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  • Originally posted by cellarhound
    I thought about this to a great extent... there were six flags to fly over California too... Spain, Russia, Mexico, Engand, California Republic, and USA...

    Too bad people think so narrowly on California History....
    Yes apparently if you enjoy the rich history of California, the mix of culture and the beach you have some sort of sexual deviation.

    *slams the sarcastic button on his keyboard*






    Comment


    • I still say rip out the gates and make it one big park. DCA can become "California land", and everything can be enjoyed by daily visitors for 1 low price!

      Essentially, that's what AP's and other park-hoppers do now...
      "I could never convince the financiers that Disneyland was feasible because dreams offer too little collateral"

      --Walt Disney

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ah schucks
        Thank You Jspider!
        your welcome

        what'd I do? :confused:
        "We all have sparks, imagination! it's how our minds... create creations!"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ah schucks
          Thank you for reminding me of Great America and giving additional evidence I did not posess. I am not as well traveled or read as certain posters it would seem. So sincerely thank you.
          It has been a while but it had Yankee Harbor, Yukon Teratory, Sort of a Downtown-Mainstreet like area, State Fair area, a Orleans Place... It wasn't as well themed as DL... But it had it's charms... Including covered bridges, working lighthouses, crafters who made custom totem poles, a bar that sold root beer and slid the frosty mugs, and arcades with vintage pinball machines...
          Check out my other blog:

          Comment


          • There you go Cellerhound- thats what DCA needs handcrafters, blowing glass, making art, carving wood, painting murals---All over CA people have made there way handcrafting goods why not tie more of that into DCA. I think thats the big missing key from Main Street versus DCA's main drag.

            If that had vendors with street carts and exhibits and such all along there it would be far more interesting.






            Comment


            • Originally posted by ah schucks
              There you go Cellerhound- thats what DCA needs handcrafters, blowing glass, making art, carving wood, painting murals---All over CA people have made there way handcrafting goods why not tie more of that into DCA. I think thats the big missing key from Main Street versus DCA's main drag.

              If that had vendors with street carts and exhibits and such all along there it would be far more interesting.
              How about people at the entrance to MM selling oranges or flowers...
              Honor those who fall under the sword.
              But pity the warrior who has slain all his enemies.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Reaver
                How about people at the entrance to MM selling oranges or flowers...
                :lol:
                Marge: Barnacle Bill's Home Pregnancy Test? Homer, shouldn't we have gone with a better-known brand?
                Homer: But Marge, this one came with a corn-cob pipe!
                Marge: [reading from the test box] "Ahoy, Maties! If the water turns blue, a baby for you! If purple ye see, no baby thar be!"
                Homer: So, which is it? Blue or purple?
                Marge: Pink.
                Homer: D'oh!
                Marge: "If ye test should fail, to a doctor set sail!"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Reaver
                  How about people at the entrance to MM selling oranges or flowers...
                  Why not sounds good to me! Flowers were totally under represented in DCA- no reference to the Carlsbad Flower Fields (they are starting to bloom!)






                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by dshimel
                    Which is exaclty why the problem isn't in the execution! The execution was perfect.... The problem is the theme.... The picked an ugly, boring, mundane theme that few would enjoy, and executed it perfectly.

                    Huge part of California history? Who freakin' cares???!??!?!?!?!?!?!!

                    Is if fun? Is it something or somewhere you've dreamed of being able to see or do, but just can't realistically do it outside of a theme park? These are the things that are important to building a magical Disney theme park experience!
                    Who freakin' cares? I do for one. I care about California History and I find it interesting.

                    Few would enjoy, who are you talking about. I enjoy the ride in that area very much, but I can't say that there is a themed area of Disneyland that I find fun. The atmosphere is just one part of the big picture and Condor Flats is perfect.

                    Not every Disney theme park is built around fantasy which you seem to imply is a must. In fact, a good majority of the elements in Disney parks are not.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by cfparkmanager
                      Who freakin' cares? I do for one. I care about California History and I find it interesting.

