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  • #21
    I understand all of that. Walt Disney never wanted the the run-of the mill amusement park..midway attractions in his parks....Paradise Pier is just that!

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Cuzco-topia
      People who hate dca... I wonder, have they really spent time there, or just gone with a heart of dissaproval even before entering?
      Most who hate DCA simply compare it to Disneyland or what they expected and wanted was a Disneyland 2. I personally feel that too often they're so infatuated with Disneyland that they've got their blinders on for anything else.

      I really enjoy Disneyland and it ranks as one of my favorite parks, but at the same time I really like California Adventure as well. It's an outstanding park and probably the most underrated parks in the US. Unfortunately, some refuse to see what it has to offer. Having been to more than 75 different amusement parks in the US I can say that it is a great park and one of the best parks that Disney owns. It's also got so much potential, but on the other hand it's already leaps ahead of Animal Kingdom and Disney MGM Studios in terms of what it offers.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by cfparkmanager
        Most who hate DCA simply compare it to Disneyland or what they expected and wanted was a Disneyland 2. I personally feel that too often they're so infatuated with Disneyland that they've got their blinders on for anything else.

        I really enjoy Disneyland and it ranks as one of my favorite parks, but at the same time I really like California Adventure as well. It's an outstanding park and probably the most underrated parks in the US. Unfortunately, some refuse to see what it has to offer. Having been to more than 75 different amusement parks in the US I can say that it is a great park and one of the best parks that Disney owns. It's also got so much potential, but on the other hand it's already leaps ahead of Animal Kingdom and Disney MGM Studios in terms of what it offers.
        THANK YOU. Yes, people tend to compare. It's like comparing an aquarium to a zoo. I don't think dca is run of the mill as some may think. If that's the case, many attraction in disneyland could be considered that as well.
        Marge: Barnacle Bill's Home Pregnancy Test? Homer, shouldn't we have gone with a better-known brand?
        Homer: But Marge, this one came with a corn-cob pipe!
        Marge: [reading from the test box] "Ahoy, Maties! If the water turns blue, a baby for you! If purple ye see, no baby thar be!"
        Homer: So, which is it? Blue or purple?
        Marge: Pink.
        Homer: D'oh!
        Marge: "If ye test should fail, to a doctor set sail!"

        Comment


        • #24
          I agree that Paradise Pier is a wonderful expression of CA history and it is not the pier or current attraction on the Pier that are awful but all the rides between Golden Dreams and the Maliuboomer.

          Frankly the Zepher (while terriably beautiful and historical) is weak and manages to be shut down more often than Anna Nicole Smith at a Sizzler.

          The rest of the "carnie rides" and water playground are fillers that are lame compared to Bug's Life Village.

          Lastly Mullholland Maddness- a ride dedicated for a lame rode in LA, which seems forced into the corner of that part of the park to acknowledge the vast freeway, rode and automobile infrastructure of CA. Get rid of that and all those lame restraunts and shops and turn that area into an expansion of Grizzle River- a perfect place for a Miner's ride, perhaps based on the same or similar ride technology used on "Journey to the Center of the Earth" in Disney Tokyo.

          On the water front side I am still open to suggestions- the light and fountain show would be amazing but would require draining the lagoon to install and worries me that dark water would be shoot into the air- do you wanna be sprayed by that dark water if the winds pick up? Besides the fountains in Bellagio gave the engineers a lot of headaches.






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          • #25
            Originally posted by Reaver
            I know. I think DCA has become a love it or hate it subject to many Disney fans, and that's sad. I like the park, personally. I don't love it, but I don't dislike it. It has it's faults and it's strengths. It has a LOT of potential. And Matt is at the helm now, so I'm hopeful. Let's not sign it off just yet...
            The DCA haters are not Disney Fans, they're most often Disneyland fans. I wonder if the DCA haters like Animal Kingdom, EPCOT and Disney MGM Studios.

            If you like those "other" Orlando parks then I really don't understand why you dislike DCA. It makes no sense since the three "non Magic Kingdom" parks in Orlando are so like DCA, but with similiar and different themes.

            IMO, the worst Disney park, but still a good US amusement park is EPCOT. Future World is so outdated and lacks the modern ride technology and entertainment that we expect today. It's a relic. World Showcase on the other hand is a really poorly done. If you've visited the actual countries that are represented there then you know what a terrible job Disney did. It doesn't even come close to replacing the opportunity of seeing these places in person. The highlighs of EPCOT for me are Test Track and Illuminations.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by pyrateslife4me84
              I wouldn't take out the lagoon...it has so much wasted potential. I would put something like the Fountains at Bellagio in Paradise Bay and have them going off every 15 minutes all day. They could, of course, set them to California-style music.

