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  • Originally posted by Cuzco-topia
    Add more twinkly lights. That will make it more romantic. It always works for DL

    :lol: true dat..





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    I am Sambo, and I endorse this signature.

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    • Ahhhh.... twinkly lights.... I think I'll go tell my wife I love her.
      Honor those who fall under the sword.
      But pity the warrior who has slain all his enemies.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Importance
        First, I've explained why California is a broad, expansive theme with many opportunities and possibilities, see Post #214. You've never responded as to why that vision of California wouldn't make a good theme park.
        I think that 2 things are required for magic... talent and mystery.

        If a magician does a trick poorly, such as poor timing or no drama, the show will suck. Like a comedian with no stage presence or sense of timing.

        You also need a bit of mystery... Once you know how an escape trick or a levitation trick works, it simply isn't that magical anymore.

        So, let's say they did a romantacised La Brea Tar Pits. They could clean up the goop and do AA mastadons getting stuck in the goop, and do other great "show".... But, everyone that went to school near L.A. will have been to the La Brea Tar Pits many times.. No mystery.

        If they do Gold Rush... everyone already knows about the Gold Rush. CA history... everyone knows CA history. Wharf.... There are wharfs all over.

        I just don't think you can do things in a theme park that people can see and do everywhere. They are too familiar with them... no mystery.

        And yes, DCA was focused at non-locals that won't be as familiar... Still there is a strong sense that you're seeing a cheap copy of something that is really near by. I wouldn't want to see a fake Eifel Tower in DLP or a shrunk down Cape Canaveral at WDW.... That is just silly since the real thing is an hour away!

        Originally posted by Importance
        Second, now you're arguing about the difference of a few hours of driving. It is as easy to get to Bryce from SoCal as it is to get to Yosemite.
        I've been very careful not to include Grizzly Peak and HPB in my list of DCA sucky themes.... Those are the things that don't exist in reality, really near-by, that you can easily do outside of a theme park.

        Originally posted by Importance
        Third, you didn't respond to all my examples.
        Since they all pretty much had the same answer, I didn't feel the need to say the same thing over and over.


        But if you want.... I'll reply again.



        Originally posted by Importance
        Fourth, even if the real thing is relatively nearby, that doesn't mean having a Disney-fied version is redundant or a poor idea. Condor Flats isn't some crappy little airport, it is meant to symbolize aviation pioneers in California. Could it be better? Yes. But the idea of theming to aviation pioneers is at least as good as theming to the Old West.
        No... it is not nearly as good a themeing.....

        For Frontierland, Disney could build a real river boat and real mine train and real old fort.... and they could let people really ride in them and play on them.

        Disney didn't have the room, and couldn't afford to build replicas of old aircraft. Even if they did, they couldn't let you really fly in them and play on them....

        The quality of the magic trick couls NEVER be done nearly as well... At best it was going to be the difference between driving a race car and visiting a race car museum.

        Second, none of us has any first hand experience with old forts and indian villages and mine trains and river boats.... We don't see them, visit them, or otherwise experience them in our daily lives.... There is a major sense of mystery.

        No matter who you are and where you're from odds are high that you've seen planes, probably ridden on one, and almost certainly have experience with airports.

        CA avation history NEVER had the chance of being nearly as good of a theme as Forntierland because execution could not never be done with the same quality or with the same level of interations, and there was never the same sense of mystery.

        Originally posted by Importance
        You may disagree, but pointing to crappy little airports to make your point is like pointing to crappy little abandoned shacks to claim Frontierland is a bad idea.
        But Frontierland isn't a bunch of abandoned shacks... It is working riverboat and forts and a sallon/showroom and a mine train....

        Cementdor flats is just some abandoned rusty, tin buildings..... and there was NEVER a realistic oppertunity to do anything more.


        The themes needed to have much more mystery, be things people actually want to do, be capable of much better execution, and allow much more interaction!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dshimel
          I think that 2 things are required for magic... talent and mystery.

          If a magician does a trick poorly, such as poor timing or no drama, the show will suck. Like a comedian with no stage presence or sense of timing.

          You also need a bit of mystery... Once you know how an escape trick or a levitation trick works, it simply isn't that magical anymore.