                      Few would enjoy, who are you talking about. I enjoy the ride in that area very much, but I can't say that there is a themed area of Disneyland that I find fun. The atmosphere is just one part of the big picture and Condor Flats is perfect.

                      Not every Disney theme park is built around fantasy which you seem to imply is a must. In fact, a good majority of the elements in Disney parks are not.
                      Agreed. Thank you.






                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dshimel
                        No, you're missing the point. They did "ugly and boring" and good as they could possibly be done...... But they're still ugly and boring.

                        Let's put it this way....

                        Let's say management decided to do land-fill-land (or if you will, city-dump-land). Now let's say the Imagineers did the absolute recreation of a city dump... The look and feel and smell of real trach... Real trash truck coming in and dumping trash. Tractors running around smashing it down and covering it with dirt....

                        That would be a city-dump-themed-land that was executed as well as ANY city-dump-themed-land could possible be themed.

                        But the theme would still SUCK!!!!!!

                        Well, Cementdor flat is the best "ugly, boring, run-down-little-airport" that the Imagineers could possibly have created.... But it still sucks... It is something I never wanted to see because it is ugly and boring.

                        The managers screwed up in picking the themes.... It wasn't the Imagineers that screwed up the execution!
                        That is simply your opinion, but you state it like it is everyone elses opinion.

                        I for one LIKE, very much Condor Flats and the ride in that area. I don't find it ugly or boring at all. Tomorrowland is ugly and boring again IN MY OPINION. Two, California is the most interesting state in the country which I think is statement that most would agree with, but not all. I personally think it makes a great theme for a theme park, even in its own state.


                        Transporting me out of where I am, and taking me somewhere else, that I can't easly get to in reality, and letting me do things I can't easily do in reality.

                        Fun, Exotic, ILLUSION!
                        Again, for a fantasy theme park. That is not the case for a reality based attraction, which there are too many to name at all of the parks across the country.


                        AND, that is the point. DisCo was stupider than stupid to theme a park to real stuff, real close, that people can eaily see, but don't bother becuase it sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                        You are so naive. You just said the state of California sucks. Oh yes, it does suck so much that people all over the country dream of living here. That we deal with population issues because people like living in a place that sucks. Dude, your not sharing the opinion of most here, you'e in the minority.

                        Disney was stupid to theme something after real stuff. You might want to say that to Walt's face. What is Main Street, Tomorrowland, New Orleans Square and Adventureland. Most of the theme in those areas is based on real stuff. Do you think the animals in the Jungle Cruise are some fantasy. I hate to break it to you, but they're waiting to eat you in Africa.

                        The only area of Disneyland that is entirely based on your #2 rule is FANTASYLAND. I hope its your favorite area, because if it isn't I'd be totally shocked.

                        Why don't you tell the folks at Busch Gardens Williamsburg that themeing their park around European countries (real countries) was stupid.

                        It isn't news to me that they totally ignored my rule 2.... It is as obvious as the nose on my face.. and I have a big nose....
                        Your rule #2 doesn't really exist. It's your rule, but no one else in the amusement industry is aware of it.

                        What I'm saying is they the park has been a flop, not becuase of execution of the stupid, stupid, theme, but BECAUSE of the selection of the STUPID theme in the first place.
                        The park is a huge flop. I think I remember reading on here how DCA was in the top 10 for attendance last year in the US. How it sees more visitors than two other neighboring successful theme parks that I'm familiar with Six Flags Magic Mountain, Universal Studios Hollywood and Knott's Berry Farm.

                        Some flop that is. YOu just hate hearing that California Adventure could possibly be a success.





                        And Epcot is getting an enema right now to flush out that crap.

                        Motion is replaced with Test Track. Horrzons with Mission:Space. Land is getting Soarin'. Seas got Crush. It helps, but Epcot has a LONG way to go before all this non-fun is washed out!



