Third Gate?

[Giant Panda]

I think they'll eventually reroute Harbor and Katella out and around the 3rd gate site to reconnect it to the main property without the major roads down the middle.

My guess for the 3rd gate... a cross between Epcot and Disney Seas.

I'm not so sure. Harbor and Katella are major thoroughfares that carry traffic besides the resort-bound. Putting that traffic and infrastructure (utilities) elsewhere would be an environmental impact nightmare of biblical proportions, not to mention having to deal with Caltrans.

I would expect, at a minimum, heavily themed pedestrian overcrossings (think where DTD crosses over Disneyland Drive - you hardly realize you're on a bridge over a city street!), and if we're lucky, monorails and/or peoplemover type systems connecting the parks and hotels.

[cellarhound]

When designing DCA, Disney saw 1 more group... The NorCals. Much of DCA's design, I think, was targeted at bringing more people down from the bay area.... But, why would you travel to DCA to see NorCal or taste wine when you live in NorCal... Flawed product I think.

Being a NorCal myself, dshimel, you are out of your mind...

It isn't targeted for NorCal at all... Look at Golden Dreams... The park is targeting people who live outside of California...

I think it was made for people visiting from the East Coast with hopes that they could draw from the DVC members...

[cellarhound]

I'm just having a hard time understanding your "support" of a third gate when you (dshimel) were just arguing on another thread that the company should (that is, would make good business sense) dump the parks as they are a vrtual "black hole" (my quotes, not yours) of depreciation (among other things)....... :confused:

Giant Panda... dshimel sometimes is sarcastic... unfortunately it doesn't read well on the net... He writes at times to provide an arguement that may not be his own point of view...

[socal05]

Now that I've got some time under my belt, I think DCA wasn't a complete mistake like I once thought. Some of it is nice, but you shouldn't have a State themed park in the actual State! :-) Maybe they could have made part of it a CA theme (redwoods, etc...) and themed the rest differently.

Hard to bring "magic" to theme based on reality. "The Magic of Sunshine" ;-)

[dshimel]

dshimel,

I think somebody has hacked their way into your MiceChat account. Either that, or maybe I'm just having a hard time understanding your "support" of a third gate when you were just arguing on another thread that the company should (that is, would make good business sense) dump the parks as they are a vrtual "black hole" (my quotes, not yours) of depreciation (among other things)....... :confused:

Confused for sure....

What I said in that other thread, is that Disney could probably increase the stock price, in the short-term, by dumping the parks.

Quotes from me from the other thread....

"Now, do I want this to happen?????? HECK NO!!!!!

Would it actually increase the short-term value of the company? Unfortunatly, it is VERY likely it would!"

AND

"The parks are slow groth... Good for long-term value. Bad for short-term value. The question is, do the institutional investors that own 66% of the company want short-term stock price increase, or long-term slow growth?"




There is a HUGE difference between saying "dumping the parks would probably increase the stock price over the short-term" and that the company "should" do this..... I never said they should. I never siad it made good business sence....

I said it would give short-term gain at the cost of long-term stability.

[Giant Panda]

OK, I see your points, however American's (excuse me, I mean citizens of the US of A) usual bent when it comes to investments (and anything) is to look at the short term .... I guess I interpreted your dissertation on the merrit of selling the parks not as "should" sell, but "would" sell ........looking at the short-term benefit ........

[dshimel]

It isn't targeted for NorCal at all... Look at Golden Dreams... The park is targeting people who live outside of California...

I think it was made for people visiting from the East Coast with hopes that they could draw from the DVC members...

ZOOOOMMMMMM.... right over my head again.

People that live outside of CA, don't give a rat's behind about CA history.... They won't recognize more than a hand-full of the faces in the montage at the end..... Why on EARTH would Golden Dreams be targeted at people that don't care and don't know...

No, Golden Dreams HAD to be targeted at the people that live in CA, have some kind of pride about their history, and actually recognize the faces they are seeing in the finally....... That, or the people that designed the park are MUCH bigger idiots then I ever suspected... And I expoected they were pretty big idiots!


And, as far as brining DVC people fro the East Coast.... WHA??????

Why on EARTH would you want to attract people to DLR for 3 days that would have gone to WDW for 7-10 days?!?!?!?! You wouldn't!!!!

