size difference between DCA and DL and the preposed 3rd Gate.

I hightlighted yellow areas as places Disney needs to persue to expand properly. Green areas are sold and solid and not in Disney control nor necessary for expansion. Orange is current parking. Blue are expansion areas already in Disney control.

Thanks again to Jspider!-Tom

[Soarin' ain't Borin']

Nice...
So I am assuming that the 3rd gate area is where the "Strawberry Fields" used to be?

[ah schucks]

Nice...
So I am assuming that the 3rd gate area is where the "Strawberry Fields" used to be?

This is preposed site. Nothing is solid yet. As you can see those yellow hotels prepose a large obstacle. Preferably it would be awesome to see a very massive land bridge up and over that interestion that would connect the tail of DCA to the 3rd Gate.

Even threads like rerouting the monorail, a skyway and extended People Movers or moving walk ways, will be necessary to ferry people back and forth between the parks---a new and improved monorail is the most obvious system like in Florida but who knows.

[Witches of Morva]

ORDDU: Well, now you ducklings know what my sisters and I get to see while flying our broomsticks over the Happiest Place on Earth! How nice that someone has taken the time to photograph it and then put it up for all to see. (By the way, Aw Shucks, dear--what sort of broom stick to YOU fly? Or are you one of those modern warlocks who insists on riding one of those new-fangled things they call a vacuum cleaner?)

[ah schucks]

I am one of them Muggles who hacks errr plays with eerrrr used defense satellites, I mean mirrors I mean err ...nasa photos, hummmmmmmmm

[Alan-A-Dale]

Gosh - I just have a hard time believing Disney is going to spend any real resource on this third gate idea until they can get the attendance on the second gate up.

It will be interesting to see what this next generation of the Disney corporation thinks about this idea (probably not a lot of new thinking, I'm betting).

Your map does a pretty good job of proving why Walt went to Florida for a do-over.

[ah schucks]

We all acknowledge DCA needs some tinkering "Imagination in Progress" I think I laid this out as a way for people to better understand what they are debating and see the layout from a non-cartoon scanned vistor map- kind of way.

For example if you look closly at the site of Autopia its huge- give you an idea just how much land one attraction takes up versus looking at the other side of the park, where two or three attractions occupy the same space.

Or for example just how much land is left in Timon and where that extra parking can and will be shifted to.

[XCLIPSE129]

Do you think those hotels/restaurants across DL would ever sell their property to Disney? I think not.. those are goldmines to any private owners. So I highly doubt disney can expanded anymore except for those fields across from Anahiem Conv Ctr. And im thinking Anaheim wont allow Disney to build anything in that intersection. Cant imagine the traffice that will cause during any type of construction there.. It was hell before when they were buidling DTD and DCA...

[JoeCool]

That Anaheim walk is in the way I hope Disney buys the owners out

[XCLIPSE129]

That Anaheim walk is in the way I hope Disney buys the owners out

Totally agree...I think that spot has been empty for 5yrs or more already.. theyput up that wall like 3 yrs ago and stated they will put some "citywalk" copy cat in anaheim. But all i see is dirt and rocks eveyrwhere..no progress it hasnt even been leveled or whatever you call it before they do construction. They should make that the cast parking .. and build over the curr cast parking... btu yah thats gonna happen.

[Giant Panda]

Do you think those hotels/restaurants across DL would ever sell their property to Disney? I think not.. those are goldmines to any private owners. So I highly doubt disney can expanded anymore except for those fields across from Anahiem Conv Ctr. And im thinking Anaheim wont allow Disney to build anything in that intersection. Cant imagine the traffice that will cause during any type of construction there.. It was hell before when they were buidling DTD and DCA...

If Disney feels they can generate enough revenue to cover the expense of aquiring the property and redeveloping it to suit their purposes, they'd be foolish not too. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibilities.