          So, let's say they did a romantacised La Brea Tar Pits. They could clean up the goop and do AA mastadons getting stuck in the goop, and do other great "show".... But, everyone that went to school near L.A. will have been to the La Brea Tar Pits many times.. No mystery.

          If they do Gold Rush... everyone already knows about the Gold Rush. CA history... everyone knows CA history. Wharf.... There are wharfs all over.

          I just don't think you can do things in a theme park that people can see and do everywhere. They are too familiar with them... no mystery.

          And yes, DCA was focused at non-locals that won't be as familiar... Still there is a strong sense that you're seeing a cheap copy of something that is really near by. I wouldn't want to see a fake Eifel Tower in DLP or a shrunk down Cape Canaveral at WDW.... That is just silly since the real thing is an hour away!
          There is plenty of mystery, if you are doing a romantic vision of something. I've been to New Orleans. I've been to Munich. I've been to small towns in the Midwest. I've been to Bryce Canyon. I've been to the Mississippi. I've ridden a nuclear submarine. That doesn't mean that Disneyland still doesn't have magic for me.

          The museum at the La Brea Tar Pits is nice. But that doesn't mean a show that went beyond the Page Museum would lack mystery. It could show you things that a museum cannot. I'm not recommending a particular ride, but Jurassic Park: The Ride, is dinosaur-themed, but it isn't boring because kids can see dinosaur skeletons at the Natural History Museum in Exposition Park.

          Who knows what a Gold Rush ride might look like. Some have recommended some sort of runaway mining cart. There are other ideas. Doesn't sound as if that would be boring to me. Kids read about the gold rush. They don't experience aspects of it.

          Theme does not equal "the same things people can see and do everywhere." One of the things that is great about the Hollywood Backlot is that most of the facades are borrowed from semi-famous Los Angeles Architecture. It is one of the reasons that street works so well. However, you need good content behind the facades, but there is nothing wrong with the theming. There is still plenty of mystery as most people wouldn't recognize exactly where that architecture comes from.

          There are wharfs all over, but few are quite like Cannery Row. Cannery Row can be at least as cool a themeing concept as New Orleans. And, hey, isn't Monterey a bit too far of a drive for most people, if Yosemite is?

          Sure, you can genercize any concept. Or you can add romance and mystery. No reason you can't do it with California's icons.

          Originally posted by dshimel
          I've been very careful not to include Grizzly Peak and HPB in my list of DCA sucky themes.... Those are the things that don't exist in reality, really near-by, that you can easily do outside of a theme park.
          What, you can't just go to the San Gabriel mountains and see the same thing? Sure you could. It's just a forest themeing.


          Originally posted by dshimel
          No... it is not nearly as good a themeing.....

          For Frontierland, Disney could build a real river boat and real mine train and real old fort.... and they could let people really ride in them and play on them.

          Disney didn't have the room, and couldn't afford to build replicas of old aircraft. Even if they did, they couldn't let you really fly in them and play on them....

          The quality of the magic trick couls NEVER be done nearly as well... At best it was going to be the difference between driving a race car and visiting a race car museum.
          There is a difference between doing something well and saying you can't do something at all. There are a number of different rides and experiences that could have been added to Condor Flats that would have fit into a pioneering aviation theme. It doesn't have to be a museum. You could build an old fort ... you could have built an old hangar with many interactive elements. Obviously you couldn't have real aircraft, but there is Soarin' and you could have done an aircraft themed roller coaster, or rocket sled. Heck, even something along the lines of Mission: Space could have been done.
          Originally posted by dshimel
          Second, none of us has any first hand experience with old forts and indian villages and mine trains and river boats.... We don't see them, visit them, or otherwise experience them in our daily lives.... There is a major sense of mystery.
          Well, there isn't an Indian Village anymore, but plenty of people go to the Indian reservations nowadays. There might not be mine trains, but everyone knows all about the gold rush, which included mine trains, right? And lots of people have been on boats. In fact, odds are high that you've seen boats and probably have ridden on one.
          Originally posted by dshimel
          No matter who you are and where you're from odds are high that you've seen planes, probably ridden on one, and almost certainly have experience with airports.
          Yeah, but you've never been a test pilot or experienced an experimental aircraft back in the days when aircraft were a mystery, flying was a major production, and airports weren't filled with security.
          Originally posted by dshimel
          CA avation history NEVER had the chance of being nearly as good of a theme as Forntierland because execution could not never be done with the same quality or with the same level of interations, and there was never the same sense of mystery.
          I disagree. The romantic era of aviation pioneers still holds plenty of mystery and there is plenty of opportunity for high-quality interaction.
          Originally posted by dshimel
          But Frontierland isn't a bunch of abandoned shacks... It is working riverboat and forts and a sallon/showroom and a mine train....