WDW already fills that niche... They were trying to attract a NEW niche, not canibalize one they already had. It is called product differentiation and target marketing.... BIG concepts in the typical MBA program!

They were going for the wine and art "sophisticated" crowd (Mondavi and Puck and PC history and Whoppi, and a very pretty (from a distance) roller coaster back-drop, hip and edgy entertainment) associated with San Fran and Napa.... The NorCal audience.

[dshimel]

OK, I see your points, however American's (excuse me, I mean citizens of the US of A) usual bent when it comes to investments (and anything) is to look at the short term .... I guess I interpreted your dissertation on the merrit of selling the parks not as "should" sell, but "would" sell ........looking at the short-term benefit ........

I agree we 'mercans look way to much at the short-term price. We know we're not saving enough (at all) to provide the kind of retirement we want, therefore look for ways to make unrealistically high RoI in hopes of making up the difference.

The result is that the stock market has become the Black Jack table.... It is possible to win if you REALLY know what you're doing, but most people don't, so most people lose far more than they make.


Anyway, back to the third gate.....

For long-term, slow but stable growth, I think they'll continue to add hotel rooms, expand DTD, and add a coupke more E-Tickets to DCA.... Then add a thrid gate, a second parking garage, and a bunch more, more hotel rooms.... Eventually, they'll circle back around and re-work many of the areas of DCA that work the least.... Route 66, Wharf, Farm.....

[Jspider]

I think they'll eventually reroute Harbor and Katella out and around the 3rd gate site to reconnect it to the main property without the major roads down the middle.

My guess for the 3rd gate... a cross between Epcot and Disney Seas.

I'm also unsure about the rerouting but the plans back in the day (which included Westcot) would have deffinatly had several land bridges going out to the land (the entryway should be built on the land bridges in my opinion)

I agree on the theme it should deffinatly be a cross between Epcot and Disney Seas

possibly with room for a ride like Expedition Everest from AK in some corner of the park (basicaly a park about exciting things around the world)



I'm going to dissagree with some of the posts here that say that DCA will be an overflow park and that long term it will remain as such, I think that DCA will grow and eventualy in one way or another have enough attractions to warrent a full day at that park (and that one day might only be ten years away)

[cellarhound]

People that live outside of CA, don't give a rat's behind about CA history.... They won't recognize more than a hand-full of the faces in the montage at the end..... Why on EARTH would Golden Dreams be targeted at people that don't care and don't know...

No, Golden Dreams HAD to be targeted at the people that live in CA, have some kind of pride about their history, and actually recognize the faces they are seeing in the finally....... That, or the people that designed the park are MUCH bigger idiots then I ever suspected... And I expoected they were pretty big idiots!

I disagree with you, but that's OK...

1. If it was targeted for NorCal folks why house it in the Palace of Fine Arts... if you wanted to go for realism, put an exploration sciance musium in the building... Morons...

2. After seeing that movie, you think about how much you want to move here... I already do thank you... Most NorCal's like SoCal's don't give a RIP about Cal history... Tourists however do... But if they are interested, then go see the actual places...

Your logic, dshemil is like saying DCA is for SoCal folks because they placed a "Hollywood Backlot" on it... which we both know is BS...

Originally the Grand Californian was supposed to have a DVC connection which was scrapped...

That is why I believe DCA was supposed to be for people who are non-native Californians... Like Eisner and half the Disney suits, who are from out of state with buckets of cash...

[dshimel]

2. After seeing that movie, you think about how much you want to move here...

Ummmm.... NO.

I think must people would leave Golden Dreams thinking....
1) Wow, people suck.
2) How were all those people in the montage
and
3) How can I get that 15 minutes of my life back...


Unless you live in CA....
Then it is either one of the above, or "Everyone wishes they were me and could live here..."

No, no we don't.

[Jspider]

I disagree with you, but that's OK...

1. If it was targeted for NorCal folks why house it in the Palace of Fine Arts... if you wanted to go for realism, put an exploration sciance musium in the building... Morons...

2. After seeing that movie, you think about how much you want to move here... I already do thank you... Most NorCal's like SoCal's don't give a RIP about Cal history... Tourists however do... But if they are interested, then go see the actual places...

Your logic, dshemil is like saying DCA is for SoCal folks because they placed a "Hollywood Backlot" on it... which we both know is BS...

Originally the Grand Californian was supposed to have a DVC connection which was scrapped...