I think the city will let Disney do whatever it can to make money, since the city makes money whenever Disney does. Temporary traffic impacts are negligible.

The day will come when it will actually be easier to redevelop the surrounding areas of Anaheim than the swamplands of Florida, unless you expect Earth to look like Corusant.

[dshimel]

Do you think those hotels/restaurants across DL would ever sell their property to Disney? I think not..

Anything is for sale, if the price is right.

The question is:
Would there be sufficient demand for 2 full-week Disney resorts in the United States? WDW pulls some 48 million visitor-days a year and runs 20,000 hotel rooms 77% full. DL pulls 18 million visitor-days a year and fills 2,000 hotel rooms 87% full. Total 66 million and 22,000 hotel rooms.

If DLR expands to a 6-day, 4-park, 15,000 hotel room resort and ups their total to 40 million visitor days a year would the new 2 resort total be 88 million visitor-days and 35,000 hotel rooms 75+% full, or would DLR just steal guests from WDW?


Surprisingly, I think a LOT of that has to do with DLR's ability to market itself to Mexico, Central and South America. WDW acheives a lot of its occupancy from Europe. DLR would need to pull 10 million of visitor-days or more a year from south of San Diego.

[Jspider]

Do you think those hotels/restaurants across DL would ever sell their property to Disney? I think not.. those are goldmines to any private owners. So I highly doubt disney can expanded anymore except for those fields across from Anahiem Conv Ctr. And im thinking Anaheim wont allow Disney to build anything in that intersection. Cant imagine the traffice that will cause during any type of construction there.. It was hell before when they were buidling DTD and DCA...

but lets look at the facts

Disney already HAS bought out hotels and taken them out, check out the 1995 aerial pic on the third gate thread, parts of the Timon lot were once hotels (and pretty decent sized parts too the Candycane is a small survivor of that)

and lets also look at the fact that the City of Anahiem PAYED for most of the road reconstruction NOT Disney, they paid for the parking garage and everything, the city of anihiem WANTED DLR very badly

I think the reason Disney didn't get that land is because the city of anihiem WANTS it's own citywalk type thing and Disney has DTD so doesn't want to build another one so they're not

[JoeCool]

You could be right....Without a 3rd gate, that area where the anaheim garden walk is will not be visited by tourists.

[mrfantasmic]

That is a very impressive ariel photo... how big is the maximum resolution?

[fearsnda]

Hey folks, I spent some time editing a smaller map this morning and Mr. Spider was nice as to point myself to a site where I was able to piece several smaller maps of Anaheim together to form this:


Now when you want to discuss the feasibility of a ride you can refer to this map and compare the size. You can see the size difference between DCA and DL and the preposed 3rd Gate.

I hightlighted yellow areas as places Disney needs to persue to expand properly. Green areas are sold and solid and not in Disney control nor necessary for expansion. Orange is current parking. Blue are expansion areas already in Disney control.

Thanks again to Jspider!-Tom

That top area labeled "Disney Building" is not unavailable. TDA, The Eat Ticket and the TDA Parking Garage only really occupy the top right corner of that. The other areas aren't really all that permanent and there are many areas back there that could be removed, relocated or changed to accommodate new attractions. Circle D is an excellent example - there is also quite a bit of space back there dedicated to Magic Music Days - which could always be moved just about anywhere. Obviously the round house would have to stay...

Just an FYI

[Jspider]

Anything is for sale, if the price is right.

The question is:
Would there be sufficient demand for 2 full-week Disney resorts in the United States? WDW pulls some 48 million visitor-days a year and runs 20,000 hotel rooms 77% full. DL pulls 18 million visitor-days a year and fills 2,000 hotel rooms 87% full. Total 66 million and 22,000 hotel rooms.

If DLR expands to a 6-day, 4-park, 15,000 hotel room resort and ups their total to 40 million visitor days a year would the new 2 resort total be 88 million visitor-days and 35,000 hotel rooms 75+% full, or would DLR just steal guests from WDW?