                        The sky is green.[/QUOTE]

                        Comment


                        • You tell em CFParkManager! I have your back ten fold!






                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by dshimel
                            I was born in West Covina. Grew up in San Dimas (Graduated from San Dimas High the year before "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" was set there.

                            I lived in CA until I was 23 when the Navy transferred me to Hawaii. I then lived in Colorado for a decade and am now in Phoenix (mostly because of job and cost of living), but travel to Southern Californina about once a month on average... Sometimed more, sometimes less.

                            I'm a SoCal native, all my family still lives there, and I love SoCal as much as the next person.

                            My beef is exactly what I stated.... A theme park full of ugly, boring themes of things that I could easily do elsewhere for free, if they weren't so ugly or boring.
                            The IQ of this boad just fell of the scale. I hate when people start to justify their loosing argument by trying to say they're smart. Are you going to post your GPA next?


                            I have... In every Six Flags amusement park I've been to. GRR is a fun ride, but it is generic.... Just like every raft-ride-themed-raft-ride in every non-Disney theme park...
                            This statement alone tells me that you "DON'T" know what you're talking about. You are saying GRR is as generic as any other SF raft ride? I can't believe you'd say that. Some of us know what were talking about and that is a loosing statement in a debate.

                            Dude, GRR is one of the best themed raft rides in the country. The only one that is better IMO is the one at Universal's Islands of Adventure.

                            Oh, but you'll argue it is just a typical off the shelf amusement park ride. Well aren't almost all of them at Disney.

                            Disney Ride and it's equivalent Amusement Park "Generic" Ride

                            Dumbo = Rocket ride, with the rocket jet's replaced by fat elephants
                            Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, Snow White, Pinocchio = Simple Carnival Dark Ride
                            Pirates of the Carribean = Flume Ride
                            Matterhorn = Tubular Tracked Toboggan Roller Coaster
                            Big Thunder Mountain Railroad = Mine Train Coaster
                            Rocket Jets = Rocket Ride (God forbid Disney have TWO of the same rides in his park).

                            So what! There are more I could name, but I'm bored.


                            ToT is great... Not quite as good as MGM's since MGM starts you out in a run down service elevator, then transports you to the guest elevator back in the 1930s..... DCA's starts you out in a service elevator and ends in the same service elevaor.... That REALLY reduces the magic that the MGM version has... But that is another topic.
                            The one in Florida I prefer as well, but DCA's is not a bad attraction. Ask guests who ride it, but haven't had the luxury to go to Orlando and they don't see anything wrong.


                            But why was it removed? You only learn something the first time. After that, you're just hearing/seeing something that you already know. These rides gorw old and tired, and need replaced in 10 years... And Disney is sick and tired of having to replace rides every 10 years. That is why they're removing all the educational rides from Epcot and replacing them with Fun rides instead.
                            Mission Space
                            Soarin'

                            Both educational... Test Track as well.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by dshimel
                              It is the opinion of DisCo. This is why they added Space Mt and Star Tours.... Non-education, pure-fun-fiction rides. It is why DLP does not have a Tomorrowland. It is why they attempted to remake Tomorrowland with TL'98 (A project that was the victim of budget, not theme).

                              My opinion that Walt's idea for Tomorrowland is not "just my opinion". It is the only conclusion supported by 50 years of amusement park data. Educational rides age poorly and need to be replaced frequently. This makes them non-ideal since MAX-PROFIT is the ideal, and max-profit is not acheived when attractions must be replaced frequently.
                              You're starting speak like your the authority and that is what is pissing me off. I can respect your opinions, but I don't appreciate comments like "It is the opinion of DisCo." BS... Space Mountain and Star Tours were part of the natural evolution of the theme park and say nothing about the success or failure of educational attractions. Further, not every Disneyland park is the same and I think that has more to do with why DLP doesn't have a Tomorrowland than anything else. Florida doesn't have a New Orleans Square, but is it the opinion of DisCo that it was a failure. I doubt it.

