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  • ModHatter
    replied
    Yeah... The merits of Star Tours and ATIS will always be debatable. What isn't debatable is that many other Tomorrowland locations would close within a few years of Star Tours' opening anyway, so we could have gotten rid of Mission to Mars instead, or maybe found some more important purpose for the Carousel Theater than office space. Maybe Magic Eye could have hosted Star Tours, and we could have gotten a 3-D Circlevision "Captain EO."

    But I guess in Eisner's world, people don't want so many rides to go on in an amusement park.

    Leave a comment:


  • MooSical Man
    replied
    Granted, I'm one of only a small minority of people who can't go on Star Tours because of motion sickness (Star Trek in Vegas:same thing) and thus have no real feelings about it one way or the other, but I really loved and miss ATIS. For others of you who miss it too, check out this site I just discovered: a virtual tour of the ride has been reconstructed.
    http://www.atommobiles.com
    Way cool!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Druggas
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom Chaney
    Thrilling rides are fun, of course. One of the major differences between Disneyland and other theme parks, though, is the fact that you can spend the day at Disneyland...never ride a ride...never spend a dime...and still have a satisfying experience.
    I just did that yesterday. DL is a state of mind, not just a "ride place".

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom Chaney
    replied
    Well... we got a lot of mileage out of this one! Final results, 2 to 1 in favor of Star Tours. The ATIS fans are a devoted lot, however. The concensus seems to be that most people would be in favor of both attractions in TL... but updated and upgraded. Thank you all for your enthusiastic participation.

    Leave a comment:


  • ModHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom Chaney
    Shameless self promotion! :lol:
    But of course! If Disney can do it, so can I. :devil:

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom Chaney
    replied
    Originally posted by ModHatter
    Speaking of multiple conclusions, don't forget to vote in the multiple-choice poll regarding what deserved the axe (if anything at all) for the home of Star Tours.
    Shameless self promotion! :lol: (I mean that in a nice way) I voted!

    Leave a comment:


  • ModHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by SilentBob66
    I'm not quite sure how Star Tours replacing ATIS blows the weenie opportunity but in CircleVision's place it doesn't,
    No one said it doesn't, that I know of.

    There are a TON of reasons why Star Tours really shouldn't've taken over the ATIS building. Not all of them are going to lead to the same conclusion.

    Speaking of multiple conclusions, don't forget to vote in the multiple-choice poll regarding what deserved the axe (if anything at all) for the home of Star Tours.

    Leave a comment:


  • SilentBob66
    replied

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom Chaney
    replied
    Originally posted by ModHatter
    Right... the point is, ATIS, with some minor effects plussing, could have remained open and very popular if it cohabitated in Tomorrowland with the brand new Star Tours taking over, say, America Sings, CircleVision, or Mission to Mars. Even EO took a lot of money to build and produce, and didn't last a decade. And its replacement? 'Nuff said.

    Star Tours, being right at the front of the land, was a bad location anyway. Disney fans are familiar with the concept of a "weenie" that draws you deeper into the park itself, or the lands off its hub. That was part of the magic of the World on the Move. Like the side streets of NOS, Tomorrowland was full of things that drew you deeper into the land. But, Star Tours is where you put your C tickets. By putting an E ticket so close to the hub, that more or less put one of the final nails in the coffins of many Tomorrowland attractions. And when attractions close, and new ones don't open in their place, attendance has no reason to do anything but drop.

    But yes, the !5 million figure and its subsequent sinking was more in relation to the general management strategy of Disneyland than it was to ATIS specifically.
    Actually, Mod, I agree with you that ATIS should have stayed and ST put somewhere else (outside the berm...underground...??) That's why grocery stores put the milk in the back. You gotta go through everything else to get what you want. For all who say ATIS was simplistic...it was a product of its times. With today's technology, it could be awesome. ST is, frankly, getting a little long in the tooth also.

    Next poll will be structured a little differently.

    Leave a comment:


  • ModHatter
    replied
    Right... the point is, ATIS, with some minor effects plussing, could have remained open and very popular if it cohabitated in Tomorrowland with the brand new Star Tours taking over, say, America Sings, CircleVision, or Mission to Mars. Even EO took a lot of money to build and produce, and didn't last a decade. And its replacement? 'Nuff said.

    Star Tours, being right at the front of the land, was a bad location anyway. Disney fans are familiar with the concept of a "weenie" that draws you deeper into the park itself, or the lands off its hub. That was part of the magic of the World on the Move. Like the side streets of NOS, Tomorrowland was full of things that drew you deeper into the land. But, Star Tours is where you put your C tickets. By putting an E ticket so close to the hub, that more or less put one of the final nails in the coffins of many Tomorrowland attractions. And when attractions close, and new ones don't open in their place, attendance has no reason to do anything but drop.

    But yes, the !5 million figure and its subsequent sinking was more in relation to the general management strategy of Disneyland than it was to ATIS specifically.

    Leave a comment:


  • SilentBob66
    replied
    Originally posted by ModHatter
    Well, when I see the things DisCo does, like the way it handled the creation of DCA, it makes me want to put on my Dr. Phil bald cap and ask them, "And how's that working out for ya?"

