Taking corporate synergy too far?

[Walt Jr.]

POTC! Pixar! Too many sucessful movies being made into attractions! Do you think this Rivers of America rumor/plan is another example of the growing problem of corporate synergy too far? Before walt came there was no Cinderela 2 and no other sequels. Now succesful movies are getting out of control in both theaters and parks. The idea is nice but the fact is it obstructs all the elements of Frontierland and CC. It does not blend like it does now with NOS.

[Asterix]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

I totally get what you're feeling, but...

Disneyland was built on synergy and marketing. Otherwise it wouldn't exist. This is well-documented so I'm not going to recap it.

All artists have to figure out a balance that will bring in money to allow their work to exist; I'm not saying that's good, but at least in this country that's the reality. The trick is trying to keep the cash concerns from corrupting your original vision and intent, which is a constant balancing act.

People who independently make art for a living spend more than half their time on business and marketing; a minority of the time is spent actually being an artist.

Take a look sometime at the company's marketing strategies from the past; I was surprised at what I didn't remember them doing. It's just that over time we forget about all that, and only remember the parts of Disney that we like. It will be just the same with the marketing of today, it's utterly forgettable, which is just fine.

[ralfrick]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

And a few decades ago Davy Crockett and Zorro were everywhere. Walt pretty much invented the idea. Of course, one is free to not like it; I personally dislike all the sponsorship and marketing that has also been around since the beginning. But it's certainly nothing new.

Cheers.

[sediment]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

Call me when they propose "Piratin' Space Mountain."

[Rebel Justin]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

In my Business of Broadcasting class, the teacher said that it takes one network/production company to take a risk on a project (film, TV show) to start a new trend. When Toy Story came out and was a huge success, it showed production companies that Computer Generated movies can pull in big money. After that was realized by more than just Disney, almost everyone started to do CG projects. Producers see where people are trending (what they're making popular, what they're buying) then they will go towards the money. It's all about the money. I wouldn't be surprised if they attempt another attraction movie...or movie to attraction. It's where the money is right now. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

[Disney Wrassler]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

POTC! Pixar! Too many sucessful movies being made into attractions! Do you think this Rivers of America rumor/plan is another example of the growing problem of corporate synergy too far? Before walt came there was no Cinderela 2 and no other sequels. Now succesful movies are getting out of control in both theaters and parks. The idea is nice but the fact is it obstructs all the elements of Frontierland and CC. It does not blend like it does now with NOS.

Like I said before, it really doesn't obstruct anything. The connections the proposed "pirate" theme has with frontierland is through its spanish roots. It has connections with Critter Country because pirates went through southern states like Louisiana (New Orleans/French Quarters). So the connections are still there.

[cellarhound]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

I wouldn't be surprised if they attempt another attraction movie...or movie to attraction. It's where the money is right now. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

They are with Jungle Cruise...

It will fall flat...

Pirates was a trend that people wanted to follow... not making movies off attractions...

Follow the money and you will be a lemming jumping off a cliff...

[ni_teach]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

Walt did put his movies and characters into the park all the time...... HOWEVER, he also made many, many orginal creations HM and PotC to just name a few. The problem that the current managment is make is not also doing orginal attractions.

[CA_Man_In_HI]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

Walt did put his movies and characters into the park all the time...... HOWEVER, he also made many, many orginal creations HM and PotC to just name a few. The problem that the current managment is make is not also doing orginal attractions.

you took the words right out my mouth, ni_tech. There's nothing original being created at the parks anymore. I don't remember who specifically said it, but I once heard someone say, "Whenever a society or institution only looks inward, it stagnates." Perfect example of what's going on within DL.

[Disney Wrassler]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

you took the words right out my mouth, ni_tech. There's nothing original being created at the parks anymore. I don't remember who specifically said it, but I once heard someone say, "Whenever a society or institution only looks inward, it stagnates." Perfect example of what's going on within DL.

Feudalism .

[AmandasDad]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

Feudalism .

P.P.F.U.F* forever!

A place for every person
And every person in their place
Fudalism makes us strong!

*People's Progressive Fudalism United Front

[Loomis]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

While the corporate crime-fighter within me totally gets what you are saying, these changes are a necessary reality.

Some may even argue that the whole concept of a Disney 'theme park' is taking corporate synergy too far. After all, here is a place filled to the brim with rides based on movies, movies based on rides and characters, props and general trappings all designed to make you believe you have stepped out of reality and into a literal Disneyland (or a Disney World, depending on which coast you are on).

Now while the sequel issue that you raise is an interesting one, and probably better served in an off-topic discussion, it is indicative of the direction the company has been heading. However, we must remember that Disney IS a company and that means a business entity. It is there to make money for its shareholders. That means, it has to look good on the bottom line. How do you do this? Expand upon your most successful properties.

Now, my chief concern is that some of these expansions will ultimately dilute the brand. Indeed, I think that 5 Disney resorts around the world is probably too much of a good thing. However, with a few exceptions, all of these sequels and attractions have been of a fairly high quality, and as long as that is the case, then Walt's dream is not being trampled on. Walt was indeed a visionary that saw well beyond his time, but even he could not predict the rise of so many competing forms of entertainment. In this day and age, for a business to make money, they really have to concentrate on those things that make them money. This is ANOTHER reason that Disneyland will never be completed: the changing realities of popular taste.

After all, if 'Walt's original' Tomorrowland had remained, it would look pretty shoddy today (ok, don't say that it does, because that is a whole other 50 threads worth right there). All I'm saying is that like Tomorrowland, the vision of the future constantly changes, and the park has to keep up with that. Without change we wouldn't have Indiana Jones in Adventureland. I'm sure some people screamed bloody murder when that made its way into a Disney park, but it fits so perfectly it is hard to argue against it now.