                              Theme park by most standards have to reinvent themselves every few years by addding new attractions to keep the offerrings fresh and to make guests want to return. Disney has the luxury of being able to push out the reinvention time to a longer period, but they to have to do it as well. It says nothing about educational rides aging poorly or needing to be replaced frequently.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by cfparkmanager
                                You're starting speak like your the authority and that is what is pissing me off. I can respect your opinions, but I don't appreciate comments like "It is the opinion of DisCo." BS... Space Mountain and Star Tours were part of the natural evolution of the theme park and say nothing about the success or failure of educational attractions. Further, not every Disneyland park is the same and I think that has more to do with why DLP doesn't have a Tomorrowland than anything else. Florida doesn't have a New Orleans Square, but is it the opinion of DisCo that it was a failure. I doubt it.

                                Theme park by most standards have to reinvent themselves every few years by addding new attractions to keep the offerrings fresh and to make guests want to return. Disney has the luxury of being able to push out the reinvention time to a longer period, but they to have to do it as well. It says nothing about educational rides aging poorly or needing to be replaced frequently.
                                It is funny, I have been reading about it, and it seemed that DLP was built with a cultural understanding... Tomorrowland was something that might not be appreciated...

                                What I don't like is the Post-modernism in what Tomorrowland has been saying recently... "We are at the end of history and the future is now." is a post-modern theme... Star Tours is Science Fantasy... Buzz Lightyear is a toy - a means for Consumer Products to sell Buzz Lightyear wiggits... Space Mountain is science fantasy... Autopia is Children living out their dreams of the imediate future... Innovations is an exploration of science of today...

                                What is the message?

                                There is no science fact left to explore? Only what we can sell...
                                Check out my other blog:

                                Comment


                                • cf, your posts rule this thread! If there was any way to get through diamond-hard, ultra-thick skull of a certain other poster, you'd have it. I'd tell you not to waste your time, but I love your retorts too much! Bravo!
                                  Honor those who fall under the sword.
                                  But pity the warrior who has slain all his enemies.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by cellarhound
                                    It is funny, I have been reading about it, and it seemed that DLP was built with a cultural understanding... Tomorrowland was something that might not be appreciated...

                                    What I don't like is the Post-modernism in what Tomorrowland has been saying recently... "We are at the end of history and the future is now." is a post-modern theme... Star Tours is Science Fantasy... Buzz Lightyear is a toy - a means for Consumer Products to sell Buzz Lightyear wiggits... Space Mountain is science fantasy... Autopia is Children living out their dreams of the imediate future... Innovations is an exploration of science of today...

                                    What is the message?

                                    There is no science fact left to explore? Only what we can sell...

                                    hey I like Sci Fi and Sci Fantasy (technicaly Buzz isn't just a toy he's a toy being represented as another form of Science Fantasy)

                                    Science fact is debatable, I do wish they'd take a more Star Trek approach to things too bad they can't work with paramount
                                    "We all have sparks, imagination! it's how our minds... create creations!"

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by JoeCool
                                      The worst part of DCA is Paradise Pier. Screamin can stay but I was in charge. I would gut Paradise Pier. Fill up the Lagoon and get rid of all the attractions and shops and start from the beginning again. It looks so cheap.
                                      I would bring the Aerosmith Rock and Roll coaster from MGM for a start.
                                      I also would change the name of the land as well. Any ideas for attractions and a new name?
                                      beach instead of boardwalk. I know cali has some boardwalks but it reminds me more of east coast. and wasnt walt against the whole "fair"
                                      type of idea.
                                      How much longer will it take
                                      For the world to see.
                                      We should learn to live
                                      And simply let it be.
                                      Bloodstone, bloodstone.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Metal God
                                        beach instead of boardwalk. I know cali has some boardwalks but it reminds me more of east coast. and wasnt walt against the whole "fair"
                                        type of idea.
                                        actualy there was one point were Walt did consider having a boardwalk area put in Disneyland

