Jim Hill Disneyland Tours Cancelled by Disneyland Security

[Importance]

Full story here: The gag's on me

While DL is fully within it rights to do so, I'm sorry to see it happen. I've never taken one of JH's tours, but they sounded much more interesting than many of the tours DL offers itself. Ah well.

JH does promise an audio version of his tour for CD ... I'll most likely get a copy and try it with my iPod.

[dramaqueen]

I have personally never liked Jim Hill that much and since its private property, the resort was well within it rights to ask him to stop. It is obvious why this would go against the interests of DL. And he's never even taken the Walt tour? Seems like that makes him less than qualified to give his own tours. Just my opinion though, I am sure there are people who like this guy and that's cool too.

[figment1986]

Think of it like this.... It was a mistake that happened somehow... a few people tagged onto the tour thinking it is a different tour and ruined it for some..

but created the CD hope for all...

Now.. is he banned from the park.. cause i dont remember him charging for the tours..

[Cousin Orville]

Interesting. I recall various organized tour groups showing up and leading their minions around the park, the leader hoisting some sort of follow me flag or banner.
I'm sure they say something to their group. I think it is a bit short sighted for the park to assume that those people Jim brought out there weren't spending any money and would have shown up anyway that day and taken a typical tour. Jim brought them attendence!!! Possibly at regular price. They should embrace Jim and give him a group sales pitch and hope he brings more guests. Do they really think he's making a fortune on this? They get more gross profit from the Food, Merch and parking than he ever would.

The takeaway here is that the existing park tour is not filling the need in some way and there is a demand for what Jim is doing in his "tone of voice". The notion of competition in this arena could be good in that they would make their tours richer. Having never taken one, it's hard for me to say. George Lucas does not sue fans for making negative Star Wars spoof films, instead he gives them awards and galvanizes them into loyal supporters. Disney should learn from this approach.

I'm half ready to do the Cousin Orville's, "Jackner" hosted iPod tour! What they don't get is that no one can prevent the public from creating media these days as an overlay to a place you visit. Especially with cell phones and ipods. This has been in development and coming wether they like it or not. Go get 'em Jim!

[BurningStroller]

Jim Hill got the boot.

Apparently when you're upset about people smoking in non-smoking areas, cutting in line, or just behaving badly all you have to do is tell security that they're giving an unofficial tour of Disneyland and they will take action accordingly.

http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=1356

[The Mad Hatter]

I'd throw him out too. Everything he was telling these people was probably false, just like everything else that comes out of his mouth.

[Reaver]

This whole action is ridiculous. Like him or hate him, Disney has no right to pull people from the park for something like that. What's next? Someone local has out of town family visiting, is walking them around the park, telling stories, and get booted from the park by the Disney gestapo? It's idiocy to think they have the right to control what people say in the park. If he had been charging, that I could understand. But to say it's because he had "organized" tours going on means nothing. Any time you meet people at the park or go with family, you have what could be seen as an "organized" tour.

I don't care what you think of JH, this behavior is outrageous. I'd love to see what "charges" they'd have used to get him arrested... Last time I checked, walking around telling stories isn't punishable by law. And he has an AP, so he had paid for admission - no tresspassing there. I'd have fought this tooth and nail. I'd have had this in the newspapers, local news channels, everything. I'm peeved just reading about it. But had I actually BEEN there... grrrrr...

[BurningStroller]

Disney does have the right to remove him from the park. Read the back of your admission ticket. My problem is all the people that they ARE NOT removing from the park. I'd much rather overhear Jim Hill spinning yarns about Disneyland than .... well fill in whatever you like in this space. The point is, given trash clientele that frequents the park it's a shame that someone that actually loves the place gets kicked out.

[dramaqueen]

I don't think he was kicked out (umless I read his story wrong) I think they just asked him to stop. DL security has been seriously limited in their ability to remove guests as I saw and heard about many incidents that I felt ought to have resulted in the guest's removal from the park that did not.

Again, because it is private property however, they are legally entitled to do whatever they want. I would take his article with a grain of salt unless it is corroborated by someone else who was there. One would say his impartiality on the subject is questionable and probably self serving.

[Reaver]

He said in his post that he was banned (or thought he was), and that they were going to have him arrested if he didn't stop. I'd like to know what in what he was doing could be considered a criminal offence...

I'd also like to find the stupid people that were in his tour by accident that reported him. They sould be forsed to wal around the park for a day wearing dunce caps... dolts.

[pyrateslife4me84]

That man is an idiot. He thinks the First Amendment applies when you are inside a property owned by someone else? Not quite. Disneyland is a business and can therefore kick out anyone they want to for any reason--much like a restaurant manager can refuse to serve any individual. If I owned a business, I would very quickly kick anyone out who is offering services inside of my property that both takes money away from me and trashes my establishment. If Hill wanted to stand on Harbor Blvd. and tell people crap about Disneyland, then the 1st Amendment would apply.