Surprisingly, I think a LOT of that has to do with DLR's ability to market itself to Mexico, Central and South America. WDW acheives a lot of its occupancy from Europe. DLR would need to pull 10 million of visitor-days or more a year from south of San Diego.

but that's the way it is when they add new PARKS to WDW the attendence for the others drops but the overall attendance rises

so expanding DLR could give them more money overall in theory (especialy if they market it to the whole Western side of the US because THAT way people can spend money saved on travel ad the Disney resort since it's Disney's plan to get the largest piece of the tourists money possible)

[gibbage]

One thing that suprises me is just HOW MUCH ROOM some of the older attractions take up! For instance, River of America takes up almost 1/4 of DL!!! For what? Then there is Jungle Cruise taking up a good chunk. Compair that to the latest E-Ticket at DCA the TOT taking up about 1/4th of the JC's room. You also have Autopia taking up a great portion of the north/east section of the park.

I say cut the river in half and put in a nice big E-ticket there. It would save some wear and tear on the boats

[Jspider]

One thing that suprises me is just HOW MUCH ROOM some of the older attractions take up! For instance, River of America takes up almost 1/4 of DL!!! For what? Then there is Jungle Cruise taking up a good chunk. Compair that to the latest E-Ticket at DCA the TOT taking up about 1/4th of the JC's room. You also have Autopia taking up a great portion of the north/east section of the park.

I say cut the river in half and put in a nice big E-ticket there. It would save some wear and tear on the boats

the large rivers and especialy the jungle cruise are nice because they create real things that allow you to see real space in a way, they help build to the illusion that the park is larger then it actualy is

and the ride time would seem horridly short if you cut back the river that much and you might have to cut back operation on the Mark Twain and Columbia to only one boat at a time

now if they could build an actual ATTRACTION on the Tom Sawyer Island and provide more ways of getting to it that would be prime

I do agree the older things take up a TON of space, one of the biggest mishmeshes being Autopia

[dshimel]

but that's the way it is when they add new PARKS to WDW the attendence for the others drops but the overall attendance rises

so expanding DLR could give them more money overall in theory (especialy if they market it to the whole Western side of the US because THAT way people can spend money saved on travel ad the Disney resort since it's Disney's plan to get the largest piece of the tourists money possible)

I think a lot of WDW's growth over the past 20 years has been from people extending their stays longer and longer. 1 or 2 days when it was just MK. 2 or 3 days with Epcot. 4 days with water park and 3rd gate. 6-7 days with 2 more water parks, DTD and DAK. I think you can get that "extending stay" when you have 5-6 million out-of-state guests coming and paying full price for tickets and staying in your hotels. 6 million staying 2 days is 12 million visits. 6 million staying 3 days is 18 million... 6 million out-of-state visitors staying 7 days each is 42 million visitors. Each time you add a day to the average stay you add 6 million visits.

DLR is simply not pulling those kinds of out-of-state visitors.

18 million visits, with 600K APs averaging 10 visits each is 6 million of the 18. Of the 12 million remaining visits, half are locals. That leaves some 6 million visits by non-locals. If the average stay is 2 days, you're looking at 3 million non-locals. If you up their average stay from 3 days to 4, you up your attendance by 3 million...

Checking if this number is realistic.... DL has some 2K hotel rooms, 365 days a year, 87% booked.... That is some 600K hotel room nights. If they average 3 people per room per night, that is 1.8 million people-nights. If only one fourth of non-locals stay on site, you're looking at 3.5 million non-locals staying 2 nights each....

Far short of the 6 million or so WDW pulls.....

Yes, the 6 million visits by locals that don't have APs will also increase with the addition of extra gates..... but enough?

Again, I think the odds of DLR continueing to grow is going to be determined by their ability to increase visits by non-locals, without stealing from WDW.... I think that means attracting more people from South of San Diego.