              Paradise Pier's lights at night with fountains shooting water up 200 feet...I think that would be stunning. And it's far more practical than a fireworks show over Paradise Bay.

              Replace the carny games with a LIM launched shuttle coaster (i.e. goes forwards, up a tall spike, then falls backwards and goes through the track again). I have envisioned a way to increase capacity on this type of ride (that usually only allows one train on the track at once), by having two switch tracks, one in the station and one before the launch platform, such that 3 trains could be on the track at once. The train would exit the loading platform, shift over to the launch track and go through the ride, then return to an unloading platform, then shift back to the loading platform. This would allow one train to be going through the ride, one to be unloading, and one to be loading at any given time.
              The Fountain idea you mention is a really great idea! I'd love it to be an "event show" so I'm not sure if it should go off every 15 minutes, but rather maybe once or twice during the day and once or twice at night with a different day and night show.

              Your idea of an "impulse" coaster is interesting and I have seen a plan for a two train version using a transfer track to move the trains. One runs while the other loads/unloads. An impulse coaster is a little too extreme for Disney and the challenge would not be fitting the ride in that space, but what to do once you remove all of the buildings since guests would be able to see backstage.

              Comment


              • #27
                Most of DCA is window dressing....

                There is an old song called "It Aint The Same Thing..." There is a line "Invite me over for Chicken.. offer a Breast or a Wing? Ask a hungry man, it aint the same thing..."

                It is Eisner's park... Ironically will likely remain forever a testiment to his insufferable will...
                Check out my other blog:

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                • #28
                  I have certain expectations of a theme park....

                  1) It should be FUN. The number 1 question regarding any theme or attraction should be, is this going to be fun to be in/on... Not "does it enhance the theme"? Not "Does it look pretty all lit up at night from a distance?" Not "Does it accuratly reflect the history and culture?" Not "Is it educational?"

                  Is it FUN?

                  2) Show me things I really, really want to see, but can't easily see in real life. Don't show me a farm... Something everyone could easily see, just about everywhere, but don't bother becuause it is way to boring. Don't show me an ugly run-down airport or industrial area. Don't show me pre-engineered building. Don't show me a geneirc, unthemed amusement park land filled with generic, themed amusment park rides. No vinyards, factory tours, tractor displays, Circuit City, strip malls, history lessons.... Nothing "real" that I can easily see for free just about anywhere.


                  There you go... My 2, I'm sure "Totally Unreasonable" expectations... Fun things I want to see and do but can't easily see or do outside of a theme park.

                  The problem with DCA is not execution.... Cementdor Flats is about a good an "ugly run-down airport" as could possibly be done. The Wharf food court looks a lot like the real Monterey Bay Cannery Row. The farm really looked and felt like a farm.

                  Execution was great.

                  The problem was they viloated the 2 fundimental rules of theme parks. Not fun. Stuff people can easily see and do, but generally don't bother because it is boring or ugly.

                  I don't demand a Disney theme park be crammed full of Disney characters. A park full of things like Pirates and Mansion and Space Mt and Matterhorn and GRR and Soarin' and ToT and Indianna Jones and Country Bears and Star Tours and..... That would be awesome.

                  However, I think DCA is even less likely to get that kind of makeover than the Disney Character makeover.


                  And I've been to DCA many times and spent quite a bit of time there.... After all, it is free with my DL annual pass. It is a nice, generic amusement park with several nice rides and shows.... but it near-utterly lacks "Disney Magic". That certain something special, fantastic, magical that makes it worth spending $53 a day just to be there.

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                  • #29
                    Well-said, dshimel. I agree.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Paradise Pier is a pretty good area of the park with the water if you ask me (though the water does eat up alot of attraction space)

                      Paradise Pier needs:

                      The Little Mermaid Darkride
                      http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=773

                      Pier Lagoon Show
                      http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=798


                      As For RnRC
                      http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=271

                      and for the farm since it was also brought up
                      http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=1041


                      I think that DCA needs to balance California with the Characters, it needs to be an imaginative look at California that also allows Disney to draw from some of it's own unique worlds and characters.

                      I think one of the reasons Disneyland does so well is because it balances things very well
                      "We all have sparks, imagination! it's how our minds... create creations!"

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by dshimel
                        The problem with DCA is not execution.... Cementdor Flats is about a good an "ugly run-down airport" as could possibly be done.
                        Uggggggg for the last time- find me a clean good looking little airport and I will show you an exception- airports are supposed to be dirty and grimy and aviation is such a HUGE part of CA history.

