Paint is not enough

[Kevie]

I am making a LONG thread about Tomorrowland here, I already know there's millions of these. Sorry.

**
I was thinking, is paint in Tomorrowland enough? Basically, Buzz Lightyear, Nemo Submarines, and Paint are the only changes lately (Nemo is still rumor), and yet everyone says Tomorrowland is fixed. Is paint and a new ride fixing the land?

We still have many deep rooted problems in the land: Peoplemover track (aside from rumors, nothing happening there), Innoventions (not that bad but wastes alot of space), Redd Rocket's (it's a cool place but how about a real ride there), etc.

Blue paint, as refreshing as it looks, cannot erase all that. It simply conceals it more.

That's not to say I don't like the newer look of Tomorrowland. It really does look very good. Much better. But Tomorrowland has just not reached its potential...EVER. And right now, it's very far from reaching it.

Here are my one by one ideas for fixing and renovating Tomorrowland to make it a futuristic, NON CARTOON, land as it had been intended.

BUZZ LIGHTYEAR ASTRO BLASTERS--As it's a cartoon (and this is not Fantasyland), it doesnt deserve space here. Remove it--and put in something like a Tron darkride.

STAR TOURS--This actually works in Tomorrowland, but it needs a new film. Perhaps it could be turned into Storm Rider (like from Tokyo).

STARCADE--Reopen the second level and make it all free, and you play the games via a card, like at many arcades. Not only is it more convienient to not have to carry loads of coins, but it would also increase attendance. Okay this probably wouldn't happen but.

SPACE MOUNTAIN--Nothing needs to be done, I don't think. It hasnt reopened yet.

REDD ROCKETS--Put in a beautifully updated Mission to Mars. Redd's can fit somewhere else without wasting attraction space.

INNOVENTIONS--Put the Carousel of Progress on the bottom level as the star attraction, and let Innoventions keep the top. That's fair.

AUTOPIA--Make it futuristic. Paint is not enough--although the cars look sleek, they don't look futuristic at all.

SUBMARINES--Just give the original idea a major overhaul--new spiel, effects, etc.--and don't install Nemo. I'm sorry, but he's not futuristic.

PEOPLEMOVER TRACKS--Put in Rocket Rods again. They were much more kinetic and added alot more feeling to Tomorrowland than the snail speed Peoplemover.

CLUB BUZZ--Well, it looks so much better now. Remove that stupid pole next to it. Make it JUST THE STAGE, no stupid decor.

ASTRO ORBITER--I don't particularly see why everyone wants it back up high. They only say that because it's gone. I never saw adults gleefully queueing up for this one without kids when it was high up. So just leave it where it is and make it silver and red, return it to its old theme.

MONORAIL--New trains. Otherwise this is fine.

MOTOR BOAT CRUISE--Okay, this isn't Tomorrowland. But just reopen it!

HONEY I SHRUNK THE AUDIENCE--Put in Alien Encounter. No, it isn't too scary, if you have the correct warnings or a height limit imposed.

What do you all think? I've made Tomorrowland futurustic and not cartoony.

[mouseketeer007]

Don't get rid of Redd Rockets!!!! No!!!!! I could live without the Club Buzz food though.

[Disney Analyst]

Tomorrowland has reached huge success with the buzz lightyear astro blasters... that ride really isn't fantasy land type ride... Like look at the other rides, snow white, mr toads, peter pan, pinnochia... then you add in buzz lightyear? I say leave buzz

[Kevie]

Redd Rocket's--Never said it had bad food. I just said it is taking up alot of space.

Also Buzz Lightyear alone is not enough. And it's a PIXAR CARTOON!! I think that despite its popularity, this ride should not be in Disneyland. I guess it can't go in Fantasyland either, so just remove it. It really, really has no staying power.

