Disney's America

[Disney Analyst]

I think if overseas visitors come to the UNITED STATES on their visit, and want to see that Americanest place of pure 50s Americana -- they will go to Disneyland. And while there, I dont think they'll mind an AMERICAN park as long as it is about as loosely themed as DCA's California theme is working now.

I think if over-sea's guests are going to disneyland, that's what their doing, disneyland. When I went to disneyland, I saw nothing about america really... There were the small little thingd, but no real american theme. I know atleast half the world is p/od at america. I think a pure american park would be worse the DCA. Most Cali's hate the park because they live in california everyday, and could care less about it. Then put a full american park, and all of america will get bored with it... We don't need an museum parks, we need fun, thrilling theme parks. Let DCA expand, and grow! As I said before, rome wasn't built in a day!

[Adventurer]

There is a new ride in there called the "Goldenstate Adventure" simaler to its american counterpart this is hosted by three people who did alot for California. . John Muir, Arnold Schwartzeneger, and Ronald Regan. This 28 minute specatcular features many animatronics and is a not to be missed DCA attraction.

I almost lost my lunch here...are you kidding?

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Clearly attendance at DCA has to be Parks and Resorts Chief's main headache. They are going to have to reinvest even more money to turn the park around. It is the weakest link and unfortunately they can't solve the problem with that British woman Ann Robinson, who could just say "goodbye."

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Maybe they need to convene a "vatican council" type of meeting, with WDI and the resorts and parks chiefs.

Discuss what is stagnating, what is expensive and not cost productive, and what the real direction should be for the future of the theme parks.

Re inventing DCA could be the main focus of the meeting but they could discuss what they could work on jointly, to share development costs and create products for all the parks that really suit their needs.

OR NOT. just a thought.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

I think if overseas visitors come to the UNITED STATES on their visit, and want to see that Americanest place of pure 50s Americana -- they will go to Disneyland. And while there, I dont think they'll mind an AMERICAN park as long as it is about as loosely themed as DCA's California theme is working now.

I see a small handful of historical/patriotic attractions added to the mix and then ultimately its a theme park competing in 2005's marketplace, so like it or not it will continue to bring in clones of off the shelf attractions that bring in guests.

Until the park is at least as popular as Disney MGM or EPCOT, I think DCA needs to continue building... I don't really see it as good money going after bad, they need to stabilize the park and make it a destination in its own right. Its not even well known in Los Angeles, those who've been mostly have negative opinions of it, and most people only go there as a free twofer ticket or because it's included with the Disneyland passport. Not optional, included. So right now people go there thinking "why not, its free". It's got to be sucking all of Disneyland's profits dry.

[pyrateslife4me84]

I have interest in California Adventure because it shows a lot of the beauty of the state, particularly in Golden State. Disney's America was to be a look at the history of the US, which most international guests have no interest in seeing. They would be far happier riding Soarin' over California, with its beautiful landscapes, going into HPB for fun Disney attractions that sort of fit the theme, like the Tower of Terror and Monsters, Inc, and riding Screamin' in Paradise Pier. I know there has been no sort of formal poll, but I have definitely noticed that a greater proportion of non-Californians enjoy Cali Adventure than do California residents, with many explaining (not all) that they don't need to go to Hollywood in DCA when the real Hollywood is an hour away. The same effect would be possible w/ an America park, only it would be a lot of people all around the US non-interested. One of the things that makes Disney so awesome is that it lets you see things you can't always see, which is what DCA is moving toward. Really, a park about America could only really appeal to international guests, but given their distaste of the USA, I think it would be all-around unsuccessful. Beyond that, it will never happen. Disney is not about to admit defeat and change the theme of the park. Most of the domestic parks (if not all) received less than perfect reviews shortly after opening, and they continued with the original theme and it worked out in the end.

[DoppelV]

And I don't feel as if a total american park about america would be a good way to bring in crouds... It makes it look as if america's got an ego... I am canadian, and I love america, I'd love to move down their, but an fully american park, american theme, is not disney, and would not attract me to it...

But when DCA is it's a total loss and should be removed? Fix it up, and let it flourish!

What do you mean American theme is not Disney? Disneyland, just as the dedication plaque spells out, was founded to teach the history, values, and promise of America! Disneyland used to be all America. When Tomorrowland opened, it was opened by the Boy Scouts of America. When the New Tomorrowland opened in the sixties, American astronauts were there. Frontierland is based on the American frontier.

Now, over time, Disneyland has begun to lose that theme, but the overall point here is that Disneyland was built to showcase America.

Now here's an interesting point. International guests do not want to see an America park... Well, I'm from America, and I really have no interest in seeing a California park. It's the same premise just on an even lower scale. Why would a British guest prefer to see a California park over an entire America park?

BTW, this idea is not unique. Plans were nearly concluded for a Disney's America over a decade ago. Chances are, if the Virginian population had not interviened, there probably would be a Disney's America today.