[Importance]

Trespassing would be the arrestable offense.

It does sound as if he has been banned:

I sort of feel like a marked man right now. That -- from here on in -- everyone but me is invited to take part in the "Happiest Homecoming on Earth." Which is kind of depressing.

I would take his story with a grain of salt as well, but it sounds plausible enough. Unfortunately, it is unlikely that we will get Disney's version of the story.

[disneyland dude]

I dont think they would be able to have him aressted but, i think they would be able to ban him because dont they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone?

[Reaver]

It's not trespassing if you have a ticket or AP... But again, what bothers me about this is what this portends for the future freedom of the DL secret police to come and shuttle you out if they don't like what you're saying... I agree with JH on this issue... Isn't free speech guaranteed in the Constitution?

[dramaqueen]

That will not happen, TRUST ME. Disneyland used to be able to kick out guests for using improper language and other offenses, but thanks to the legal department, it is very difficult to get kicked out. Security unfortunately can't do a whole lot so I don't see them suddenly getting their power back. This, I am sure, came from higher ups as it is not a normal occurance and I doubt it will become one.

[WickedQueen]

FYI ... from how I understand it ... 2 people that paid for the Walk In Walt's Footstep's Tour in FULL ($49.00) got on HIS tour. At the end of the tour they asked when they were going to see the lobby of Club 33 and where their included lunch was. From what I understand (remember this is ALL hearsay) he then told them ... oh you are on the wrong tour and then bolted! Also, from what I have been told his tour is VERY negative, and someone DID follow it. Saying things like ...Disney does this wrong ... Michael Eisner Blah blah blah ... this is wrong with Disneyland... blah blah blah. It was also said that the people who booked their tour with him were under the impression that they were getting the REAL Walk in Walt's Footstep's tour ... and so that is why! I am sure that there are other things that he was doing that was NOT kosher ... otherwise Anaheim PD would not have showed up! I am not sure if the name of his tour is close to the name of the real tour. But the fact that the departure dates are the same ... it causes a BIG problem. And if I were in charge at Disneyland ... I wouldn't want someone to take a NEGATIVE tour about the park either! Disneyland has about 5 different tours (some that are only offered during the holiday time) and ALL of the tours are AWESOME! I think that Security, Anaheim PD and any others who were involved in the situation handled it fine! (Remember this is what I think after what I had been told about the situation!)

[Nephythys]

It's not trespassing if you have a ticket or AP... But again, what bothers me about this is what this portends for the future freedom of the DL secret police to come and shuttle you out if they don't like what you're saying... I agree with JH on this issue... Isn't free speech guaranteed in the Constitution?

The Federal Gov't did not tell him to stop talking- a private corporation did. The First Amendment applies only when the Gov't tries to silence you.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

[sediment]

It's not trespassing if you have a ticket or AP... But again, what bothers me about this is what this portends for the future freedom of the DL secret police to come and shuttle you out if they don't like what you're saying... I agree with JH on this issue... Isn't free speech guaranteed in the Constitution?

You might want to read that ticket or AP again.
It's called, "Creating a disturbance." Yes, it's subject to interpretation, but a few large security guards and actual Anaheim Police personnel will be able to persuade most people to leave in this situation. And, who would the courts side with? Probably the owner who declared a disurbance was occurring on his property. Then the court would have to decide whether it was a disturbance according to the owner's actions involving others holding tours. My guess is that all those other tours being held in foreign languages have clearance by the owner to hold tours, especially in languages not offered by the owner. I would also guess that Jim Hill did not ask for permission from the owner to hold his tour.
DL is not a public square. It's private property. Private property laws should trump all other laws. If they don't, it wouldn't be worth the effort of owning property, and our capitalist society would not exist. I.e., a place like Disneyland would not have been built without some rights regarding access and removal of guests from the property.

[MasterGracey]

I think that its well within Disney's rights to kick Jim Hill out. Complaints are complaints, and the fact that his tour (a tour which he had no permission to host) got complaints to City Hall is enough for Disney to question him. The interests of the Disney Co. were flagrantly disregarded by Jim Hill... I could see if he was leading some friends around on a "tour" or some out-of-state family... but from what I understand, this was open to anybody and he apparently didn't notify people attending his "tour" that it was a non-Disney tour. I think the lack of a nametag alone isnt enough warning to tour-goers that it ISNT a Disney tour...

I just don't like this Jim Hill guy. I havent seen a single thing he's said on his website even become remotely accurate... granted, I dont read his site on a regular basis, but what I have read always reads like a fantastic look at what HE wants to happen, not what is really going to happen or what should happen...

In my honest opinion, Jim Hill is a hack and Disney has every right to kick him out of their park if HIS TOUR is causing COMPLAINTS TO DISNEY.

[The Mad Hatter]

I don't think it's an issue of freedom of speech. It's an issue of him leading a tour that people probably thought was legit, only to find out that he's full of it. He can say anything he wants, he does it all the time. Never the less...he's still a moron.