[Tom Chaney]

A lot has been made about attractions in TL that aren't futuristic. Let's take a look at the history of TL. The submarines were never futuristic. No one complained. Adding a Nemo overlay really doesn't change anything except what you see out the window while taking the same ride as always. Autopia was never futuristic. It's always just been a fun ride for kids and adults. Circlevision certainly wasn't futuristic. It was a great attraction in its time, but was really just a movie. Carousel of Progress and America Sings certainly weren't very futuristic but everyone loved them. The atmosphere and architectural theming of TL has always been futuristic, but the attractions were often more about Today than Tomorrow. Some were, of course, very futuristic. At least enough to validate the theme. I think that as Disneyland "wonks" we sometimes tend to put too fine a point on things while the average guest is probably just thinking, "Hey, let's to over to Tomorrowland and ride the Autopia!"...not because it's a futuristic attraction but because that's just where it is located. (And without really connecting that they've probably spent the last hour on Interstate 5 getting there.) In film and theatre there's a concept called "suspension of belief." I think you'll find it at work on many levels in Disneyland. Lines are blurry sometimes.

[Kevie]

Circlevision's movies themselves could have been futuristic, but weren't. They were about America and China. WTF did that have to do w/ Tomorrowland or the future?

[DisneyFunGuy]

Tomorrowland is looking great and attendance is certainly picking up in that land, which is wonderful to see! And I know it'll only get better as times moves on.

As for the rides/attractions in that land, I say keep BUZZ, cuz it's a big winner for so many guests! Bring back the People Mover, cuz that was nice to go on for a relaxing trip thru Tomorrowland. Keep Redd Rocket, they have the best Italian food in the Park.

There's only 5 things I would LOVE to see change...

#1. Take out Astro Orbitor and put it on the top platform where the Rockets used to ride so high & proud. Heck, they could reconstruct that platform to make it work for AO.

#2. Get rid of those horrible looking gold spears that are located in the enterance to Tomorrowland...I've never liked them! I always enjoyed the open-ness of the walkway into Tomorrowland when they had those beautiful floral gardens on both sides! But, if those spears have got to stay, then why not make them look more like *ice crystals*...perhaps with some cool looking neon lights inside them? Something that's more bright than the gloomy gold.

#3. Get rid of Innoventions and use that building for something more exciting, like a D or E ticket attraction.

#4. Update the Tomorrowland Terrace food/dance area. And by all means, get rid of the Club Buzz theme stage.

#5. Update Star Tours!!

#6. Replace HISTA and put in a new 3D movie that's exciting!

I love the idea of the SUBS coming back, but I personally think the theme should be around The Little Mermaid, NOT Nemo! And of course, once Space Mountain opens up again, that'll really be BIG, I'm sure!

So even tho the *look* of Tomorrowland is really improving, Disney is still needing to get the rides/attractions back up to par. And thankfully, they're finally starting to realize that and doing something about it. I'm confident that area, too, will improve greatly...in time! <sooner than later, preferably>

Patrick

[TMproductions]

A lot has been made about attractions in TL that aren't futuristic. Let's take a look at the history of TL. The submarines were never futuristic. No one complained. Adding a Nemo overlay really doesn't change anything except what you see out the window while taking the same ride as always. Autopia was never futuristic. It's always just been a fun ride for kids and adults. Circlevision certainly wasn't futuristic. It was a great attraction in its time, but was really just a movie. Carousel of Progress and America Sings certainly weren't very futuristic but everyone loved them. The atmosphere and architectural theming of TL has always been futuristic, but the attractions were often more about Today than Tomorrow. Some were, of course, very futuristic. At least enough to validate the theme. I think that as Disneyland "wonks" we sometimes tend to put too fine a point on things while the average guest is probably just thinking, "Hey, let's to over to Tomorrowland and ride the Autopia!"...not because it's a futuristic attraction but because that's just where it is located. (And without really connecting that they've probably spent the last hour on Interstate 5 getting there.) In film and theatre there's a concept called "suspension of belief." I think you'll find it at work on many levels in Disneyland. Lines are blurry sometimes.

Sorry about taving the whole post in a quote but finaly a person who shares the same views as me about tomorrow land :monkey:

[HuckSawyer]

But It Should Be

I enthusiastically agree with all of those who are calling for an update of the TL Terrace (I refuse to refer to it as Club Buzz), Innoventions, Star Tours and HISTA. And even though I had a fun time on BLAB and know that it isn't going anywhere, it isn't really a Tomorrowland attraction.

Tomorrowland has to be real and impressive if it's ever going to have the energy and appeal that it had in the 60s and 70s. The problem is: there are already too many alternative spaces that are way cooler than Tomorrowland. The parking structure, for example, is way more contempoarary than anything in the park. Disney just has to have the will to think outside the box and dream big--just like they used to.