That is why I believe DCA was supposed to be for people who are non-native Californians... Like Eisner and half the Disney suits, who are from out of state with buckets of cash...

I'm going to agree

it's pretty obvious that they built the park to local standards aka six flags and knotts rather then Disney type standards and they figured that they could still attract tourists via the theme (which is a gimmick and very tourist trappy in nature)

they then tried to appeal to every market except the one they already had, I mean there's nothing wrong with going for larger markets but it needed more infulstructure to support the market they already have (aka get family's in to the area and while the family might only have a few great things to see the TEEN of the family would go on all the thrills and then go away and get his friends to come back, instead family's have little to do and teens arn't interested enough to try something with the "disney" name on it)

[cellarhound]

Unless you live in CA....
Then it is either one of the above, or "Everyone wishes they were me and could live here..."

But that is what the film makers had planned to have everyone think... Of course they live here and know what a big unbelieveable lie it is...

The intended audiance is clearly someone from outside California...

Of course, who ever gave it an award needs a kick in the head....

[Giant Panda]

Something to consider:

It's been documented, or at least speculated, that DCA was created to generate additional hotel stays. If DL proper is assumed to be a two-day park, then one additional park of half-day "duration" is all that is needed to add an additional hotel night. But a third gate would need to be more than just a half-day park in order to generate an additional hotel stay.

Not that I think Disney designed DCA to be a half-day park. The first time I went there (July 3, 2001) it was packed to the gills and it took the whole day to do everything. I think they overestimated the success and popularity of their efforts .... expected 45-60 minute wait times instead of 10-20 minute waits. Cutting your line time in half makes a full-day park into a half-day park.

[disneyfreeek]

Ummmm.... NO.

I think must people would leave Golden Dreams thinking....
1) Wow, people suck.
2) How were all those people in the montage
and
3) How can I get that 15 minutes of my life back...


Unless you live in CA....
Then it is either one of the above, or "Everyone wishes they were me and could live here..."

No, no we don't.

You know I haven't even seen Golden Dreams, partly cause I don't care, partly cause I would rather be riding Screamin'. I guess next time I have to go see what you are talking about. I was born and raised in the Bay, now I live in the valley. I have never visited the redwoods, or Hollywood, or Yosemite. Maybe DCA was built for the Californian like me, who has never seen the real things??? I don't care about California history either, and I think our quarter is ugly (who the heck is John Muir??.)

[ah schucks]

You know I haven't even seen Golden Dreams, partly cause I don't care, partly cause I would rather be riding Screamin'. I guess next time I have to go see what you are talking about. I was born and raised in the Bay, now I live in the valley. I have never visited the redwoods, or Hollywood, or Yosemite. Maybe DCA was built for the Californian like me, who has never seen the real things??? I don't care about California history either, and I think our quarter is ugly (who the heck is John Muir??.)

Thats the problem with people. They don't care. About history. Events. It kills me. I pray you are being sarcastic about not knowing who John Muir is.

[disneyfreeek]

LOL nope! 4th grade was a long time ago. I know there are hospitals named John Muir.......

[ah schucks]

LOL nope! 4th grade was a long time ago. I know there are hospitals named John Muir.......

Thats somewhat insulting. John Muir was one of the foremost architects of our National Park system. A man who explored Yosemite before most other men and saw the tides of progress and his work protected natural treasures. This isn't just 4th grade stuff, its the sort of thing people should know and appreciate and pay homage to.

[Giant Panda]

You know I haven't even seen Golden Dreams, partly cause I don't care, partly cause I would rather be riding Screamin'. I guess next time I have to go see what you are talking about. I was born and raised in the Bay, now I live in the valley. I have never visited the redwoods, or Hollywood, or Yosemite. Maybe DCA was built for the Californian like me, who has never seen the real things??? I don't care about California history either, and I think our quarter is ugly (who the heck is John Muir??.)

When did they stop teaching History? John Muir kept Kaufman-Broad and the other developers out of the Yosemite Valley ... .... someone from Modesto should know better!

[cellarhound]

I don't care about California history either, and I think our quarter is ugly (who the heck is John Muir??.)

(For all you gamers in the early 90's, visions of Sam and Max, Hit the Road just popped into my mind for some strange reason... To bad Melvin isn't around to explain who John Muir is...)