DCA cannot be merely "fixed up". Disneys been trying to do that since the park's opening, and as of at least July 2004 (my last time there) attendance was still far from stellar. TOT made MGM huge when it opened, I remember going there the year it did. It just isn't doing it for DCA.

I guess what I see is, why should people make the investment to go to California and see a recreation of the state when they can make the same investment and see the actual state for themselves?

[ModHatter]

I think that's the point. DCA had a great premise at heart, but it was trying too hard to be the un-Disney Disney park, so it alienated a lot of the Disney fans. But, because it's a Disney park, it didn't create the kind of attractions its target audience are riding at Six Flags parks, either. It tried to hard to have a little bit of something for everyone, which is a noble enough goal, but you want each ride to have something for everyone. Instead, you have a few rides for one group only, and a few rides only for another group, etc. For too many people, that only adds up to just a few rides for such a big and spread-out park.

If DCA would commit to presenting California Adventure as a one-of-a-kind journey through the history of this exciting land, and creating unique attractions instead of allowing the place to be a catch-all clone park, it could be a roaring success in just a few years' time.

[Disney Analyst]

For some reason, I feel Disney's America would do little to attract international crowds, which would of course be DL's goal in expanding to have more hotels and a 3rd theme park, in the hopes of moving closer to WDW's set up. It is no secret that most of the world is not particularly happy w/ the USA. I personally think they are going in the right direction with rides that are very disney-fied but fit with the Cali theme.

I totally agree, I like DCA, when I went in 2001 it was so much fun, that rollercoaster was a blast! It's still a fairly new park, and needs time to grow. And I don't feel as if a total american park about america would be a good way to bring in crouds... It makes it look as if america's got an ego... I am canadian, and I love america, I'd love to move down their, but an fully american park, american theme, is not disney, and would not attract me to it... I bet you could do a survey in international countrys, and alot of people would agree, it's not an eye catching, I want to go to this park kind of thing... I say leave DCA, but let it improve, let it grow... Rome wasn't built in a day, neither was disneyland for that matter! Disneylands improved over the years, and also gotten worse, but now it's re-improving! When disneyland was falling down a dark hole to doom, you didnt say, remove it and replace it... But when DCA is it's a total loss and should be removed? Fix it up, and let it flourish!

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

I agree that removing the CA theme is impossible and something Disney would never do. Best to just carry on, make it work, and pretend they planned it that way all along.

Well I agree with the guy who posted this thread. Thank you to who ever posted the Al column again, I remember reading it now, too bad it never went any where.

Maybe Al should RE LAUNCH the RE THEME campaign.

A lot of us think it's still a terrific idea. Better now than shotgun reaction right after 9-11, when there would have been a Hall of Presidents named Bush attraction. Today, I think they could come up with a patriotic salute to the United States with a simple overlay and extension into Timon Lot.

It could be enough of wide theme to encompass just about anything Disney wanted to come up with.

And SOARIN could shoot new scenes over the rest of the United States for version 2.0 (which would make more sense in EPCOT than Soarin' over California.) I guess there, they'll just neglect to mention everywhere you are flying over was in California.

[ModHatter]

This is really not worth arguing about... I have been to Epcot enough over the past number of years to know that World Showcase is only busy after they close 90% of Future World at 7 pm, forcing people to line up for IllumiNations. To say they measure the success of an area by number of complaints and not by crowd levels is absolutely absurd. An area may be nice to look at, but if no one goes there, it's not successful and of course won't register many complaints because there are never any lines to irritate people at the one good ride there. Most of Future World's complaints stem from long lines and Test Track's constant break downs. And yet the crowds still flock. World Showcase has not received new attractions not because Disney has not wanted to add them, because they have, but for lack of a sponsoring nation based on WS's policy that every pavillion have a significant portion of its funding come from the host nation, and most possible host nations have refused to pay more money (why? Because they get nothing out of the sub-par attendance at WS and a non-existent flow of guests past the travel counters for the host countries). Meanwhile, Nestle sponsored Soarin' because they felt they had something to gain from that, much like HP (Compaq before that) sponsoring MS. Arguing WS is successful b/c nothing has been added since 1989 is like arguing Paradise Pier is successful. Or Walt Disney Studios Paris.

Hmmm... No new attractions since 2001 vs no new attractions since 1989... you are able to see the difference, right?

Besides, DCA is, at best, a half-day park which has added an E ticket and a whole kiddie land, and is preparing to add back a revamped dark ride, all in its first five years... If WS was doing so badly, which MY experiences over the past 17 years do not back up, then they would change the policy about sponsorship.

Meanwhile, complaints about Future World stem not from Test Track breakdowns (since that's only been an issue for the last 7 years, and Epcot has had a bad rep a lot longer than that), but from being too edutainment-y, feeling too much like a giant commercial, and just being boring in general. Which explains why pretty much every pavilion there has undergone such dramatic changes

Anyway, since no one else is debating the validity of Epcot not being an example of contemporary and edgy working, no point my continuing this sidebar.