    That's the genius of Disneyland. Even though opening day was, by many accounts, full of events that would destroy an amusement park, Disneyland was born as a THEMEpark, and given such a strong frame, and such an elegant but functional backbone that it not only survived, but it thrived. It was built for the long haul, and the folks that inherited the throne after Walt's passing had a heck of a foundation to build on. !5 million visitors per year... that bar was set way back in 89. Proper maintenance, plussing, and new attractions could have kept attendance at 15 million, and maybe climbed high above it. But, closing ATIS instead of America Sings or Mission to Mars was like amputating the good leg instead of the bad. And because the bad leg was still attached, the disease kept spreading through Tomorrowland.

    Sometimes you've just gotta love that Disney Comapny...
    *scratches head*

    But if Park attendance was highest in 1989, 4 years after closing ATIS and 3 years after opening Star Tours, then.....what are you trying to say?

    Not that necessarily disagree with you, per se, I just don't quite understand the analogy nor how it fits into your argument. I liked it the old way too, and I agree that Tomorrowland has had a real dearth of imagination in at least the last 10 years, but your time and attendance figures just don't quite mesh with what it seems you're advocating.

    To me, they closed too much, too soon, and didn't have anything creative to replace what was taken out (replacing Mission to Mars with a pizza joint? Replacing America Sings with a net cafe/arcade?). They've stifled innovation and creativity in Tomorrowland, and it's basically killed the spirit of that land.

    Leave a comment:


  • ModHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by Ghostbuster626
    This is exactly why the Walt Disney Company ignores your pleas and does the total opposite of what the fans want.
    Well, when I see the things DisCo does, like the way it handled the creation of DCA, it makes me want to put on my Dr. Phil bald cap and ask them, "And how's that working out for ya?"

    That's the genius of Disneyland. Even though opening day was, by many accounts, full of events that would destroy an amusement park, Disneyland was born as a THEMEpark, and given such a strong frame, and such an elegant but functional backbone that it not only survived, but it thrived. It was built for the long haul, and the folks that inherited the throne after Walt's passing had a heck of a foundation to build on. !5 million visitors per year... that bar was set way back in 89. Proper maintenance, plussing, and new attractions could have kept attendance at 15 million, and maybe climbed high above it. But, closing ATIS instead of America Sings or Mission to Mars was like amputating the good leg instead of the bad. And because the bad leg was still attached, the disease kept spreading through Tomorrowland.

    Sometimes you've just gotta love that Disney Comapny...

    Leave a comment:


  • Ghostbuster626
    replied
    This is exactly why the Walt Disney Company ignores your pleas and does the total opposite of what the fans want.

    Leave a comment:


  • gibbage
    replied
    Originally posted by innerSpaceman
    Yes, projected images of frozen comet chunks is far more imaginative. Oh yes.
    Im glad we can agree on at least that.

    Leave a comment:


  • ModHatter
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom Chaney
    I explained the reason for the either/or/neither quality of the poll in the first post. I'd love to have all the old rides and the new rides too. I think we all know that if there was an option to have both rides...everyone would probably have just voted for that one and we'd have missed out on all this stimulating debate.
    Yes, you explained your reasons, but they don't hold up.

    And I think you just summed up my point so nicely. If there was an option, we would want to have both rides.

    Would we say the same if Star Tours had taken over Circlevision? Carousel Theater? Mission to Mars? Space Stage?

    Why compare apples and oranges, when they're both great fruit, and there's a strawberry, a banana, a kiwi, and a lemon to throw into the comparison?

    Leave a comment:


  • innerSpaceman
    replied
    Yes, projected images of frozen comet chunks is far more imaginative. Oh yes.

    Leave a comment:


  • gibbage
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkS01

    ATIS is an ORIGINAL ride with IMAGINATION.
    Spinning cardboard snowflakes in a cold room is not very imaginitive.

    Leave a comment:


  • innerSpaceman
    replied
    gibbage, I'm sorry that you missed what I thought was the obvious tongue-in-cheekiness of my post. Though I personally love Adventure thru Inner Space (d'uh), I am perfectly content for Star Tours fans to outnumber those of us who share my opinion.

    Ghostbuster626, the ludricrousness of your comparison of Star Tours to Pirates of the Caribbean makes any response to your assertions of relative quality a moot point.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom Chaney
    replied
    Originally posted by ModHatter
    ... why is this an either/or/neither question? Looking at the rides that closed so soon after ATIS, isn't it possible that BOTH rides could have peacefully coexisted, and improved the ride mix of Tomorrowland? Clearly, it COULD have happened that way, so now it's just a matter of debating whether it SHOULD have.
    I explained the reason for the either/or/neither quality of the poll in the first post. I'd love to have all the old rides and the new rides too. I think we all know that if there was an option to have both rides...everyone would probably have just voted for that one and we'd have missed out on all this stimulating debate.

    Leave a comment:


  • DsnyFvr
    replied
    Atis

    Originally posted by Ghostbuster626
    OK who were the 3 clowns who voted they liked ATIS better than Star Tours?
    I AM one of those clowns !!
    and I will explain why I voted that way...

    ATIS is an ORIGINAL ride with IMAGINATION. When was the last time an origanl ride with kind imagination was installed at DL ? Its been a long time !! ST is a good ride but SERIOUSLY needs updating. I might be wrong, but I dont think it would be a big budget expense to update the film every 2-3 years.
    I would love to see ATIS brought back. With all the technological advances today Im sure they could make some really cool effects !!

    Leave a comment:

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