[Kevie]

HuckSawyer: that's exactly my opinion! Wow! You get a positive rep pooint for being so RIGHT in my opinion.

[Ghostbuster626]

Instead of talking about it on message boards over and over I think we need to figure out a way to voice our frustrations to either the Walt Disney Company, TDA, or to Roy Disney who will then rely lay it to the company. Now I know you cant send them YOUR ideas for attractions however I dont see the problem with sending the message that we, the disney fans and holders of the almighty dollar, are extremly dissatisfied with the state of tommorowland and we want more attractions open, etc.

[Momzilla59]

MOTOR BOAT CRUISE--Okay, this isn't Tomorrowland. But just reopen it!

HONEY I SHRUNK THE AUDIENCE--Put in Alien Encounter. No, it isn't too scary, if you have the correct warnings or a height limit imposed.

Motor Boat Cruise - Ain't gonna happen. It's going going gone.

HISTA -I'd replace it with another, more up to date 3D movie. Honey I Shrunk the Kids came out in 1989. It's getting a little long in the tooth. Alien Encounter STUNK. It was a very poor version of "It's Tough to be a Bug". It's not too scary, it's just Dumb.

Star Tours is definitely in need of an update - but I find it very interesting I've not heard any clamor for a ride based on the latest releases.

Tron was an interesting theme and somewhat futuristic - in 1982. Technology has bypassed it. If you make any ride based on future tech, you have to constantly upgrade it to keep it futuristic. For a dark ride, Tron would have to be Fast. Racing roller coasters anyone?

It would be very interesting to have some sort of DisneyQuest rides - design and ride your own coaster was a Blast and you can have it as mild or wild as you like.

I wish they weren't doing a Nemo overlay on the subs, but if that's what it'll take to get them back, I'm for it.

You're right in wanting more than paint, we all do. It's just not going to happen overnight.

[Fantasmico!]

paint is a good first step. the rest will require vision, imagination and huge dollars. if matt has a commitment to upgrading the park, the tl redo will happen. i hope the redone tl will be better than any of us can imagine.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Uhhhmmm, they just spent HOW MUCH to add Buzz Lightyear ? ? ?

Be realistic people, its not going to be "moved" to Fantasyland.

Star Tours is never gonna be "moved" to DCA either as some have suggested. It would be great to see a new show based on EPISODE III so we could have all the Star Wars characters from both series in one movie.

Honey I Bored The Audience is the WORST attraction in all of Disneyland, in my opinion. I'd prefer to see it closed and empty than continue any longer.

I think its still running at DISNEY MGM in Florida and in Tokyo and Paris too. I know that no MAGIC EYE THEATER was built in Hong Kong, I wonder if they are going to do another Futuristic show again so it can work in Discoveryland Paris and Tomorrowland Anaheim and Tokyo. It would need to have a movie tie in to be shown in FLORIDA though too. Too bad Michael Jackson got himself into so much trouble, Captain EO was actually really entertaining but I think we know why that one disappeared from the ATTRACTIONS list.

[melmel]

BUZZ LIGHTYEAR ASTRO BLASTERS--As it's a cartoon (and this is not Fantasyland), it doesnt deserve space here. Remove it--and put in something like a Tron darkride.

Boo-- who gives a flip if it's a cartoon. Have you been on it? It's a GREAT ride. It's a ton of fun, incredibly interactive, and very DISNEY to me.

Plus, Tron is 20 years old. Why do you think the Peoplemover became outdated?!

Kids barely know what a Mickey Mouse cartoon is anymore. What makes you think they know Tron?

As much as you say "Disneyland is for everybody-- not just kids" you can't just EXCLUDE kids from it. Tron is a ridiculous idea for a ride. I'm 18. It came out four years before I was born. I have never seen it. And I'm pretty sure that at least 90% of other kids my age and younger are the same.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Boo-- who gives a flip if it's a cartoon... Tron is 20 years old... Kids barely know what a Mickey Mouse cartoon is anymore. What makes you think they know Tron?

As much as you say "Disneyland is for everybody-- not just kids" you can't just EXCLUDE kids from it...

And I'm pretty sure that 75% of Disneyland Resort guests would not be spending the time, money and energy to explore Disneyland if it werent for their KIDS who they are trying to impress / treat.