          Cementdor flats is just some abandoned rusty, tin buildings..... and there was NEVER a realistic oppertunity to do anything more.
          Condor Flats could be better, no doubt about it. That doesn't mean that the idea behind it was wrong. If Frontierland was just a single E-ticket and a little Western themeing, it would be weak too. Many people do think it could use some work as well.
          Originally posted by dshimel
          The themes needed to have much more mystery, be things people actually want to do, be capable of much better execution, and allow much more interaction!
          Having experienced most of what California has to offer many, many times. I still think there is plenty of mystery to be had.

          Comment


          • Here's a radical idea; have one of the "rides" be a special Disney spieled bus tour of some parts of REAL california, then make DCA focused more on the fantasy version of California that most people think of. You could have the short bus tour, and for tourists who want the full package, Disney could hook up with some hotels in the area and give a tour thats longer and more extensive. Then with this fresh insight on the real california people could more appreciate the fantasy version, and especially any fantasy history attractions such as a Zorro ride, or a miner ride. Basically the bus tour (the short version) would act like the tram tour does at Universal, and Disney could come up with a clever speil script of facts about the places on the tour. The extensive tour could include a fuller package for more money, and this would help book disneyland hotels more for that part of the package. If they really advertised this well it would draw in tourists from out of state, and give more money and reason to add onto the full resort with eventually a third gate and smaller amenities like a water park and mini golf (which could be technically off property, and have bus rides to those places, you could incorporate the tour bus as transporation to these places). Plus if they did this tour thing it would create some much needed goodwill between some of the other California state attractions and their owners and Disneyland once again. Walt used to have a lot of goodwill in this manner because he knew that it didnt matter where in california visitors went, most of them would still see Disneyland so the more people drawn to California for ANY reason was good. Thats why Walter Knott and Disney prospered at the same time; they didnt fight each other they cooperated and helped each other: when Disneyland was closed, Knotts berry farm was open and vice versa, and both advertised for each others parks in small ways. Get California actually involved in california adventure, and slightly change the theming to less realistic and more fantastic, and with the whole state "helping" in this manner (just think of all the free advertising you could get from each spot on the tour, and all the free advertising they could get from Disney... win win.) I dont think you could fail.

            I think thats the major problem here; Disney is trying to represent the state of California in isolation without any feedback or help from the state itself, and seems shallow because of this.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sambo
              ...it finally dawned on me. You prefer a cheap online "adult" experience over the expense danger, and mystery of discovery involved in a "real" relationship.

              Now I know where you're coming from - I understand why you feel the way you do about DCA. Sorry - my bad. ...Didn't mean to intrude...
              If you are gonna write something so sharp and tactful, you mind explaining yourself? If you are implying, I prefer online association with my friends and family- then sir you don't know me very well or at all and should reserve judgement. This was in bad taste.

              Do you know why I love California so much? I am an Eagle Scout sir, I have traveled up and down this great state visiting national parks and great towns. I worked in Hollywood for 3 years. My father is a pilot so I have a great deal of love and respect for the industry. I was born here, raised here, loved here and I will die here- all of that without exsisting some phantom capacity online.

              Do you know what I see as a problem with so many people who dislike the overall DCA experiance. They are far too jaded. "Oh I flew once- I don't need a flight experiance ride." or "I've been to Yoesmite, I don't need to go again." or "I goto Santa Monica pier each weekend, why would I wanna go for another $50 bucks?" GOOD, GREAT, WONDERFUL LA DEE FRICKEN DA! So have I and you know what I keep going cause everytime I see half dome I look at it with childlike wonder and awe. Evertime a plane takes off, I grip my armrest a little tighter, even after having flown planes myself. When I step on to a real working backlot I still get goosebumps. When I am paddling down the American River up north, I still feel the adreline of the experiance...

              You know what I still feel these things when I goto DCA. Do you know what the problem with people is today, they loose the ability to see the world through the eyes of a child. They choose to be petty and selfish and demand the latest and greatest gadgets and gizmos. They want faster rides, less education cause they know it all. Its too bad really, they miss great experiances cause there so jaded.