[pyrateslife4me84]

For some reason, I feel Disney's America would do little to attract international crowds, which would of course be DL's goal in expanding to have more hotels and a 3rd theme park, in the hopes of moving closer to WDW's set up. It is no secret that most of the world is not particularly happy w/ the USA. I personally think they are going in the right direction with rides that are very disney-fied but fit with the Cali theme.

[DoppelV]

See my post from a few months ago:

http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=739

Nice Ideas! I promise I didn't see your post before posting this thread.

[DoppelV]

Niyxstyx, you're not the first to have this idea. In fact, in the week after 9/11/01 Al Lutz wrote an article on Mouseplanet about this very same topic which can be found here: http://www./dca/america.htm

Sorry, I must have missed that article :o .

I still think that an America overlay would work, and I disagree that it would be prohibitively expensive. In the overlay that I worked on, to begin, no rides would need to be removed or rebuilt. All of the changes would be cosmetic, facades and whatnot.

There is a new found interest in America, especially with all of the post 9-11 patriotism. People still flock to various places around the nation to be tourists in their own country.

Disneyland itself is a good tribute to America, but there can be more.
By changing a park's theme, Disney is not admitting defeat, they are simply making a corporate restructuring, it happens all of the time.

Granted, I know these changes will never be made, and DCA will remain indefinetly. Mainly this thread was made on a whim, I had a strike of imagination and I wanted to get input. Some ideas just aren't good/realistic/feasible/etc., but when it comes to DCA, I just wanted to give my two cents.

BTW, I think Epcot is one of Disney's best parks, I'm sorry that most people just can't see it that way.

[IndyJn511]

It would take a major renovation to change it to America. It would cost just as much as building the park from scratch but that would be necessary to get the park looking awesome.

But would you rather them spend the money on short-term fixes or a long lasting fantastic park? I myself love the idea!

[pyrateslife4me84]

This is really not worth arguing about... I have been to Epcot enough over the past number of years to know that World Showcase is only busy after they close 90% of Future World at 7 pm, forcing people to line up for IllumiNations. To say they measure the success of an area by number of complaints and not by crowd levels is absolutely absurd. An area may be nice to look at, but if no one goes there, it's not successful and of course won't register many complaints because there are never any lines to irritate people at the one good ride there. Most of Future World's complaints stem from long lines and Test Track's constant break downs. And yet the crowds still flock. World Showcase has not received new attractions not because Disney has not wanted to add them, because they have, but for lack of a sponsoring nation based on WS's policy that every pavillion have a significant portion of its funding come from the host nation, and most possible host nations have refused to pay more money (why? Because they get nothing out of the sub-par attendance at WS and a non-existent flow of guests past the travel counters for the host countries). Meanwhile, Nestle sponsored Soarin' because they felt they had something to gain from that, much like HP (Compaq before that) sponsoring MS. Arguing WS is successful b/c nothing has been added since 1989 is like arguing Paradise Pier is successful. Or Walt Disney Studios Paris.

[ModHatter]

World Showcase works? Having observed crowd patterns there for the last 16 years, I would say definitively that Future World is FAR more popular than World Showcase. There is not a single extremely popular attraction in World Showcase--Maelstrom is the closest, and its popularity is waning with wait times of maybe 30-40 minutes in the middle of summer. Compare that to Test Track, Mission: SPACE, and now Soarin's wait times. Even Livin' with the Land has longer queue lines. Epcot sees about twice as many visitors annually as DCA, so yes, it works fine.

Please, for how big Epcot is, it should be seeing far more than twice DCA's less-than-planned attendance.

World Showcase doesn't measure its popularity in queue lengths. It measures its success in how many people converge on each land, and how guests feel afterward. And, while I have heard mostly complaints about this or that aspect of Future World, World Showcase seldom garners any negativity.

Surely, anyone reading this knows that Test Track, M:S, and Soarin' are fairly recent additions to Epcot, and therefore don't adequately represent 20+ years of its history. More importantly, World Showcase, though it has many shows and a minor water ride, has but one major ride, Maelstrom, and that was new during my first visit more than 15 years ago. Tell me how long the lines for any C-D ticket would be if it were the only major ride in the park, and it was nearing 20 years old. But Epcot isn't an amusement park. It's a two-day THEME park, and the World Showcase portion is captivatingly themed, and people seem to love wandering through shops, seeing street performers, and being able to enjoy a little spazie while watching people do the Birdie Dance, then later on grabbing some orange chicken and watching Illuminations. The most likely reason it hasn't gotten the flurry of E tickets Future World has, is that it is meeting or exceeding expectation, and has been doing so for quite a while. Without being hip and edgy.

[VWSpawn]

Am I the only one who likes DCA? :confused: It has lots of room for growth and it isnt really ever crowded. I agree that somethings need to be changed but the park in general I like.

[pyrateslife4me84]

I agree that removing the CA theme is impossible and something Disney would never do. Best to just carry on, make it work, and pretend they planned it that way all along.

[Olympicnut]

See my post from a few months ago:

http://www.micechat.com/showthread.php?t=739