                                        and WDI has been looking at boardwalk areas for a long time before DCA, they even wanted to put one into DisneySeas at one point

                                        DCA was just the perfect opportuinity for them to do it

                                        I don't think it's neccesarily an east coast pier it's just a collection of ideas and concepts from all piers that was combined and cleand up into what it is today, sadly they forgot about aging it to give the since of time travel or soemthing and just made it overly modern, I wouldn't even mind if it was themed to a recently refurbished pier, but it comes off as just being overly modern rather then recently refurbished (too bad, I wonder how much junk they even could have imported from real closed Piers or something)
                                        "We all have sparks, imagination! it's how our minds... create creations!"

                                        Comment


                                        • Disney Ride and it's equivalent Amusement Park "Generic" Ride

                                          Dumbo = Rocket ride, with the rocket jet's replaced by fat elephants
                                          Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, Snow White, Pinocchio = Simple Carnival Dark Ride
                                          Pirates of the Carribean = Flume Ride
                                          Matterhorn = Tubular Tracked Toboggan Roller Coaster
                                          Big Thunder Mountain Railroad = Mine Train Coaster
                                          Rocket Jets = Rocket Ride (God forbid Disney have TWO of the same rides in his park).
                                          Ok first off you cant count Matterhorn, it was anything but off the shelf, it was the FIRST tubular steel coaster and had many innovations involved. Much of its components may seem common place today, but beleive it or not even the nylon wheels were an innovation specific to this ride.

                                          As for the other rides, the point is they are not just plain off the shelf rides; they are old ideas elevated to a new art form, pirates is far and away more than just a flume ride. The real big point here is that just "good" was never good enough with the old rides every itty bitty small tiny detail makes up a larger picture of near perfection. In fact Walt himself was never satisfied with his rides, he was constantly adding little new things on to them. You can bet your booty Walt would not let a sparse looking ride like GRR just sit as is for 4 years, he would ride the thing, and keep thinking of ways to improve it, to give a complete experience you wouldnt even come close to being able to witness anywhere else. I am sorry but if you think GRR is unique or well themed you really need to get out more and visit other parks across the country, or at least research them indepth. Dollywood has a far better raft ride. Magic Mountain's raft ride is pretty comparable the only difference is Disney made theirs elevated into a mountain, and added some semi theming for the que and lift very comparable to anything you would see in the old days of Knotts, or Magic Mountain (yes in the older days Magic Mountain did have some nice landscaping and theming).
                                          Faded lifevests, rafts and sunglasses sitting on rocks do not make a theme.

                                          Dont get me started on Paradise Pier and condor flats both also very incomplete in theme. Yes Walt MIGHT have opened things this sparsly out of money necessity, but he would have never just let them sit for 4 years without adding improvements to them. He was never satisfied with anything he did, everything had to be added on and made better over the years or removed unlike the current owners of the store, he never was one to rest on his laurels. Not to mention the HUGE amount of research that went into the old rides before they were even thought of being built, especially research into the theming. Paradise pier is hardly even a "sketch" of a real turn of the century amusement park its really pretty pathetic considering what they could have done.

                                          Said it before I will say it again; soarin' que is a costco warehouse with pictures on the walls. Its nothing like a real hangar, for crying out loud shouldnt there at least be AIRPLANES in there? tools? engines? personel lockers even??? Sounds that at least allude to a hangar???? Anything at all to let us know people actually work in this place on airplanes or with them???? Its a glorified costco warehouse building with no carry over of theming in really any of the details, and even sadder still its been sitting the same way for 4 years now with no addittions.

                                          I could maybe excuse DCA opening as it did, but there is no excuse whatsoever for the place to have no real theming addittions to the existing infrastructures four years later.

                                          Comment

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