              We all have things we wish we could change about DCA and you might not like my suggestions, I through them together at the drop of a hat, but the truth is we are both thinking of ways to improve an "improvable park."

              Thank you for being adult enough about your comments to own up to the slightly offensive nature of this comment, it takes a real mature person to do that and I appreciate it. I apologize if my comments have come off as venomous whatsoever.






              Comment


              • Let me start with this....

                Thank you for your well thought out post Mr/Ms Importance.... I appreaciate a post with well reasoned logic that makes me think....

                That said, you're still wrong about DCA.


                Originally posted by Importance
                There is plenty of mystery, if you are doing a romantic vision of something. I've been to New Orleans. I've been to Munich. I've been to small towns in the Midwest. I've been to Bryce Canyon. I've been to the Mississippi. I've ridden a nuclear submarine. That doesn't mean that Disneyland still doesn't have magic for me.
                I've been to New Orliens myself, a couple times... The difference between NOS and the Wharf is fundimental... NOS has unique architecture that brings to mind another time and place. In conjours images of the dignified ladies and dashing gentlemen, of giant hoop gowns and stylish top hats, of horse and buggy era.... It screams romance from the top of its lungs..

                AND, it isn't done the way New Orleans really exists today, full of bars and strip clubs. And it wasn't eve done the way it really was with dirt streets full of horse "gifts" and built on slave labor.

                Compare this to the Wharf.. There is nothing unique or romantic or attractive about pre-fab steel buildings. Whether they did them as is, delapidated, ugly, rusty, unkept... or they did them as they were 80 years ago, ugly, plain, places of work... There is still nothing pretty or romantic. You get mental images of stench, hard work, fish guts, poverty.

                And, BTW, I've also been to the real cannery row in Monterey. I was there about 10 minutes and was ready to head back to the aquarium.... There is nothing there but a few antique and cheap souviner shops..... Why is there not more there to see and do? Because NO ONE goes there. New Orleans people go to.... cannery row is ick.

                With the wharf, the execution certainly could have been much better. However, it NEVER had the chance of coming close to the appeal of NOS. AND, there are SOOOOOO MANNYYYYYY other themes that could have been so much better! Picking "run-down industrial area" was just stupid! They asked "Does it fit the stupid CA theme?" but they never asked "Do people actually want to see this?"

                Sure, maybe there are a few Stienbeck nuts out there that will feel some attachment to his novels or whatever.... but you can't build a theme park for the 1%. 99% are going to see ugly, rusty, delapidated, factories... That is not romantic.


                AND THERE!!!!! I think, is the fatal flaw of DCA's theming.



                Every time they open a new theme park, it draws a croud. Unfortunatly, most of that attendance is just drawn from the other parks. MK opened, and DL's attendance dropped. Epcot opened, and MK's attendance dropped. MGM opened, and MK and Epcot's attendance dropped. It took time for the attendance at the pre-existing parks to recover from the opening of the new gate.

                When DCA was on the drawing board, some MBA in TDA actually believed the crap that is spewed in grad-level marketing classes about market niching and product differentiation. They were focused way too much on NOT stealing DL's audience.

                They slapped on Six Flags Paraidse Pier and HPB to steal SFMM and USH attendance. Then focused on the niches they weren't drawing. YUPies, DINCs, the "sophisticated, artsy-fartsy, trendy, Steinbeck" set. Wharf, vinyard, Puck's and all the entertainment at opening was focused at this "unserved niche".

                Well, they did a 100% awesome job of not stealing attendance from DL. Unfortunatly, they didn't steal from USH or SFMM either. And the artsy-fartsy crowd wasn't about to come to a Disney park......

                As a result of designing a park based on "business rules" and fear of stealing attendance from your other parks, instead of just focusing on building the best park that the most number of guests possible would like,they got a park that they have to give away.



                A big, empty, steel building (hanger) NEVER had the chace of being as much fun as an old cavelry fort with parapits and guard towers..... A run-down industrial area never had a chance of being as cool as early 1800's deep south. Generic Amusement Park Land, with 1 average coaster never had a chance of stealing attendance from SFMM. Farm? No comment.