I suggest we all use the scientific method of Waiting & Seeing.

[Walt Jr.]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

Like I said before, it really doesn't obstruct anything. The connections the proposed "pirate" theme has with frontierland is through its spanish roots. It has connections with Critter Country because pirates went through southern states like Louisiana (New Orleans/French Quarters). So the connections are still there.

However the time zone is realitively separate!

Although Disneyland should always be changing we shouldn't loose everything to modernization. Losing tom saywer amongst others pretty much says off with the old.

[Loomis]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

However the time zone is realitively separate!

Although Disneyland should always be changing we shouldn't loose everything to modernization. Losing tom saywer amongst others pretty much says off with the old.

True, but tastes change.

In 1955, there was an Indian Village where Critter Country is today. That had become Bear Country in 1972. We've got things like Splash Mountain and Winnie the Pooh there, both of which are incredibly popular. If the Internet had been around in 1972, no doubt they would be lamenting the loss of a 'Walt original', but as time went by, the area established its own identity.

Now, I am Mr. Nostalgia when it comes to Disneyland. I do really hate to see old things go. But I also love new technologies and Imagineering, so I also get excited when I see something new forthcoming. Losing Tom Sawyer may be saying "bye bye" to the past, but it is also saying "hello" to something new. In a way, this is less offensive than sticking in a Star Wars thing or Indiana Jones attraction into Disneyland, as the proposed new attraction is based on a film that is in turn based on a Disneyland attraction. (What did someone say about pop eating itself?)

The website Yesterland.com shows us that change is unavoidable at the theme parks. If change hadn't occured, this year's Gumball Rally would have been a lot shorter. Nobody would argue that the Flying Saucers should have been kept simply because they were made during 'Walt's time'. If Walt's original attractions are a legitimate constraint, then we wouldn't be a position to visit theme parks in Tokyo, Paris and Hong Kong.

Embrace change, brethren! Yes it means losing a small piece of the past, but it also means embracing the imagination of today and tomorrow! Surely that is closer to Walt's dream than clinging on to the past?

[Walt Jr.]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

Embrace change, brethren! Yes it means losing a small piece of the past, but it also means embracing the imagination of today and tomorrow! Surely that is closer to Walt's dream than clinging on to the past?

I understand your point but I have got to say :thumbdown ! Sorry!

[A Change In Me]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

Like I said before, it really doesn't obstruct anything. The connections the proposed "pirate" theme has with frontierland is through its spanish roots. It has connections with Critter Country because pirates went through southern states like Louisiana (New Orleans/French Quarters). So the connections are still there.

While it does....I'll repeat myself again. Why on Earth Pirates? AGAIN!

They have a freakin' band, Jack Sparrow, the ride, the multiple stores, the movies, the AAs, the upcoming AAs...it is enough!

I know Disney is a corporate company, but can they become just a bit more creative for goodness sakes. Look at how well a "Year Of A Million Dreams" has started out.

[sediment]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

I'm neither a changeophobe nor a traditionophobe.

However, change has to be "for the better." If that happens also to make money, so be it.

I don't see this as a change for the better, though. There is already a Pirates of the Caribbean attraction, if I recall correctly. And there is a Peter Pan attraction with pirates already, too. Confusion starts to settle in.

(And, if you closely, you'll see a child-like Johnny Depp doll in It's a Small World, in the Caribbean section.)

If Burbank thinks it's necessary to "dumb-down" TSI because not enough children understand the reference, then the "education can be accidentally fun" aspect is diluted even more. Heck, make a new Tom Sawyer movie. That would probably be cheaper than remaking the island. Have Jerry Bruckheimer make it, and throw references to TSI into it. With an exciting soundtrack and slow-motion, um, keelboating? scenes, it'll be a great hit, because movies based on DL attractions are always hits (when you ignore the flops).

[hollywood1939]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

While it does....I'll repeat myself again. Why on Earth Pirates? AGAIN!

They have a freakin' band, Jack Sparrow, the ride, the multiple stores, the movies, the AAs, the upcoming AAs...it is enough!

I know Disney is a corporate company, but can they become just a bit more creative for goodness sakes. Look at how well a "Year Of A Million Dreams" has started out.

You forgot the Columbia being overrun by pirates now.

[Opus1guy]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

Follow the money and you will be a lemming jumping off a cliff...

Excellent analogy! Especially in a Disney forum.

Why?

Because Disney created that whole "lemmings jumping off a cliff" popular myth. Really. See:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1081903.htm

Or just Google "lemmings suicide myth" for other sources.

That famous Disney True Life Adventure segment that depicted the lemmings jumping off a cliff...was totally staged for the cameras.

And while "staging" events in documentaries is not unheard of...that segment of this "True Life" Adventure helped to foster not science or reporting of true animal behaviour...but the explosion of a previously little known and mostly local "tall tale" myth that lemmings are somehow inclined to jumping off cliffs together often as a sort of mass suicide...into a worldwide popular myth and urban legend (they are not so inclined...but they do migrate in herds like many other species). We all have Disney to thank for basically creating that whole myth, popular phrase, and metaphor for people that blindly follow others.

So I guess you could say in Disney's case, there's a synergy between "Follow the money and you will be a lemming jumping off a cliff" and "Portray some lemmings jumping off a cliff and you might make a lot of money." Perhaps this is where the Disney bean-counters and marketing gurus got their inspiration?

[Titanfreak46]

Re: Taking corporate synergy too far?

i haven't read all the posts but it used to be corporate synergy would belong in the day parades. Example: Totally Minnie Parade, Hercules, Aladdin, Lion King, Mulan.
Now it seems its spreading over to attractions...they should just stick with the parades as corporate synergy. I remember parades were much better when they rotated them out every year anyway.