CM Matt, dont cater to the 55 y.o. single riders who just want INNER SPACE back. It was so lame. Even Body Wars in Star Tours would be better than a return to the ATOM MOBILES. I cant believe I even remember that attraction. It was like a Haunted Mansion through Science Class.

I think some folks are just purely nostalgic for younger happier times.

But the People Mover, Rocket rods or something does need to come back.

[Disneylandrocks55]

Color DOES add a TON to it though. Yea, it doesn't make up for all the lost rides, but a simple color change can open things up so much! Look how much bigger space mountain looks white, and how more open and futuristic things look white. I grew up with Tomorrowland brown and gold, that's all I knew. ( I was to young when it was white to remember anything about it) So all I've seen is pictures. Looking at Tomorrowland white and blue looks awsome to me from the hub! Seeing all the white tall spires gleeming above the land in the distance looks so cool. I never even noticed the spires when they were brown.

But I agree with most of your post, they need to put more rides! I say they get rid of Honey I shrunk the audiance and put in a new and improved version of Journy through innerspace. One that's more exciting and maybe has some speed to it. Something that has fun and adventure and is not just "adventures through your science book". ^^^

I REALLy want to be an Imagineer when I'm a few years older!! I have drawn up so much drawings for Tomorrowland. I think they really need to clear out the inoventions building and put something awsome in it, maybe an E Ticket. They got rid of Country Bears because the lack of attendance, look at the attendance of Inoventions!! They either need to make it cooler with a better more attractive facade and a taller sign, or just get rid of it all together.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

...Look how much bigger space mountain looks white, and how more open and futuristic things look white. I grew up with Tomorrowland brown and gold, that's all I knew. ( I was to young when it was white to remember anything about it) So all I've seen is pictures. . .
I say they get rid of Honey I shrunk the audiance and put in a new and improved version of Journy through innerspace. One that's more exciting and maybe has some speed to it. Something that has fun and adventure and is not just "adventures through your science book". ^^^

Trust me, if you're not old enough to remember Space Mountain WHITE you never went on Adventures through Inner Space. It had one gimmick, they made you feel like you got shrunk down to the size of an atom before you went on the adventure. The gimmick was repeated by a series of Lily Tomlin movies about The Incredible Shrinking Woman. Then by Honey I Shrunk The Kids the movie. Then the sequels, the play area at Disney MGM and finally the SHRUNK THE AUDIENCE and drove this concept into the grave.

I mean I say bring Body Wars from EPCOT where you ride in a Star Tours vehicle and get shrunk and injected into a human body through arteries and veins. If you're really clamoring for the experience rent the Lily tomlin movies where she lives in a doll house it's a real crack up.

But we dont need to keep shrinking the guests! Just their wallets.

[E Ticket]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did there not used to be an escalator bringing you up to the rooftop plaza where the entrance to Space Mountain is?

There is something about the long walk to enter Space Mountain that I just don't like. Walking way back to that area where the Fastpass machines are (past the Redd Rocket's outdoor patio) has the feel of an ugly 70's office tower lobby, with all those indoor tropical plants and the brown glass. Then you walk up the long ramp to the plaza above the HISTA theatre, and there is absolutely nothing to capture the imagination. It's like you are walking across an empty parking lot.

Perhaps if they put that escalator back, the ride line could bypass that unnecessary long walk up the ramps. The escalator itself would act as a focal point to the ride entrance. Then they could do something to make the plaza more visually interesting, and have the ride queue spiral around up there (more than it does currently). Then seal and wall up the old Space Mountain entrance between Redd Rocket's and the HISTA theatre. If you remove the theatre, those two areas combined would result in a massive space for a new ride.

Does anyone understand what I am envisioning? And am I overestimating the size of that plaza above the theatre?

[melmel]

I understand you, but what do you do when you have 100 people on a big ol' escalator and the line stops? Bowling for tourists?

You can't have a moving escalator in a queue unless you want to have a CM there to tell people when to start and stop. And by eliminating the escalator, that's one less job spot that Disney has to fill. The more money Disney saves in one place could FEASIBLY be used for something bigger and brighter elsewhere!

Although around $3000 ain't too much... that's a lot of money to be paying people to tell idiots not to get stuck in the middle of a moving escalator.