                        I liked a lot of what you wrote, its true- but as the son of a pilot I take some offense to all the Soarin bashin and Condor Flats hatting comments. Its a good area, well built and that is a great rendition of an airport.

                        I would have liked to seen a more "San Diego" Naval approach to the aviation end of things- such as a Fightertown USA. That said giving any credit to the rich history of aviation is worth of appreciation. So grrrrrrr.






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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by dshimel
                          I have certain expectations of a theme park....

                          1) It should be FUN. The number 1 question regarding any theme or attraction should be, is this going to be fun to be in/on... Not "does it enhance the theme"? Not "Does it look pretty all lit up at night from a distance?" Not "Does it accuratly reflect the history and culture?" Not "Is it educational?"
                          I'm glad you weren't around when DL opened. Walt was all about fun mixed with education. I'd hate to see what you said about Walt's original "educational" park before the e-tickets went in...
                          Honor those who fall under the sword.
                          But pity the warrior who has slain all his enemies.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by ah schucks
                            I would have liked to seen a more "San Diego" Naval approach to the aviation end of things- such as a Fightertown USA. That said giving any credit to the rich history of aviation is worth of appreciation. So grrrrrrr.
                            I agree completely! Maybe some North Island influence. Heck, most of DT San Diego is built around Naval bases. The sub base, the Missle boat base, 3 carriers home based there, including the Reagan... I'd love to see some of that. Of course, Disney has to be careful about "endorsing" the military in their parks, but it could be done...
                            Honor those who fall under the sword.
                            But pity the warrior who has slain all his enemies.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by ah schucks
                              Uggggggg for the last time- find me a clean good looking little airport and I will show you an exception- airports are supposed to be dirty and grimy and aviation is such a HUGE part of CA history.

                              I liked a lot of what you wrote, its true- but as the son of a pilot I take some offense to all the Soarin bashin and Condor Flats hatting comments. Its a good area, well built and that is a great rendition of an airport.

                              I would have liked to seen a more "San Diego" Naval approach to the aviation end of things- such as a Fightertown USA. That said giving any credit to the rich history of aviation is worth of appreciation. So grrrrrrr.
                              as far as dirty areas go, even DisneySea and Animal Kingdom have their areas that intentionaly look old or run down

                              not every park needs to be Disneyland and idealize everything
                              "We all have sparks, imagination! it's how our minds... create creations!"

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by dshimel
                                The problem with DCA is not execution.... Cementdor Flats is about a good an "ugly run-down airport" as could possibly be done. The Wharf food court looks a lot like the real Monterey Bay Cannery Row. The farm really looked and felt like a farm.

                                Execution was great.

                                The problem was they viloated the 2 fundimental rules of theme parks. Not fun. Stuff people can easily see and do, but generally don't bother because it is boring or ugly.

                                I don't demand a Disney theme park be crammed full of Disney characters. A park full of things like Pirates and Mansion and Space Mt and Matterhorn and GRR and Soarin' and ToT and Indianna Jones and Country Bears and Star Tours and..... That would be awesome.

                                However, I think DCA is even less likely to get that kind of makeover than the Disney Character makeover.

                                And I've been to DCA many times and spent quite a bit of time there.... After all, it is free with my DL annual pass. It is a nice, generic amusement park with several nice rides and shows.... but it near-utterly lacks "Disney Magic". That certain something special, fantastic, magical that makes it worth spending $53 a day just to be there.
                                You're contradicting yourself here. You say the execution was great, but you dislike the themeing work at DCA? Not fun? Themeing creates the magic and this park screams Disney all over it. No other theme park operator builds theme parks like this. Without the elements you describe the park would not feel complete and it would not appear like a Disney Theme Park should.

                                Further, what is "Disney Magic"? Such a commonly used phrase, but yet does it really apply to all of their theme parks? I look often for "Disney Magic" inside an attraction or possibly the extension of their animated characters into the park in a fantasy setting, which DCA was not build around, but that's about it.

                                Then you mention a handful of great Disney attractions and claim you'd like similiar caliber attractions at DCA, but isn't it completely unreasonable to expect the park to have a full slate of these rides when it opens?

                                DCA got more of these high-quality attractions then either EPCOT, Animal Kingdom or Disney MGM got when they opened. High-quality Disney attractions at DCA are: It's A Bugs Life, Muppet Vision 3D, The Animation Attraction, Grizzly River Rapids, Soarin' Over California, Twilight Zone Tower of Terror, and California Screamin'. The other attractions like the rides in Bug's Land and Orange Stinger round out the type of attractions in Disneyland like Dumbo, Rocket Jets, etc. They offer something in addition to to keep people busy.