                And the reason I cut Grizzly Peak some slack.... There aren't giant granite peaks within a couple hours of DCA. None are shaped like a giant wolf.... AND at least the area is pretty and has props to make it feel historic in some way.

                It isn't that Grizzly Peak has a great theme... But it does have a good theme... Which makes it suck FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR less than Six Flags Paradise Pier, Cementdor Falts, farm, vinyard, empty houses, and the delapidated food court.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ah schucks
                  If you are gonna write something so sharp and tactful, you mind explaining yourself? If you are implying, I prefer online association with my friends and family- then sir you don't know me very well or at all and should reserve judgement. This was in bad taste.
                  He's saying you prefer tossing yourself off while looking at internet porn rather than making love to a woman.

                  The implication is that going to a fake vinyard in a theme park is the equivilant to self-abuse while viewing internet porn, while visiting a real vinyard is the equivilant to making love to the real thing.

                  Ditto fake back-lot. Fake ugly airport. Fake mountains. Fake wharf. Fake farm. Fake bay area.......

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by dshimel
                    Let me start with this....

                    Thank you for your well thought out post Mr/Ms Importance.... I appreaciate a post with well reasoned logic that makes me think....

                    That said, you're still wrong about DCA.
                    This is an oxymoronic statement. Why can't you phrase it like "That said, I still have respectivly disagree." This is a debate, no one has to be wrong, it seems to me you loose sight of that and people keep pointing it out and you simply choose to ignore it. Why do you insist on talking down to people? We want to engage you on an intellectual level but you choose to simply label opinons as facts

                    Give me reason to believe you are an authority on the matter and I might accept statements like this. You have yet to provide documentation that you are in fact an authority on the subject of theme parks other than having visited a lot of them.

                    I am sorry I haven't been to as many, I am far younger I believe, and while you were doing that, I was busy traveling the ugly rundown world.






                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by dshimel
                      He's saying you prefer tossing yourself off while looking at internet porn rather than making love to a woman.

                      The implication is that going to a fake vinyard in a theme park is the equivilant to self-abuse while viewing internet porn, while visiting a real vinyard is the equivilant to making love to the real thing.

                      Ditto fake back-lot. Fake ugly airport. Fake mountains. Fake wharf. Fake farm. Fake bay area.......
                      Why for god's sake do you have to be so vulgur? I lack the vocabulary to describe how insensitive, vile, villanous, venomous, treacherous, spineless, juvinille, deliquent and degenerate your comments are becoming.

                      I continue to aim for respect while creating logical arguments, firing back with fun sarcastic replies and yet you choose to debase me as some sexed up freak of nature for liking California and in turn DCA- the comparissions lack any reasoned or logical basis and must stop.






                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ah schucks
                        Why for god's sake do you have to be so vulgur? I lack the vocabulary to describe how insensitive, vile, villanous, venomous, treacherous, spineless, juvinille, deliquent and degenerate your comments are becoming.

                        I continue to aim for respect while creating logical arguments, firing back with fun sarcastic replies and yet you choose to debase me as some sexed up freak of nature for liking California and in turn DCA- the comparissions lack any reasoned or logical basis and must stop.
                        Well, let's face it, people who have nothing to say seem to do the most talking. And people tend to project themselves onto others, making what they say a better reflection of themselves than who they say it about.

                        People will argue that 2+2=5 until they are blue in the face, and then get mad at you if you even suggest it could equal 4. They can talk until the mountains crumble, mostly to drown out the hollowness of their logic. So, just tune them out. They're not sharing ideas, they're talking for the pleasure of hearing their own voice.
                        See, George Lucas? I'm not the only one! [<-- i.e. this is not my site]
                        78 Reasons To Hate Star Wars Episode 1

                        "There are fashions in reading, even in thinking. You don't have to follow them unless you want to."

                        "A lot of young people think the future is closed to them, that everything has been done. This is not so. There are still plenty of avenues to be explored."

                        -- Walt Disney

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ah schucks
                          Why for god's sake do you have to be so vulgur?

                          I was simply giving you the explaination of what Sambo was saying. That is what you asked for, no?

                          You seemed to not understand "online expereince vs. real relationship". Subtlety didn't work... Non-subtle seemed like the alternative that would work.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by dshimel
                            I was simply giving you the explaination of what Sambo was saying. That is what you asked for, no?

                            You seemed to not understand "online expereince vs. real relationship". Subtlety didn't work... Non-subtle seemed like the alternative that would work.
                            You yourself have made the same baseless remarks in similar context- wonder where Sambo picked them up? At least he had the deceny to somewhat apologize, I don't think you have the guts to.






                            Comment


                            • I may be in the minority, but I really enjoy Pacific Wharf. I disagree that it's a bunch of ugly steel buildings. Actually, if the buildings are steel, than the Imagineers did an even better job then I thought, as they definately appear to be brick and wood. I love the way it sits on top of the water, and I think it has a great atmosphere to it. I really feel like I'm at a wharf, and I like all of the different food options. That being said, I agree it needs work as well. Closed restaurants and dead space are a problem. But I just don't see it as a bunch of ugly steel buildings. And true, it brings up mental images of hard work and fish smells. But I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it just really evokes the Northern Californian coastline, which I think is a perfectly fine theme.

                              Also, I just want to point out that the Bay Area is a good 6-7 hour drive from LA, and is not something easily accesible to everybody.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by grvtydefy
                                I may be in the minority, but I really enjoy Pacific Wharf. I disagree that it's a bunch of ugly steel buildings. Actually, if the buildings are steel, than the Imagineers did an even better job then I thought, as they definately appear to be brick and wood. I love the way it sits on top of the water, and I think it has a great atmosphere to it. I really feel like I'm at a wharf, and I like all of the different food options. That being said, I agree it needs work as well. Closed restaurants and dead space are a problem. But I just don't see it as a bunch of ugly steel buildings. And true, it brings up mental images of hard work and fish smells. But I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it just really evokes the Northern Californian coastline, which I think is a perfectly fine theme.

                                Also, I just want to point out that the Bay Area is a good 6-7 hour drive from LA, and is not something easily accesible to everybody.
                                I don't know what you have against gravity, it keeps us from floating off into space!

                                Anyway, you're not in as much of a minority as you think. It's just that those who don't like it seem to be those that whine the loudest. It's a beautiful area, and I just think that it could be better used with rides or attractions. What is there now amounts basically to a high-end equivilent to the "peek-ins" at Knott's. Not horribly exciting, and not much return visit value. I love the feel of the area, but it could host a couple attractions in it's space, while not losing it's charm. It's sort of dead space right now. A prime example of the problems with the park. Beautiful surroundings, true to their theme, and that's it. Throw an attraction or two in there, and you have a totally different experience...
                                Honor those who fall under the sword.
                                But pity the warrior who has slain all his enemies.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Reaver
                                  It's a beautiful area
                                  Truely, beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder, 'cause it looks like cheap, ugly, run-down crap to me.....

                                  http://www.mouseinfo.com/california-...harf/index.php

                                  Comment


                                  • Anyone else hear a broken record player playng the same drivel over and over again, in a nearly forgotten room?
                                    Honor those who fall under the sword.
                                    But pity the warrior who has slain all his enemies.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Reaver
                                      Anyone else hear a broken record player playng the same drivel over and over again, in a nearly forgotten room?

                                      Anyone else hear the pot calling the kettle black?


                                      Quips and jabs aren't going to get me to shut up, so quite with the insults and just keep it on topic.

                                      DCA's themes suck.... What would you replace them with?

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by dshimel
                                        Anyone else hear the pot calling the kettle black?


                                        Quips and jabs aren't going to get me to shut up, so quite with the insults and just keep it on topic.

                                        DCA's themes suck.... What would you replace them with?
                                        Says the man who has slung more mud with far more cutting insults and injury. At least Rever is trying to be funny, you are just being sad and pathetic.

                                        Ugly is opinion. Beautiful is opinon- can we agree to disagree? Is that even possible? or must you be Last Word Larry? Is it possible there is no right or wrong answer? Does it have to be black and white?






                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by ah schucks
                                          Says the man who has slung more mud with far more cutting insults and injury. At least Rever is trying to be funny, you are just being sad and pathetic.

                                          Ugly is opinion. Beautiful is opinon- can we agree to disagree? Is that even possible? or must you be Last Word Larry? Is it possible there is no right or wrong answer? Does it have to be black and white?
                                          What's the topic again?

                                          Oh yeah..... DCA's themes suck hard... What would you replace them with?

                                          Comment

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