                                Rule #2 may apply in a fantasy park, but it is not a rule for a park based on an actual area. Further, Disney Parks and Disneyland has had informational, education attractions in the park for as long as its been open. The extenstion of such attractions to DCA is not to be unepxpected. The tours and informational films are a contiuation of this long Disney park tradition. EPCOT is entirely based on this so I'd assume that you think it is not fun as well. There is nothing wrong with the farm either. Not every inch of the park property is going to be filled with an attraction like Pirates or Splash Mountain. What's wrong with a farm inbetween the two.

                                I'd suggest that you look around Disneyland. Look at all the themeing. Look at the package of attractions. Was Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln fun?

                                Finally, Condor Flats is not based on an ugly, run-down airport. It is based on California's rich history of flight and the theme is designed to look like an early air field with neighboring hanger. It's very well done. Didn't you watch the Aviator?

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Reaver
                                  I agree completely! Maybe some North Island influence. Heck, most of DT San Diego is built around Naval bases. The sub base, the Missle boat base, 3 carriers home based there, including the Reagan... I'd love to see some of that. Of course, Disney has to be careful about "endorsing" the military in their parks, but it could be done...
                                  You know that would be an excellent replacement on that side of Paradise Pier I am advocating they rip out. (By the Zephers, the Underwater themed kiddie rides and the Orange Blossom)

                                  They could built a miniture air carrier and purchase old jets that kids and people could climp and take photos with. I know it is out a ways from Condor Flats but San Diego and CA's rich naval and miltary history can be represented in a family park with respect and dignity.






                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by ah schucks
                                    You know that would be an excellent replacement on that side of Paradise Pier I am advocating they rip out. (By the Zephers, the Underwater themed kiddie rides and the Orange Blossom)

                                    They could built a miniture air carrier and purchase old jets that kids and people could climp and take photos with. I know it is out a ways from Condor Flats but San Diego and CA's rich naval and miltary history can be represented in a family park with respect and dignity.
                                    I for one would love to see that. I was a Navy kid, and spent most of my life on bases. The worst thing about turning 18 for me was losing my militery ID that gave me access to any base... In high shool I'd be at Miramar watching the touch and gos or down at North Island touring the carriers all the time. I miss that. I'd love to see some of that brought into the park. They could have the Blue Angels there for the opening! How sweet would THAT be?!
                                    Honor those who fall under the sword.
                                    But pity the warrior who has slain all his enemies.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by ah schucks
                                      Uggggggg for the last time- find me a clean good looking little airport and I will show you an exception- airports are supposed to be dirty and grimy and aviation is such a HUGE part of CA history.
                                      Which is exaclty why the problem isn't in the execution! The execution was perfect.... The problem is the theme.... The picked an ugly, boring, mundane theme that few would enjoy, and executed it perfectly.

                                      Huge part of California history? Who freakin' cares???!??!?!?!?!?!?!!

                                      Is if fun? Is it something or somewhere you've dreamed of being able to see or do, but just can't realistically do it outside of a theme park? These are the things that are important to building a magical Disney theme park experience!

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Reaver
                                        I'm glad you weren't around when DL opened. Walt was all about fun mixed with education. I'd hate to see what you said about Walt's original "educational" park before the e-tickets went in...
                                        He was a creative genious, but not infallable. 50 years of theme park history has shown the fun works, the mixed with education just means it will have to be redone every 10 years.... that doesn't work.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by dshimel
                                          Which is exaclty why the problem isn't in the execution! The execution was perfect.... The problem is the theme.... The picked an ugly, boring, mundane theme that few would enjoy, and executed it perfectly.

                                          Huge part of California history? Who freakin' cares???!??!?!?!?!?!?!!

                                          Is if fun? Is it something or somewhere you've dreamed of being able to see or do, but just can't realistically do it outside of a theme park? These are the things that are important to building a magical Disney theme park experience!
                                          That's not a fair generalization. How many people get to go to a true air field? I don't think I've ever been, other than normal commercial airports like burbank and lax. I bet quite a few people care AND find this a very fun and imaginitive area of the park. (there is a thread out there that posts everyone's fav area of dca...this area ranked pretty high).
                                          Marge: Barnacle Bill's Home Pregnancy Test? Homer, shouldn't we have gone with a better-known brand?
                                          Homer: But Marge, this one came with a corn-cob pipe!
                                          Marge: [reading from the test box] "Ahoy, Maties! If the water turns blue, a baby for you! If purple ye see, no baby thar be!"
                                          Homer: So, which is it? Blue or purple?
                                          Marge: Pink.
                                          Homer: D'oh!
                                          Marge: "If ye test should fail, to a doctor set sail!"

                                          Comment

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